HELP-8 mo old screams hysterically before naps!

[JennVanessa1083]

Yes! Things are starting to look up! 

Tonight was rough... He was up 4 times: 9pm, 10:30, 12:45, and 4am where he was tossing and turning. Finally I nursed and he went back to sleep. Can 15 minutes of extra A at BT really cause all of this? Maybe too much A after a 35 minute nap contributed?

Anyways, yes I will decrease A to 3.25 for BT and follow the same routine making sure I push first A to 3.5 and second A 3 hrs. Will keep you posted!

[becj86]

Can 15 minutes of extra A at BT really cause all of this? Maybe too much A after a 35 minute nap contributed?

Yeah, without those 9 and 10:30 wakings, you'd have had a normal night and those are from OT at BT.

[JennVanessa1083]

Very true. Here's hoping to a better night!

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi!!

Update: last night went well: I shortened is A and he slept until almost 1 am, fed, slept until 5:30, fed, and slept until 7:30! He did a 12 hour night with two NF and no EMW!!!! I'm estatic!

Today is a weird day since I'm having family over. I'm actually holding my son as we speak while he naps since he flat out was refusing. Maybe OS from family and not enough windown.

I have a question: I let him nap for an hour in the am knowing he would have a shorter pm nap since family is here. What would have been a good A to shoot for afterwards. I tried aiming for 3hr. I nursed him, then did his nap routine and laid him down. It was a epic fail! He cried hysterically for a half hour while I did PU/PD. Finally I held him because he was so wired and hysterical. It took me an additional 10 minutes of holding him for him to calm down and fall asleep. His A ended up being 3:40ish. He was clearly OT in the end which leads me to believe either A. He was OS then OT, or B. 3 hrs was too short of an A after an hour long nap and he was UT then became OT.
So in general given the A times of my DS, what would be a good A to shoot for if he naps for an hour in am?

Thank you again for all your amazing advice!

[becj86]

Yeah, probably OS - I'd say go for maybe 3:15 off 1h morning nap, but with OS factors around, I learned I had to leave the OS area and have DS in a quiet spot with just me for about 30min to wind down from the OS (so playing whatever he wanted, even if crazily active, just not with loads of people around) then PD for nap.

If there's a likelihood of OS, I'd do a modified shush/pat or GW rather than PUPD as its so stimulating on its own. Really in those instances, you're looking to help him calm down

[JennVanessa1083]

Ahhhhh I see! I'll definitely try that should I run into the situation.

In terms of naps, is it possible if DS is sleeping 11-11.5 hrs at night (not including NF), that it can take away from the amount of day sleep? I noticed his naps are not as long (35-40 minute am nap; around an hour pm nap) but his night sleep has lengthened. Should I even this out more?

[becj86]

I'd err on the side of a longer night and perhaps cap that AM nap a bit more aggressively to get a longer nap in the PM so you're still getting a good long nap in somewhere.

[JennVanessa1083]

How much shorter bc he's only doing a half hour am nap with a 3:20- 3.5 A. Is that OT or UT? Maybe he's still not used to the longer A in the am? I have been resettling the am to get at least 45-1 nap bc 30 minutes seem so little. Maybe I shouldn't do that anymore and hope for a long pm nap?With the pm I'm still having to resettle for a longer nap but after an hour I can't. I have been doing a 3 hr A but maybe if he naps for an hour in the am I should do 3.25 like you suggested?

Do you think it's possible he may favor long am nap instead of a long pm nap? Or does it even matter?

Sorry for all the questions, his nights have gotten better but I'm starting to get OT wakings about after BT and I know it's because of the nap situation. It's just so tricky!

[becj86]

Yeah, if he's waking after 30 min, you may get a better PM nap. I'd just get him up.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ok I can give it a try and see if the pm lengthens.

[JennVanessa1083]

I had another EMW 

 Wondering if maybe I didn't push the A enough or too much day sleep. Yesterday's EASY went like this:

NW 9:05, 1:07, 4:36

Total 10.5 hrs

WU 7:11 am
E 7:45 am
A
E 9:15 (solids)
A
S 10:34-11:45 am (A 3:23; patted no crying took 7 minutes; woke up at 30; took 9 minutes to resettle)
E 11:45
A
E 1:15 (solids and BM)
A
S 2:52-4:34 pm (A 3:07; self settle in 3 minutes no crying; woke up at 39; slightly UT; aim for 3:15 after 1 hr nap; resettled in 3 minutes)
E 4:39 pm
A
E 6:15 (solids)
A
BF/BT 7:55 pm (A 3:21)

NW 12:05 (stirred at 9:30pm), 3:37, 6:15-6:40 am (tried to resettle but was restless so I nursed on one side and fell asleep for another hour)

Also when a baby wakes up within 10 minutes of falling asleep does it mean UT? He napped for an hr in the am (A was 3:20; he fell asleep way faster than I thought he would) then I did a 3.25 A. He fell asleep quickly without fussing or anything but then woke up. Then kept waking up. Strange...

[becj86]

Likely too much day sleep, I reckon. Could be an A time thing - worth trying an increase.

Within 10min of falling asleep is more often pain or overstimulation. Could be OT but would be more unusual.

[JennVanessa1083]

That's interesting wrt too much day sleep; he only totaled 2.5 in day sleep. For his age is that too much maybe? If that's the case then his am nap should be cut down to 30 minutes so he can have a1.5 nap in the pm? These transitions are tricky!

Should I do an increase in the am as well? By how much? Is 3:35 too conservative? I just had another long NW. There was a diaper leak so it could have been all the commotion bc he didn't go back to sleep after a feeding. He stayed awake another half hour after nursing.

[becj86]

Yes, if you're aiming to keep one nap long, the other has to be short. The idea is to phase the short one out eventually. Often once people get a routine that suits around 9-10 months, it sticks for a few months til its time to shrink or do away with the short nap.

I don't think 3:35 is too conservative, especially if you're doing a decent A time after a short nap and looking to achieve a long PM nap.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ahhh I see...in general is my DS younger than usual to have a 30 minute nap then 1.5 nap? He just turned 8 months last week. I'm new to all of this so it's interesting to me that he no longer needs 3 hours of total day sleep.

Also what do I do if it seems DS favors a long am nap/short pm...do I just enforce the short am nap? Will it reinforce EMW if I don't do a short am/long pm? I don't want the long am nap route if it means trouble down the road. Could I just switch at some point? Say from long am nap to long pm or is that just asking for trouble?

Side note, I like the idea of having something consistent for awhile after finding the right routine for him.