Author Topic: 19wk old early waking  (Read 2539 times)

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Offline josephfc

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19wk old early waking
« on: February 04, 2016, 07:45:08 am »
Hello. I've received some wonderful advice here in the last few months and so I'm hoping you can help again.

My DD is waking at 640 on the dot every morning. I know that doesn't seem too early but I can't cope with it. I really struggle with mornings and I'm so exhausted all the time. My son also goes to school and her early waking is disruptin him and means her first nap is either too early or too late in order to fit it around his drop off times.

Until about 3 weeks ago she'd sleep 730-730 but as her short naps are catching up with her she is getting more grumpy and going to be earlier and earlier.

Her bad naps often mean her last nap falls at around 5pm and often she is out yor the night. We left her one night and she was awake for the day at 530am. So now I wake her if she sleeps too long.

There are other days when she wakes up from her last nap too late to fit another shorts one in so bedtime is falling at 615/630.

I really need to push all of this back so we have a 7am wake up (minimum).

On to if all this she occasionally wakes between 4 and 430 and refuses sleep without a bottle. She seems wide awake and chatty at these times.

Here are some of our days:

School day
640 wake
E 7
S 910-950 (of school day - really crys when settling)
E 1030
S 1210-1230 (in car school pick up)
E 145
S 230-310
E 415/430
S 510- 6 (sometimes have to wake her)
E 630
S 730/8 (she's fighting bedtime at the minute probably due to the mess up in routine)

Non school day
640 wake
E 7
S 850-930
E 1030
S 1130-1210
E 145
S 210-350
E 445/5
S 610 (stretch it out to get a better bedtime)

She was dropping off to sleep brilliantly until recently and now she fight all sleeps again. She had a wake time of 2h first nap and 150 second so I've pushed her to 210/2h but she still fights and seems more tired and grumpy throughout the day.

Thank you for looking!

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 08:18:47 am »
Ok, from what I can see, technically you're not getting an EW as it's around 11-11.5hrs ONS. I wonder if we just need to shift the day for you as well as sorting out these short naps!

So I wouldn't suggest going for a later BT at this point as many bubbas will still wake at the same time and cause them to have less ONS and you have a grumpy LO on your hands. What we might have to do is push that first nap out a bit and just work on that one for now? Then hopefully we can move onto the others.

Is she always upset on 2.5hrs first A? And settles better on 2hrs 10? It might be that we go somewhere int he middle for a bit? wdyt? xx



Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2016, 08:52:03 am »
Thanks for responding so quickly! You're right I feel silly complaining about early waking, we're very fortunate really.

It's tough to say, I only try it on school run days and it's so rushed I think she'd be unsettled anyway. She doesn't fall to sleep in the pram (she doesn't nap of the go well anyway). She has always been on the higher end of A times so maybe we could push it. We were at 2h and she's drop off almost straight away and now she isn't, even at 210. The other day I got a long second nap from her with an A of 2h which made me think we needed to push it.

She's in her bed now 210 A time and chatting away to herself. If find it difficult to tell if that's because she isn't ready or if she's OT!

What would you recommend? I'm nervous to push too far as she is usually really laid back but when her first nap is wrong she become a hot mess!

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 09:01:40 am »
She just nodded off quietly at 220 so we'll see how that goes.

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 17:04:46 pm »
So today we had a first A time of 2h20. I put her down for a nap at 2h and usually she gk s to sleep quickly but today it too her 20 minutes.

After that things got messy because of the school drop off (today DS starts at 12pm so threw a spanner in the works time wise). I thought it was going OK but then for third nap we were on th school run again so I didn't get her to bed until 2h20 and she didn't go to sleep. I had to rock her in the end because she had an OT kick off.

Here's what we had:

W 640
E 820
S 9-940
E 1110
S 1215-1250 went back for 3/4 minutes until 110 first time she has almost resettled.
E 230
S laid down 310, was tired but wouldn't sleep. Cried and rocked at 415.
S 415-5

Do you thinko I should aim for 220 first a and 2h for the rest of the day for the next few days? I'd like to try 230 but not sure if we'd end up in and OT spiral.

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 17:48:57 pm »
No you're not silly at all! I didn't mean that  :-[. It's just that we call an EW 10-10.5hrs oNS and could be indicative of OT or too much day sleep  ;). Or teething for that matter! We need to find a routine that will fit in with your family life and if that's too early I'm sure we can try and work it our for you.

Yes, I'd hold 2hrs 20mins for a couple of days and see how she goes. Then we might have to increase again but we'll reassess then. I might be tempted to go a tad higher for the other A afterwards, perhaps 2hrs 10mins? Especially after a short nap, it would be interesting to see what happens. The third A could be as short as 2hrs or maybe a little under that considering we only want a short nap in there and I think she might be getting OT by the end of the day with these cr@ppy naps. Kepe me posted ok? xx



Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2016, 18:06:07 pm »
 :) will do thank you!!

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 08:51:53 am »
 :'( this morning we had a 605 wake up (approx) and now she is just plain refusing sleep. She went to bed at 7pm and woke at 4am for about 40 minutes. What's she playing at? I'm so frustrated, it was all going so well.

She eventually went to sleep 9am-945 after a few revisits and a bit of rocking. Until that point she really wasn't having it.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 10:13:22 am by josephfc »

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 20:31:08 pm »
Today was a strange one. We had a 2h nap! I think maybe exhaustion after a long first A time? I can't imagine she'd be at a 3h A already!

Here's the day:

W 605
E 740
S 9-945 (tried from 810)
E 1120
S 1210-220 (tried from 1145, went to sleep without crying though)
E 250
S 455-525 car
E 630
S 725 (no fuss)

With her seemingly refusing the first nap I don't know whether to go back to 2h10, stick with 220 or push it further! It was nearly 2h30 when we got the second long nap.

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2016, 06:10:51 am »
Oh god 550 and we're up for the day, it's getting earlier. I don't know what to do.

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2016, 19:34:23 pm »
Yay to the long nap, but  >:( to the EW.

It is very interesting that you got to 2.5hrs A after a short nap and then that yielded a long nap. Hmmm. I would keep with that 2hr 20 first A for another day or so, but we might have to consider moving that out again soon. What I do want to do is reduce that last A as 2hrs might be a tad too much on a 30mins nap. Maybe bring it back to 1hr 30?

What we can see is that she's reducing her night sleep when she's getting a decent nap in the day. I want to keep an eye on this over the next day or so, but it might be that she can handle high A times and needs to drop that CN sooner than later, but time will tell ok? Bear with it for a little while, it will get better ok?xx



Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2016, 19:36:59 pm »
OK thank you! After the major panic this morning she went back to sleep (took an hour). Short naps again all day. But we'll stick with it and see where it gets us.

Thank you!!

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2016, 19:55:40 pm »
Still poor you, I can never get back to sleep after they do that  >:( xx



Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2016, 09:40:03 am »
Hello. So things seem to be getting worse rather than better. Admittedly we've had s busy few days and messed up a few nap times. But it seems she is getting more and more OT, is waking earlier and needing to go to bed earlier as a result. And is waking in the night screaming when before she'd have a little chat with herself.

Last night she woke at 445 howling (3am in Sunday, 4am Saturday), we fed her then she went back to sleep 430-615. She used to lay in her cot chatting until I got her up at 7am but for the last two mornings she has cried until I give in and get her up.

I can't tell when she's tired anymore so I took her to bed at 815 (had to take DS to school so I hoped to squeeze a quick nap in) but she cried. I got her up and in the end had to take DS to school which meant she was OT when we came back and I had walk her to sleep.

I'm really fed up now, she was a great sleeper and now we've lost the plot again. I know she needs a shift in A times, she acts this way every time, but she has never been so exhausted before.

And with her morning starting so early her night is early too, sometimes 6pm bedtime! I can't seem to get it right at all.

I can't show you a decent routine from the last few days as it has been so erratic. And today with school pick ups she's going to be napping all over the place again.

Here was yesterday's based on being out and squeezing naps in where possible:

620 ish WU
S 848-920 (tried her at 830, she cried quite a bit, I picked her up a couple of times but she fell asleep in the cot)
S 1130-1150 (we were at a party)
S 135-2 (rocked)
S 4-445 (rocked)
BT 639 - went straight to sleep but fussed a lot)

I don't know how to get a good few test days because the school run is always getting in the way. But it seems 220 causes a lot of tears but 210 ends in nap refusal.

Sorry it's a bit of a rant, I can't find any cohesion!

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2016, 19:30:00 pm »
It's so hard to find any cohesion when your days are different hun. I presume you found it much easier first time around? That's because there wasn't another Lo to work around too!
All you can do is try and go with the flow. !hr 15mins would be unlikely to get a nap, but I can see why you tried.

What I can see is that You were doing well witht he high A times, but I wonder if se is OT have you tried going back tot he 2hrs A first thing? xx



Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2016, 22:21:15 pm »
This morning was 2 hours A time as she woke up at 615. She just wasn't having it at all. I don't know what's going on really, she doesn't settle no matter what time she naps. I just need to get her wake up to 7am so her naps don't clash with school and I don't have a breakdown! I'm being dramatic but still...615 is too early but I can't get her to move it back.

I didn't find it easier with no 1, he was napping in me until he was 9 months, had a serious dummy habit and would only sleep if we bounced him for half an hour. Serious AP with that guy ha ha. I suppose it's why I'm so anxious to get it right this time. She's proven herself to be a good settler and I don't want to mess it up by interfering/getting it wrong.

Thank you for the support. Fingers crossed for a more suitable wake up tomorrow.

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2016, 19:25:08 pm »
Well on the plus side this one is better then isn't it  ;).

You're not interfering at all, you're trying to find the A time that suits her. An odd nap in the pram won't make any difference to that i promise. Keep me posted ok? xx



Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2016, 19:27:05 pm »
 :) thank you. She's been weird today, tired after an hour and grumpy. I think we're in a growth spurt and maybe teething so hopefully we'll ride it out for a few days and be back to normal. Let you know!

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2016, 11:00:19 am »
I just don't know where we are now I'm feeling completely lost. She is refusing naps no matter when I try her. Last night I tried to settle her for the last nap and after an hour I just gave up. This morning she wasn't having any of it. And she's so tired by the end of the day that she finally goes to sleep at 5pm and so she's waking at 5am. My son is now waking up at 5am with her and he's so tired he's really grumpy and needy. I need to sort it out but she just won't sleep any more.

I've been so stressed I've lost track of times. Here's a bit of something:

NW 530
550 E
S 650-725
E 840
S 940-1015 (35m) (930 left in cot)
E 1130
S 1235-120 (45) rocked
Tried at 315 refused. Have up 415
E 5
S 510-540 fell asleep with bottle
S 635 really tired after nap went straight to sleep


NW 510

S 550-635

S tried at 835 and refused, grumpy but not tired (no yawns etc). Didn't sleep.
Tried again 9am refused. Really unhappy.
935-955 car
1215-1235 car
240-325 fell asleep with bottle
5-520 car
650/655 minimal fuss

Woke 550 this morning and wouldn't go back to sleep.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 09:48:18 am by josephfc »

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2016, 07:31:05 am »
Hello.

We had a bit of an improvement for a while but we're back to 6/615 wake ups. It's causing lots of problems with the school run and quite frankly I'm exhausted.

It seems if she has a nap any later than 430 then it's a long one, I end up waking her up after 40/60 minutes. Once I've woken her up she's grumpy and ready for bed and barely makes it to 630pm.

615 W
A 845-925
S 1130-1205
S 2-235
S 430-530 (woke her up)

The day before was a bit different:

Sokerimes her last nap is more like 5-530 and again I have to wake her up. We were getting 40m naps on a 230/240 A time but they've shortened and now she's tired at the 2h mark after the first nap.

I get the feeling we need to cap the catnap but she is so grumpy at bedtime I'm not sure how that would effect her.

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2016, 07:19:52 am »
What time are you aiming for BT atm? Is it 6.30? Sorry for the late reply I've been absolutely manic with home and house issues!

Should that first A be another S and is just a typo? Just checking xx



Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2016, 07:24:59 am »
Hello. No worries I appreciate the help!

Yes sorry first A is actually S. Aiming for a 730 BT but she can't make it because of the already early wake up. She's also waking at 4am but settling herself back to sleep after 10 minutes.

The problem is that with the 6am wake up and short naps she's ready for bed at 5pm which is far too early.

Offline lauradj

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2016, 03:52:53 am »
Hi there!  I thought I'd pop on to offer some fresh eyes  :D
It looks like you're LO is awake for about 2.5 hours for that first A time and then things start to vary.  Is that due to school runs?
You mentioned that your LO is ready for bed by 6:30pm but if she's waking at 6am that makes perfect sense.  Even with naps 12hrs is typically the longest most LO's can handle in one day. 


Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2016, 04:15:10 am »
Hello. Thank you for replying. I'm awake in the middle if the night when everyone else is asleep (typical!) so I'll copy and paste from my post the other day.

I can't have a 615 wake up, it's too early. My 3yo is woken up by her and is exhausted and grumpy all the time. And it gives me a real problem with first nap times because I need to take my son to preschool so it clashes and she will not fall asleep in the pram in the walk.

I've been at it trying to fix it for weeks now but just can't push bedtime and morning back again.

I know her day is 11.5 hours but the times aren't right for my family, I really need to push her day back an hour. I appreciate your help thank you

Offline becj86

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2016, 06:22:36 am »
Hi, most of the issues you're talking about here are likely to be helped by increasing that first A time. LO is sleeping a short UT nap at the moment and if you increase that a tad, maybe 15min, you hopefully should see a later WU and/or a longer first nap.

From 4 months to 6 months, average A time increases from 2hr to 2:45/3hr, so 2:15/2:30 A time is pretty reasonable at this age.

In the meantime, if you're aiming for a 7:30 BT, don't wake her from a catnap at 5:30 after a day of short naps, wake her more like 6pm which would give her a better chance of getting to 7:30. It depends on your wishes a bit here - you could do one longer day and hope she pushes her WU later the next morning and just start your routine from there or you can gradually do it with the slightly longer A time first thing in the morning.

Where is she having that first nap - she can clearly sleep through that transition and have a long nap, so that's not what causing the short AM nap... Can you write out what your day looks like family-wise, so what times are drop-off and pick-up, how long does it take, does she sleep during the process, if relevant, what time does OH leave/get home in the evening, is this consistent?

IME, in this 4-6 month period, most LOs become able to have a day of 12-13hr with an 11-12hr night and the day naturally has to elongate before shrinking when the catnap goes around 6 months/3hr A times.

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2016, 09:03:10 am »
Hello. This all makes sense. It so difficult to judge!

I struggle with the first A because I leave for school at 850. We're back for 910 and she doesn't sleep in the pram at all. So I have to either push her to 3h10/20 or try squeeze it in early.

we have 3 different days

Day 1

School run 850-910 she won't sleep in the pram
School run 1150-1210 as above
We often go out for the day from here, visiting, errands etc. I try to stick to nap times in the car.
Home between 5/530 (usually asleep between 5/520 in the car)

Day 2
School run 850-910
School run 255-310
Home for the rest of the day

Day 3
School run 1155-1210
School run 255-310
Home for the rest of the day

Dad is always home between 450 and 530
Dinner time 530-6
Bedtime for 3yo 650-720
Bedtime for baby between 630 and 7 (aiming for 730)

She woke at 610 today and I put her down at 850, she went straight to sleep but only slept 35minites again. I could cry.

I'll log naps for today and tomorrow and see what happens extending that A to 240/245.

Thank you for helping!!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 09:27:55 am by josephfc »

Offline becj86

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2016, 10:15:36 am »
Lets have a look at the next few days. I do wonder if set naps would work - you might get the odd OT waking early on in the nap but those are usually easier to resettle. Have you tried resettling?

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2016, 10:18:52 am »
Well once she's awake that's it. She never wakes up crying just laughing and playing. I leave her for up to 30m sometimes to see if she'll go back but never goes.

I think set naps might work too. She settles to sleep on her own no problems, even if she's OT and I'm only getting 35m naps anyway!

Offline josephfc

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2016, 10:48:17 am »
Hello. Looks like we're having a tiny bit of success with a later nap but I'm having trouble getting s routine Tomane it work well. The last two days have bee a bit messy:

Wake 4am-5
Wake 6
S 845-920
S 1130-1225 (car nap)
S 3-330
S 645 (at families house and bedtime/last nap was a no go)

Wake 415-5
Wake 635
S 920-10
She went out with nana after that so lost track but last nap 530-6
BT 720

Today
W 5-530 (didn't feed just resettled)
W 635
S 915-945
Woke up ok but is already rubbing and very grumpy (only been an hour)

M worried about the short naps because she was doing well on 40m but now they're 30/35m she's seeming tired earlier. But she just won't resettle in her cot.

Also After the first nap I haven't real idea when the next should be. It needs to be after 12 because of the school run. Finally, 30-35m naps. Should I try push the first A together l get or is it too long? I'm aiming for a 930 first nap but she's really tired by 9/915. So many variables!

Offline becj86

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Re: 19wk old early waking
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2016, 02:06:41 am »
Have you tried sneaking in and resettling her when she wakes at 30/35 min? Sounds like OT rather than UT. That long early morning wake is getting better with the longer A time, i think maybe just work on extending with something such as shush/pat or hold thru the jolts.