HELP-8 mo old screams hysterically before naps!

[becj86]

Oh, so you did 3hr 15min? I thought you'd done 3hr 25min. I'd think just go straight to 3hr30 for the first A time and just be ready to resettle any OT 30min wakings. They shouldn't take more than 2-3 days to stop.

I was saying 2:45 or 3hr today after the short nap - I'd just do the routine you posted up here:

WU 7:30S 11-11:45 amS 2:45-4:45 pmBT 8-8:15 pm

And then we can tweak from there.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ok! I can definitely give it a try for a couple of days and see what we get 

I'll keep you updated!

Thank you 

[JennVanessa1083]

So this morning he had another long ENW except this time he didn't go back to sleep. He woke up at 6:30 am after 9.75hrs of sleep. I didn't feed until 7 am after trying to resettle him.

Is it a habitual EMW after a 9.75 hr night (not including NF) from not enough A in the morning? This has never happened to him which is why I'm confused.

Yesterday went like this:


NW 10:08 (did not feed), 11:15 (fed), 2:45 (fed), 5:28-6:16 (fed at the end)

Total:~11 hrs

WU 8:03 am
E 8:30
A
E 10 am (solids)
A
S 11:18- 12:25 pm (A 3:15; cried a little held my arm until drifted; took two minutes; woke up at 28; UT?)
E 12:30 pm
A
E 2:30 (solids)
A
S 3:51-5:01 pm (A 3:26; rocked; had visitors that ran over)
E 5:05 pm
A
E 6:30 (solids)
A
BF/BT 8:09 pm (A 3:07; nursed)

NW 12.52 am (fed), 3:51 (fed), 6/30 (EMW) didn't feed until 7ish

[becj86]

Yes, it can take a few days of that first A time being long enough to discourage the EMW.

Have you tried to resettle the short naps ever?

[JennVanessa1083]

Yes I resettle the short ones and am able to if they were under an hour. It's much harder to resettle after an hour. I have done it before but it doesn't work every time which throws things off a bit.

[becj86]

Over 1hr, I wouldn't bother resettling, you've not lost enough sleep there for it to be worth it and it was an UT nap.

I'd just resettle if 45min or less and even 45min, I'd only bother trying a short while since its UT, yk?

[JennVanessa1083]

I agree UT naps are impossible to settle! For me they are much worse than OT naps. I guess in that case just go for a EBT.

I can try for a few more days the routine and hopefully the EMW will disappear.

[JennVanessa1083]

I was wondering if two long EMW wakings still indicate UT? Or have I let him have to much A and now it's OT related? He's rubbing his eyes all the time so I'm wondering maybe I shouldn't be capping naps too much? Ahhhhhh Im honestly getting crazed about this.

Maybe I allowed too much day sleep (I thought he needed the added sleep since it was long EMW that morning-that was a mistake) but he woke up at 3:45 and I nursed. He tossed and turned until almost 4:30 am.  Then woke up at 5:50 am and is still awake! He's been crying off and on as I'm trying to hold off nursing since he just ate. Im about to nurse now.

Maybe this is part of the wonder weeks leap? Would the routine cause an increase of longer EMW?

Yesterday's EASY:

NW 12.52 am (fed), 3:51 (fed), 6/30 (EMW) didn't feed until 7ish

Total: 9:75 hrs

WU 6:27 am
E 7:05 am
A
E 8:50 (solids)
A
S 9:48- 11:31 am (A 3:21; self settle in 1 minute( protested a little but I put my arm next to him and he fell asleep; woke up at 33)
E 11:32
A
E 1:30 pm (solids)
A
S 2:50- 4:08 pm (A 3:19; very crabby and crying. Need shorter am nap and longer pm nap. This doesn't work. Woke up at 30 minutes
E 4:10
A
E 7:25 pm
S 7:32 pm (A 3:24; in my arms; briefly woke up at 1:15 but self settled)

I'm sorry I am hitting you with a lot wrt EMW especially since this board is around naps. Should I move this to the NW board? Or is it ok that I stay on here?

[becj86]

Has he always woken a few hours after that 4am-ish feed? Any sign or discomfort? Gassiness? Just wondering if he's taking in air at that feed and waking with gas pain 2hr later? Very common in younger LOs but still happened to my DS when he was older than this.

Happy to stay on this board, at the end of the day, i think the nap situation is causing your EMW.

You should only be capping one nap. He has to be let sleep for at least one nap per day.

Initially he will be that bit OT during the day from pushing the A after the EMW - thats what gives the impetus for him to shift the sleep into the early morning.

[JennVanessa1083]

Perhaps it could be discomfort. I do notice him passing gas throughout the night. He hasn't always woken up like this especially long NW. I'm wondering maybe it's something in my diet? He's EBF with solids twice a day. The thing is that he's wide awake. He will start babbling and at times get fussy. Even nursing doesn't always work which is where I'm confused.

I'm also thinking I wasn't capping where I should have so maybe day sleep was robbing the night sleep. He averages 14 hours a day so I think that makes him LSN right?

I do agree that I believe it's a routine issue that is causing the EMW bc this has never happened even when I started solids.

Thank you so much for continuing to help!!

[becj86]

He will start babbling and at times get fussy. Even nursing doesn't always work which is where I'm confused.

This doesn't sound like OT. DS was up to 4hr A time by 8 months, so he could need more. I just want to see how he goes for a week with that first 30min increase before you push A time more.

DYT he was UT and refusing that PM nap or OT? If UT, then its worth thinking about short AM/long PM but its a bit of a gamble early on in the transition as its nice to be sure of one good nap in a day, yk?

[JennVanessa1083]

Ok I definitely think it was UT this morning because of his behavior when he woke up. He was trying to get the day started and stand!

Tonight so far he very restless, he actually woke up 2 hours after BT and that was after he woke up with the hour of BT. Then restless and woke up again around the 2 hour mark but resettled himself. So it sounds OT but then it could be UT. He may be restless because of too little A or because he's OT and fidgety. His routine basically  went like this:

NW 12:02, 3:47-4:21, 5:52-6:50 am

Total: 10.75

WU 8:03 am (overslept the alarm)
S 11:20- 12:18 pm (A 3:20; self settle in a minute with a little crying; woke up 30; took 6 minutes to get him back to sleep)
S S 3:07- 4:58 pm (A 2:51; cried for 1 minute then self settled; woke up at 1:01)
BT 8:31 pm

[becj86]

Yep, so you've got OT and UT at play and its really getting that daytime routine sorted out that will make a big difference.

You're doing the longest A time at the end of the day still which doesn't seem to suit him. Pushing that bit more in the first and second A times I think should help. You've also still got some pretty massive NWs in the early hours - I think keep pushing that AM A time if you can.

When he wakes 30min into that first nap, how's he behaving?

[JennVanessa1083]

After 30 minutes he looks around then starts fussing but not actually crying.

Perhaps 3.5 A to bed is too long? Should I shorten it to 3hrs? Does that mean lengthening the first A beyond 3.5 or you mean making sure he goes down closer to 3.5 rather than 3:20A for example?

Also I think the second A could be lengthened to 3 hrs after a 45 minute nap.

Today, he only slept for 35 minutes on the first nap and then I did a 3 hr A and he needed resettling around the 35 mark.

I agree with you that it's a OT UT situation. Last night was better; no long NW!! However, he woke up twice within 4 hours after BT, slept until 5:30 and ate. Although he put himself back to sleep, he was tossing and turning a lot! I think we are on the right track but definitely need more tweaking.

 I did the same routine today:

NW : 10:50, 1:03 am (fed), 5:16 am (fed)

Total 11 hrs

WU 8:01 am
S 11:28- 12:03 (A 3:27; put him down at 3:13A and was not tired. Then cried. Picked up the put down and shushed fell asleep in two minutes)
S 3:03- 4:52 pm (A 3 hrs; came home from play date late; nursed bc he was hungry and no time for solids.)
S 8:23 pm (A 3.5)

He's woken up twice in the last two hours after BT. First NW was 35-40 minutes after BT then an 1hr and 20 minutes afterwards. Ahh just when I thought the A to BT was resolved. Well looks like it's OT right?

We will see how tonight goes!

[becj86]

Looks like its falling into place

Maybe just stick with it (perhaps reduce A to BT by 15min since he's OT there) for a few more days so we know the signs we're seeing are reliable, then we can tweak - I think likely you'd increase AM by just making sure he doesn't go down before 3.5hr and get that 2nd A time up to 3hr post-45min nap.