HELP-8 mo old screams hysterically before naps!

[JennVanessa1083]

Ohhhhhh that's an interesting fact. I always did total sleep subs tracking any NW even if it's short. I guess I'm crazy like that. It could be his development leap that he's still in and all the stuff he's mastering as well or a sleep regression.

Right now he's still doing 3.5, 3.25-3.5 (depending on am nap), 3-3.25 (depending on pm nap length)

However, I'm getting early wakings (5-6 am) only after 9 hours or so of sleep. In total 10 hours with 3 other NW! I don't feed every waking only two of those.  I try to get him to go back to sleep, even nurse and only squeeze out another half hour. I know that's not enough for him bc he wakes up cranky but then fine after another half hour. He cries when I attempt to put him back to sleep. It's been happening for days. Today it wasn't until an hour later that I fed him and he fell asleep. I'm trying not to let him eat 3 times throughout the night but by 6:30 it was nearly 4 hours since his last feed. Then he went back to sleep for another hour.  Is this OT? Last night his last A ran a little long but that wasn't the case for the other days. His naps total to around 2 hours on average give or take. Is this UT? Is it the longer am nap?

Update: Yesterday I tried for 3.5 A and he was playing in the crib. Started crying when I tried to pat. Then tried PD because he wouldn't stop crying, which only made him more hysterical. Had to hold him to sleep bc was he working himself too much and coughing (he still has a cold). So when it was all said and done he did an almost 4 hour A! So I'm thinking I may have to push the A out to 3.75 or its OT from the shorter night and I should have put him down sooner? But then again, he was too wide awake by 7 with only 9.5 hours of sleep which is low for him. This is what happened:

NW 11:28, 1:21, 4:35; 6:37

WU 7:19 am
E 7:20
A
E 9:30 (BF; rejected solids)
A
S 11:11-12:35 pm (A 3:52; tried for 3.5 A and he was playing in the crib. Started crying when I tried to pat PD held him bc hysterical)
E 12:40
A
E 2:15 (solids and BM)
A
S 3:50- 4:27 pm (A 3:15; self settle with a whimper in less than one minute)
E 4:53 pm
A
E 6:15 (solids)
A
BF/BT 7:35 pm (A 3:08; nursed; not enough wind down due to dinner running late)

NW 8:53, 11:24, 3:09; 5:42-6:45 (woke up fussy and trying to be active; I tried to help him resettle then finally fed close to 6:45)

Ugh I'm sorry, I know I keep having questions etc; I just feel like the last few weeks have been such a struggle. I'm drained. He's such a joy throughout the day but I dread when it's nap time and the night.

Thank you again!

[JennVanessa1083]

HI!

I wanted to update you that last night he got restless around 2 where I had to intervene. Given the last few days, should I push the first A more or leave it?

Also, he still waking up between 5-6 but if I feed he goes right back down. Since he still has a cold I'm feeding. I do have a question. He tends to feed around the same times every night (of course depending when he goes to sleep) is that ok? Is it habitual?

[becj86]

It could be OT creeping in - that doesn't mean to reduce A times though, as if you have too many short UT naps, you create the OT.

Never change routine based on one night - always see if there's a pattern over 3-4 days at least before making a change. TBH, it sounds like illness/developmental stuff rather than pure OT/UT.

[JennVanessa1083]

Yes you are right. I have been sticking to the routine for almost a week. I realized the EMW was bc he wants an extra feed which is fine as he has a cold. What I have noticed in the last couple of days are his naps seem UT. So for example the am will be about an hour and 10 minutes give or take then the afternoon is 45-1hr. I have been doing 3.5 A for both. He goes down very easy for the naps but wakes up early. So I'm thinking that I could either:

-stretch his first A by 10-15 minutes to see if the lengthens then keep second A at 3.5 and see where that gets me.
- stretch both A times to get decent naps
- stretch one A ( am) and shorten a nap
- keep A times the same and shorten morning nap.

Any thoughts?

On a positive note, he has been sleeping more soundly. 

[becj86]

All those options are viable, with the possible exception of this one:

stretch both A times to get decent naps

which would lengthen your day too far - your days of 2x1.5hr naps are over, IMO.

Its a case of take your pick, try it for a week. Stick with it if it works, try another option if not. All those options work for different babies and different families - I'd start with the one that fits into your family life best.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ok I can do some experimenting and see.

Do NW happen when baby is UT? I'm definitely getting more NW since naps have shortened.

[becj86]

Yes, NW can happen for all sorts of reasons, OT and UT being two, illness, teething, changes in dreams, etc.

[JennVanessa1083]

Haha yes it can!! He's got a lot going on: trying to stand unassisted, lingering cold, and possible teething. He was restless all night waking up more sometimes putting himself back to sleep sometimes I had to help. If LO wakes up 1.5 hr after BT is that still counted as an OT waking?

[becj86]

If LO wakes up 1.5 hr after BT is that still counted as an OT waking?

Yep, generally.

[JennVanessa1083]

I get these wakings with a 3 hours A to bed  Yesterday was clearly OT due to strange nap day (out all day). However, other nights he will wake up around there. Maybe consistency with the new A time in the am will shed some light on whether to change the last A.

[becj86]

Those *can* also be teeth.

OT at BT is the key there - not that the whole day is wrong, can often just be the A to bed. Off a CN, he may not cope with 3hr A, maybe more like 2:30-2:45 would work better after a short PM nap.

[JennVanessa1083]

Yea I do think teething may be playing a part.

I can try a shorter A to bed if I get another CN. Right now I'm trying to resettle DS who has been wide awake for a half hour...sigh. It's 5 am here and he woke up close to it. Not sure if this is a result of not enough A or too long of A to bed. But he woke up fussy but not full on crying which he doesn't do unless he's really OT so I'm thinking maybe OT? He did have a 40 pm nap (outside noise woke him up) then I did a 2:50 A to bed. He still woke up 2 hrs hours later where my DH resettled. So maybe he needs a shorter A to bed like you suggested and not more A in the am. I find it very hard to have him do a 3:45 first A unless we are out and about.

Yesterday's EASY was:

Teething

NW 8:20-8:57 (OT; teething pain), 12:42, 4:04-4:28 (wide awake even after feed; OT?)

Total ~10

WU 6:44 am (OT rising would not go back to sleep)
S 10:19- 11:56 am(A 3:35; self settle; very tired. Started nodding off during story. Woke up at 40; need a push in A?)
S 3:47-4:28 pm (A 3:51; stroller; woke up from ambulance)
BF/BT 7:19 pm (A 2:51; irritable; could be teething pain since biting down on me hard or a little OT)

NW: 9:30ish, 11:45, 2:55, 4:55-5:35 am

Also when teething, do you shorten A times? Today he fell asleep a half hour earlier for his pm nap and slept for over an hour! I was expecting a UT nap since it was only a 3.25 A after a 1.5 am nap. Babies are SO good at keeping you on your toes!

[becj86]

Also when teething, do you shorten A times

Depends on the child - for DS, no, for yours, maybe. Its worth following his cues as you have, rather than trying to stick doggedly to a schedule.

4:04-4:28 (wide awake even after feed; OT?)

or teeth... wide awake and grizzly or wide awake and happy?

[JennVanessa1083]

I'm not sure if it's just teething or also a growth spurt. Yesterday he practically ate and slept all day.

When he has longer periods awake, he will try to put himself back to sleep and it takes a bit. Sometimes I help him if he gets fussy. Sometimes he just lays or sits up looking around quietly.

[becj86]

Yesterday he practically ate and slept all day.

He could be going into a GS or just recovering from a week or so of not eating as much and not sleeping as much...