HELP-8 mo old screams hysterically before naps!

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi!

My almost 8 month old (will be in a couple of days) screams hysterically before every nap and bedtime unless I hold him on my chest. This has been going on for a couple of days. Today it was a half hour of just screaming until I held him. He used to be pretty good at self soothing to sleep. I would have a routine, place him in his crib wide awake. Sometimes I would sing a lullaby as he drifts off or sometimes he would crawl and roll around then get tired enough to just drift off. He just started Wonder Weeks Leap 6 which I hear wrecks sleep. I also hear that separation anxiety around this age peaks. I don't know what to do. I try everything but after a half hour of screaming and hyperventilating crying, I give in and hold him to sleep. My DH suggests letting him cry but I whole heartedly am against any form of CIO. I feel bad for letting him cry in his crib as I try to soothe him. I don't want to create bad habits but I also don't want an extremely OT baby either. We currently co sleep at night which I'm looking to transition very soon (I just need the extra push to do it as I enjoy it but my DH has been sleeping on the couch for the last 4 months). Is this part of the issue? He would always take naps in his crib. I'll admit sometimes I have had to apop naps if they were broken.

We are trying out a new routine for the last week. I may pull it back to a 7-7 sort of day. Here it is:

WU 7:30 am
S 10:30-11:30 am (today he finally fell asleep close to 11 and slept on me for 1.5 hrs with quick resettlr at 37 minutes)
S 2/2:30-4/4:30 (im still working on tweaking this and lengthening this nap)
BT 7:30 /8 pm

It's been an ok transition to the new routine but his naps are sort of messy which means our EaSY is not exactly like above but it's pretty close give or take 15 minutes or so.

I'm going crazy bc it's piercing crying and he is hyperventilating. Honestly, I cry Everytime bc I can't take it. Is it developmental? Am I going through a sleep regression? Is it a routine thing?

I am afraid he will forget to self soothe or something. Any advice or thoughts are much appreciated thank you!

[becj86]

It could be that he's not tired yet when you PD at 3hr A time (short for his age) and then becomes OT because he's not fallen asleep in his 'sleep window'.

Yes, could definitely be developmental and frankly, I've found with SA type disturbances they pass more quickly and LO returns fine to IS providing they get the cuddles and comfort they are asking for when they need it.

It may be worth trying an extra 15 min A time and seeing if that helps. Once the skill of self-settling is learned, it comes back quickly once the development has passed provided routine is still reasonable. Unfortunately, sometimes these leaps take a while to resolve but generally, you don't need to be too worried about losing the capacity to self-settle.

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you so much! I can definitely try 15 minutes later. My aim is to set the naps once we get optimal times for sleep. So maybe trying 15 minutes later for the am nap like:

WU 7:30 am
S 10:45-11:30?
S 2:30-4/4:30 (hopefully)
BT 7:30/8 pm

Would cutting his am nap to 45 minutes be ok or is it too short for his age?

[becj86]

It would be ok, probably - it really depends on the child.

Is there a reason you're still shooting for a 12hr night?

[JennVanessa1083]

Not in particular. I guess because he tends to sleep 11 hours but wakes up 3 times in the night. Maybe I should do less than a 12 hour night?

[becj86]

Yep, 11hr night would be more reasonable expectation at this age. If he's taking 12hr nights ok, no need to change it.

[JennVanessa1083]

So do you think I tweak my routine to reflect 11 hrs?

Not sure what that would look like really. Do I just add 15 minutes to both am and pm naps?

I do get long EMW sometimes which I think is developmental oraybw routine related. Yesterday went like this:

NW 9:33-11:05 pm (cried off and on the whole time), 2:43, 5:52 am

Total ~ 10 hrs

WU/ 7:34 am
E 7:48 am
A
E 9:30 (solids and water)
A
S 10:57-12:23 pm (A 3:23; resisting sleep.  OT from last night? Ended up having to bounce him bc screaming. Refusing naps)
E 12:24 pm
A
E 2:30 pm (solids and BM)
A
S 3:32- 4:59 pm (A 3:09; ss with shushing, woke up at 27 minutes)
A
E 5:43 pm
A
E 7:49 pm
S 8:21 pm (A 3:22; in my arms; no crying only fussing when I tried at 3 hrs A. Maybe he needs 3.5 A after good pm nap of 1.5 or more)

NW: 11:58, 3:19 am, 5:55-6:23 (can sometimes be an hour where he's wide awake despite me feeding him)

[becj86]

5:55-6:23 (can sometimes be an hour where he's wide awake despite me feeding him)

This here is another sign that the first A time needs an increase.

I think by the time you've got your A times up high enough, 11hr night will happen without adding time to naps and your EMW will probably go.

[JennVanessa1083]

Sorry just to clarify then...should continue to cap the am nap at 1 hour or for now do two 1.5 naps?

Right now I cap at 1 hour then do the pm nap 3 hours afterwards. If I do two 1.5 hour naps. I think they would both need an increase of A?

Also right now he does a 3.25-3.5 A to bed bc he's not tired enough before that. I'm wondering if I increase the first A and maybe the second A, do I reduce the A to BT?

[becj86]

Ok, so I think if you increase your first A to say 3.5hr, then have a 45min nap (much the same as a 1hr nap in terms of sleep value, just easier to wake from because of the sleep cycle length), then a 3hr A (that's the one you might shift about a bit, could be that 3:25 or even 3.5 is fine there too) followed by a nap until he wakes (or capped at 2.5hr if he keeps sleeping), then BT 3.5hr after he wakes.

You're in the early stages of the 2-1 nap transition and I think its important to keep a long nap so they're used to sleeping a solid nap without capping the nap (or they then learn to wake habitually after 1.5hr and you end up with an OT child when you go to one nap).

[JennVanessa1083]

Good point regarding the 2-1.

I can definitely give these suggestions a try.

So I'm looking at an EASY of:

WU 7:30
S 11-11:45 am
S 2:45-4:45 pm
BT 8-8:15 pm

I might shift the day to a 7 am wake up because I don't want BT too late.

[becj86]

Yeah, looks like a good plan. See how it goes.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ok so today he ended up going to sleep at 3.25 A; cried for s little but settled in 2 minutes. However, woke up after 28 minutes fussing a little but mostly for me to pick him up. He was UT right?

I should have pushed but he was so fussy. This morning he had another hour long EMW from 5:30-6:30 then up around 7:30 for the day. Reading your last post this morning I wasn't surprised as his A for his first two naps were 3:10 and both naps only lasted around an hour.

So I'm wondering since I did a 3.25 A is there a way to salvage the day so I minimize the risk of getting another EMW tomorrow?

A general question about the 2-1; does the am nap get dropped? I thought you push out morning A times until the nap gets to the afternoon. I'm just wondering how that works if I'm doing a long pm nap. Should I be doing a long am nap and short pm nap?

[becj86]

However, woke up after 28 minutes fussing a little but mostly for me to pick him up. He was UT right?

I would say a little OT, but probably mainly because he's used to going for a nap earlier, not because it was too much A time. I think these 30min naps are usually reasonably easy to resettle, so give that a go tomorrow. and you should start to see the nap lengthen out as his body gets used to it.

Maybe try a 2:45-3hr A time after that short nap and resettle any OT waking if there is one.

A general question about the 2-1; does the am nap get dropped? I thought you push out morning A times until the nap gets to the afternoon. I'm just wondering how that works if I'm doing a long pm nap. Should I be doing a long am nap and short pm nap?

There are many ways:
1. Short AM, Long PM - short Am is capped shorter and shorter til it is eliminated and Long PM moves a touch earlier initially, then stays around 6-6.5hr from WU typically.
2. Long AM, Short PM - Long AM gets pushed later and later, Short PM gets pushed later and capped. The issue with this is often you end up having to change to option 1 as the PM nap is necessary but gets refused.
3. 2 x 1hr naps - then some 1 nap days with nap in the middle of the day and others still with 2 naps - gradually increase the number  one nap days and cross fingers LO will sleep longer than 1hr. This is typically something that happens if the nap transition happens early-ish and LO is in daycare with set nap times. Its not ideal, its very messy.

You've done the most important thing WRT eliminating the EMW by pushing that first A time. That's the one thing that makes the most difference there, IME.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ahhhhh makes sense. Thank you for breaking the 2-1 transition down. Very helpful.

Ok so OT...makes sense because he resettled pretty quickly. So then should I try 3.25 again tomorrow morning so he can get adjusted to it before jumping to 3.5? Then do a 2.75-3 hr A for pm nap? Or just jump straight to a 3.5 A time for the first A?