Desperate mama! I haven't slept in 7 months :(

[rebekahmarie]

Hi mamas! I am looking for some much needed advice! I LOVE the baby whisperer book and I wish I could've hired her! I have a 7 month old boy who is a mix between a Touchy and Spirited baby. We breastfeed and co sleep and have no regular "schedule" For naps I either nurse him to sleep in our bed or rock him to sleep and try to put him down without waking... This is TOTALLY not working anymore. Last night the longest stretch of sleep I got was 2.5 hours...and that's pretty common. I can barely see straight. So I tried following the ABC method for his morning nap and it was awful. It was like I was making him CIO  I would lay him in his crib and when he started to cry I'd pick him up.. it was OK the first 7 times then he was inconsolable and the only way he'd stop crying was if I rocked him and the book said not to do that. I tried for 40 min and finally gave up and nursed him to sleep. I'm at a loss. I need to sleep and I want him to be able to fall asleep on his own. I have a 7 year old daughter and she was an ANGEL baby and STTN at like 2 months and was happy in her crib so this baby threw me for a loop. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you!

[Shiv52]

Hugs xx

You've  be few props going on as you know and it will take some time to get him used to a new way of going asleep. There will be some crying and resistance as he does this but you will be they reassuring him.

What is it you are looking to do?  Are you wanting to stop the co sleeping? 

Can you post a rough routine including what happens during the night?

Xx

[rebekahmarie]

Thank you! Yes, I am looking to stop co sleeping at this point. Unfortunately, I think that partly why he wakes up at night so often is because I'm laying right next to him. He also has never learned to sleep independently which I think is so important for him to do. Here is a typical day looks like..

8:00am we get out of bed
10ish he goes down for a nap/ I nurse him to sleep in our bed
wakes up 45-60min later
1pm down for second nap/ nurse him to sleep
wakes up 45-60 min
2:45pm we leave to pick up sister from school
Get home about 3:15
He will sometimes take a nap but most days he's awake till 5pm
I nurse him to sleep 5pm
Wakes up 30ish min later (super super crabby)
Daddy comes home 6:30ish
he eats and takes baby for a walk so i can shower about 7pm ( he naps on the walk)
Gets home about 8-8:30
Falls asleep for the night around 9-10pm
wakes up for a min around 11pm
wakes up 1:30ish
wakes up 4:30ish
wakes up on and off ( sometimes every 30 min) till I finally get out of bed again at 8-830am :/

[Buntybear]

Hi there, wow you do have a lot to contend with but some easy enough tweaks to your routine jump out at me.

I think that at 7 months old he should be having longer A times. That way he should be more tired and you should get longer naps. Plus you would probably look to drop the cat naps - at least 1 of them anyway!

Have you got a cot set up for him? Does he spend any time in it at all?

I am not sure were to start with the props but hopefully others will be along with ideas.

[rebekahmarie]

He does have a crib set up in our room and if I rock him to sleep sometimes I'm able to lay him down in there. Sometimes I put him in there to play for a min if I need to step away for a min. I know the evening cat naps aren't good but it's hard to figure out which to one to stop. When my husband takes him for a walk for an hour or so that is my only time of the day I have to myself that I can shower and just relax for a min. I'd hate to lose that. Last night he was up again every 2 hours. I know we need a change I just don't know where to start :/

He seems to get tired after being awake about 2 hours. Do you think I should try to keep him up for 3 hours? He just turned 7 months old yesterday. Thanks for your advice!!

[Buntybear]

Here are a few links for you to be looking at;

Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

I am trying to find a link to a thread about gradual withdrawal but I cannot find it at the moment. I would have thought that was your best bet right now.

I have asked for some more help to help with your props.

[rebekahmarie]

Thank you! That definitely gives me a better idea about how long his A time can be. I'll try to space out his naps more today. We had a rough night last night and is already taking a morning nap (it's 9:45am here) yes, anymore input is welcome! I am at a total loss and desperate for sleep :/

[Buntybear]

Yes that has reminded me I was going to say he will appear tired after 2 hours if he is up in the night! Often as you do try to extend A times then you do have to push through the tired signs anyway!

[Kellyjs]

Hi there, it does sound like you're having a rough time atm. Here's the GW link mentioned before (just ignore the bit about wi/wo). Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

I think when everything is up in the air and there's no set routine, it's a good idea to go with the 'average' and hold it for a few days. Hopefully then we can see a pattern as to what's happening. If you could post what the days turn out like in real time and in easy format for us, it'll be really helpful. I'm sure we can work it out 

DD had a horrible time with waking int he night at this age. We didn't co-sleep (i'm a horrible sleeper), but it was because of too short A times during the day. It did take a little while and some patience of my behalf, but we did get there and i'm sure you will too xx

[rebekahmarie]

I'm not sure what method to try.  at the end of the day I'll post what the schedule looked like. So far, it's not going well. I'm in tears I'm so tired of this. I waited about 3 hours before trying to lay him down and I tried the put down pick up thing.. He was NOT having that. He was crying hysterically even when I was holding him. I tried shushing and patting his back and rubbing his back and nothing helped. Totally inconsolable. He HATES the binky so that didn't work and I tried giving him a soft blanky and that helped a little but not enough. I finally just picked him up and laid down with him.. He still cried a long time before settling. We are going out of town next week and I'm scared this will only continue and even if I do make progress it'll all be messed up from vacation. He just has never fallen asleep by himself and I'm starting to think he never will 

[grace annes mommy]

Just popping in with hugs!  I also have a 7 yo and new baby.  My DD1 was touchy/spirited and pu/pd was just too much for her.  She would become inconsolable.  Since you are headed out of town next week anyway, maybe just start with working towards a good routine (as in appropriate A times) but not worry as much about the props.  Then, when you're back, you can work out a plan to gradually wean the props.  Sometimes a good nap routine alone will help with some of the NWs.

[Buntybear]

Hi, I am not sure that PU/PD is the right thing for you and your little man. It will be a very hard transition to have those props to then go into that so I would suggest gradual withdrawal.

I would say to start with naps and see how it goes. He needs to start getting used to his cot. Could you do what you normally do but then just before he goes to sleep put him and and but either pat him bottom or just leaving a hand n him. Use your voice to soothe him and reassure him that you are still there. This is not about leaving him but making him more comfortable in his cot.

This could take weeks (it did with us - months even  ). GW can be a slow process but it will be the best way for him to become an independent sleeper.

I would also get him to spend a bit more time in his cot awake. Just put him in there for a play so he associates it with nice times 

[rebekahmarie]

Thanks for the support mamas! So here is what our last  two nights looked like:
Day 1:
BT 9pm
NW 12am
NW 2am
NW 4am (up until 5. Restless sleep)
Day 2:
Nap 9-10am
Nap 1:30-2:40
Nap 6:30pm-7:30pm (I tried to make this bedtime but he was too wired)
BT 9:30pm
NW 2am
NW 5am
Day 3:
Restless sleep on and off till we finally got up this morning at 7:40am

So yesterday for his afternoon nap I tried setting him down in his crib asleep and he woke up instantly upset. I tried patting and shushing and rubbing his back and telling him "it's ok" and he was hysterical. I tried this for about 30 min. I have also tried to lay him down right before he falls asleep and I get the same result. Is this normal? Should I keep trying. After 30 min of trying, I'm practically in tears too and give in to nursing him to sleep. Today I plan to keep him awake for 3 hours and try for a nap. I also want to try to get on the Eat, Play Sleep schedule. Hard to do since we've gotten in the habit of nursing to sleep. I will also try to have him play in his crib a bit today. Thanks for the help so far! Any more input is welcome

[weaver]

Hi there,
my first baby was touchy   what you describe sounds totally normal for a touchy baby!

PU/PD would not have worked with him, I ended up using sh/pat and doing a very gradual transition to the cot.  He wouldn't have settled initially in the cot - hysterical would definitely have been the word. (Even as a tiny baby he wouldn't go in a pram for example, totally hysterical).  I should say he learned to be a fantastic sleeper and still is (touch wood) very reliable at 5yo.  The thing with touchies is that they are sensitive to OT and OS but they tend to thrive on a good routine, so keep watching him and you'll get closer to learning what his ideal A time is.  I would suggest making sure that activity right before naps is very quiet, that may help you.

I started teaching LO1 to sleep at a younger age but what I ended up doing was sh-patting him in my arms until very sleepy, and then transferring very gently into the cot and keeping shushing/patting in the cot until he was deeply asleep.  Then he was usually set for a good nap Remember you can tweak the sh-pat to a rub/hum or whatever works for LO, because he's older, he might prefer less shushing, depends on him!  But since he's touchy, it might be that physical contact will help him to relax and get ready to sleep. So hold him, snuggle him, keep it very low key, help him relaaaaax and into the cot.  Or, as Buntybear says above, you can try him with lots of contact in the cot.  So start with the big sleepy snuggle, then transfer into the cot (you may want to bend into the cot to minimise the time he's not being held) and then firmly keep contact with him, so he knows you're there.  For now, don't bet on putting him down and walking away. 

Don't feel bad about feeding him to sleep! Happens to us all, and was the best strategy at that moment.  What you know now is that you have a secret weapon for if/when things go completely pear-shaped.  It's called APOPing - accidental parenting on purpose - when you need to   Another thing that can work well for touchies is a sling nap.

[grace annes mommy]

Had another thought for you - he's at a good age to introduce a lovey.  Sleep with it yourself for a night so it smells like you, then have him hold the lovey while nursing, in the car seat, etc.  As you work towards him sleeping in the crib, it will become a comfort item for him.