Starting to go insane! 4 month old constant cold and nw

[lyssie28]

Hi I know there's a 4 month sleep regression and hoping that someone can assure me that it does pass! My baby is 17 weeks and is waking every 2-3 hours and then wanting up at 4.30. She has had some sort of cold since she was born so I don't know if shes waking from that.  When she wakes she isn't interested in her milk and just cries a bit but she really kicks her legs.  I try to keep her in her bed until 6am and I start her routine from there.  Her routine is:

Wu (out of bed) 6am
E 6.30
S 7.30 - 9/9.30

E 10.00
S 10.30/11.00 - 12/12.30

E 1.00
S 1.30/2.00 - 3.30

E 4.30
S 5-5.30

E top up 6.00
S 6.30

I think she's getting too much daytime sleep but I always put her down an hour and half after she wakes and her last long nap ends too early to take out the cat nap other wise she wouldn't last until bedtime.  What do I do?

[MommyN]

I'm probably not the best person to give routine advice but your  "constant cold" subject popped out at me. My friend's baby was constantly congested too and it turned out to be a dairy intolerance. Just something to consider.

[H7]

Hi ... from the sleep to the cold to the thumping you have just described my little one too a few things we did below that helped us hopefully they'll help u too....

The early morning waking sarted at 16 weeks and now at18 1/2 weeks we've just had 3 nights of 12 hour sleeps! Trying not to get my hopes up that it will last but fingers crossed.

The main thing we did (after advice on here) was to extend her first lot of morning awake time. She was only at 1hr/1hr15 and I've stretched it to 1hr 30/1hr 40 but then it looks like your little one is already awake a decent length of time for that first awake bit.

The only other thing I can think of is extended her awake time throughout the day past the 1hr 30 mark. I read somewhere that at 4 months they can stay awake between 1hr 45 to 2hrs. My little one currently manages the 1hr 45 mark.

These are just thoughts ... sure someone much more experienced than me will pop along and other some thoughts too.

Re the cold ... again my little one was the same and again I read somewhere that often constant snuffles aren't a cold but are due to the heating always being on. We have quite an old cold house so I had the heating on pretty much constantly until I read that and when I started putting the heating on less her snuffles cleared up. Mentioned it to a friend whose baby also had constant snuffles they used their heating less and their babies nose cleared up too. Worth a try if you think your heating is on quite a bit. Apparently it's to do with the heat drying out the mucus in their nose.

Finally the kicking. My little one used to do this. She would kick so loudly sometimes we could hear it down stairs where she thumped down on to her cot. I took her to a cranial osteopath at 11 weeks old and the thumping stopped. It may be a complete coincidence but again have read other people say cranial osteopath stopped the thrashing thumping and grunting and it seemed to work for us.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Your A times look short to me, can you lengthen them? At three months (today! Long A time baby) we are mostly on a typical four month routine - 2hr A then 1.5-2hr nap, repeat again in the afternoon and add a catnap (20-40mins) before bed.

[julia.north]

Hi there!

I feel with you! Had the same issue when my LO reached 4 months.
Almost from one day to another, he would wake every 1-2 hours at night. Sometimes hungry, sometimes just clingy and crying.

Miraculously, it did pass. He is now almost 5 months and sleeping fairly decently again with a dreamfeed at 11pm and a short waking at 3am (just have to put the paci back in and most of the times he'll settle and go until 6 am).

So I think the most important thing is not worry too much but keep calm and carry on these growth spurts are hard.

Also, just one more comment on his routine -
compared to my LO, he seems to be getting a lot of daytime sleep. at 4 months, LO was getting a short nap in the morning (30 - 45min), then a long lunchtime nap (2 hours) and a very short catnap (25-30min). he was in bed by 7pm. Also, his A times were longer - approx. 2 hours. So maybe you can push your LO a bit and shorten the nap times? When they are very active in the middle of the night, they're probably UT.
all the best!

[lyssie28]

Thanks for the advice.  I tried stretching her A times yesterday and she was ok with it. I let her lie until she started getting a bit grumpy and at one point it was 2 hours that she happily played and then she just drifted off no problem so I'll try 1hr 45 today for each A time and see how she goes as her night was much better last night. I'll also try putting the heating on less to see of that works.

[trimbler]

Hey there, just wondered how it's going now? Been following along but not posted as you're already getting great advice, so I hope it's working for you?

[lyssie28]

Hi, it worked for a while. She had some good nights.  However,  she's back to waking up all night again.  She's not interested in her bottle so I don't know Why she's waking but she'll cry, even when I pick her up and hold her,  for a short while and then I put her back down and she goes back to sleep.  It is cold at he moment and she has lots of blankets on but her little face is always cold through the night so not sure if it's that.  She's awake at least 1hr 45 now but her morning nap is always an hr long so I give her up to 2hr 15 for her second nap and then a half hr cat nap.  Not sure if that the right way to go.  Do you think maybe stretch her morning A time to give her a nap of 1hr and a half to 2 hrs?

[trimbler]

Glad to hear it worked for a while sorry things are going downhill again Some LOs tend to prefer a shorter first A and first nap (my DS for example), but you only really find that out by trying to push it out a bit and seeing what happens - so by all means try that. It may help if you could post your whole day's routine (as in your first post above), including what the NWs are like? How's her breathing these days/nights? What's her room temperature? Any gas/reflux possible?

[lyssie28]

She has been doing;

Wu 6.00
S 7.45 - 8.45

S 10.30 - 12.30/1.00

S 3.00 - 4.00

Bt 6.00

If she's up later than 6am we go from there and sometimes the last nap is half an hour it's later and her bedtime generally isn't any later than 6.30.

She has become very stuffy today so I've raised her mattress a bit more and she does have a bit of reflux. 

Nw generally start from about 10.30 and go on every 2 hours or so until I get her up in the morning.

[trimbler]

Ok that's helpful, thanks. What are the NWs like? How long do they last and what do you have to do, if anything, to get her back off to sleep? Could you wait a little longer to see if she resettles herself? Or does she wake screaming? How many feeds is she having at night? Bear in mind there's a growth spurt around 4mo...

[lyssie28]

Currently she takes on feed through the night but only takes 1 or 2 oz at once.  Last night when she woke she would fuss and really kick her legs on her Moses basket and if I left her a few minutes she started shouting.  Not crying just making noise.  Before I could just give her her dummy but now she won't take it and only settles when I pick her up and give her a bit milk. I had to lie her next to me in my bed last night for her to settle then she was up at 6 am.

[trimbler]

Ok, sorry, just to clarify - she takes one night feed of just 1-2oz? Or do you have to feed her every time she wakes, in order to get her to settle back to sleep? But previously she'd settle with just the dummy instead? How much does she feed during the day? How long do the NWs last? Are we talking 5mins or 1-2h each time? Does she seem really tired during the day, or generally happy and well rested? When she kicks her legs on her Moses basket do you mean she kicks the sides? Is she starting to outgrow it? How does she settle for sleep at BT? What help, if any, do you give her? How dark is the bedroom? Sorry, I know lots of questions, but I just wanted to get a fuller picture of the situation before jumping to conclusions.

[lyssie28]

She takes 1 to 2 oz each time normally it's 6oz in total through the night and she takes 6oz every 3 and a half to 4 hours through the day.  The later on in the day it gets she takes less milk so sometimes at 6 she might only take 3oz.  If she does this I try a bottle at 10.  She is normally awake around 5 minutes but the last few nights she's been awake 1 hr or more.  Do you think this means under tired? Today I'll see if she can go 2hrs before naps.  She's always happy through the day and goes for a nap really easily.  I just lie her in her basket with her dummy (sometimes she doesn't want it) and shush for a few minutes and then I can walk away and she goes to sleep herself.  It's the same at bed time.  We have blackout curtains but the hall light is on outside the room for my older daughter so there's a little bit light. I always make sure she's awake at least 2 hrs before bedtime if she's ok. We're also going to try her cot now just incase it's her basket but she's not too big for it just yet.

[trimbler]

Ok thanks...How would you feel about offering a bottle at the 10pm NW (especially if she didn't take much at BT), but then working on resettling her by other means at the next NW? If she's not taking much milk at each night feed, I'm not convinced that she's waking out of hunger. Is the air particularly dry in there? Could she be thirsty? I don't think I'd be offering water at this age, although I have to admit I don't know about FF, I'm sure you know far better than me what the advice is there!

Bit late now, sorry, but iiwm I'd just try pushing that first A time a little, rather than all the A times - if you think about the accumulated extra A time throughout the day, you probably don't want to do it all at once - but perhaps you did and it worked well today? Eventually that third nap should become a CN (30-45mins) and that actually might help with any UT at BT. Actually looking again at the routine you posted, you're getting a good 4-4.5h during the day and then expecting a 12h night, which may be a bit too much sleep at her age, unless she's very HSN. I suspect she doesn't need all that sleep, since she's having those 1h NWs. So don't worry if BT gets later once you push A times during the day - it's ok to have less than 12h sleep at night, so you might end up with 11h for a while and that's fine if she's happy on that.

[lyssie28]

Yeah I tried 2 hrs for each but she ended up OT by bedtime.  If I wake her after 1 and a half hrs for 2 of her maps what do I do to get her to bedtime? For example if her day went:

Wu 6:00

Nap 8:00 - 9.30

Nap 11.15 - 12.45

Nap 2.30 - 3.15

But then it's 3 hours until bedtime.  Also sometimes she wakes after an hour what do I do about her naps if she does this? Normally if I can't get her to settle I'd get her up and do her A time from there but maybe make it a bit shorter if she starts getting cranky but no less than an hr and a half.  But then this makes the naps even early and a longer A time before bed.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Early bed?

[lyssie28]

I guess but she already goes to bed between 6 and 6.30 because she wakes early.  If she goes any earlier she'd probably be wide awake at 5 am.

[trimbler]

Depends - if she's OT by BT you're probably better off going for the earlier BT as she may tack on at the end of the night, perhaps with another feed if necessary. If you push BT when she's already OT you run the risk of poor night sleep on top of that with an EW caused by the OT...

Why do you want to wake her after 1.5h of her naps? Is that to reduce the amount of day sleep? Another way to do it would be to focus on stretching A times (as gently as needed) but still allow 2h naps (for the first and second, at least if she'll take them that long) and this will result in BT getting later, ie a shorter night in total. But an 11h night is fine if it works for her, I've done even shorter (preferably no shorter than 10.5h IME) coming up to nap transitions. Better than a broken night!

The third nap doesn't necessarily have to be a CN just yet, it really depends on the LO. Since my LOs got OT quite easily I'd often end up with a longer third nap, especially with DS, who really needed to accrue a decent amount of A time overall before the night, but who got OT really easily if the A was too long, or the third nap too short. He was also a chronic short napper, so if he'd short napped earlier in the day then I found he could sometimes take a longer third nap and then manage a longer A time after it, which got BT to a better time for him. Does that make any sense at all? Sorry I'm rambling...

[lyssie28]

No no not rambling I understand 👍

Yeah I was thinking to cut down day time sleep but I don't want her to get OT.  I'll just let her have 2hr which she normally has easily in the afternoon at least anyway.  Her morning are a bit hit or miss but she normally has at least an hr.  Today I had to take the eldest to the docs so she could have a full nap so bedtime was at 5.45 so hoping she adds it into her night time sleep as this morning she was awake at 5am!  She has had good A times today because we were out walking (she gets too nosy and won't sleep in her pram anymore) and didn't seem too OT so here's hoping she has a good night. 

[lyssie28]

Nope awake all night again 😨 I wish I knew why she woke so much.  I'm starting to get extremely tired and frustrated now.  Pushing her A times doesn't seem to be helping.  I don't really know what to do anymore 

[trimbler]

Oh dear so sorry (((hugs))) don't forget to post a whole day/night now and again, so we can hunt for clues... Two thoughts right now - can't remember if we mentioned the 4mo sleep regression/growth spurt, but everyone has issues with sleep around this age, there's just so much developmental stuff going on, just remember you're not alone, it's a challenging time

Other thought was just that I remember doing a short fourth CN in the sling still at this age, it didn't go on much longer at all but just helped us get to BT without too much OT. Just another thing to consider... Or of course, as MJ&N said, go for early bed.

[lyssie28]

Well we are still having the same wake although last night it was reversed - started waking from 10pm until half 12 - gave dummy and offered milk - and then she woke at 2am - took half a bottle and I had to changed her clothes because nappy leaked- and then she slept until 7.15.

Her day yesterday was:

Wu 6.00

S8-10 (I had to wake her)

S12-2 ( woke herself after 2hrs)

S 4.15-5pm (I woke her up)

Bt 6.30.  I was trying for 7pm but she wasn't having any of it!

I think I'm coming to realise that this is not to do with her routine maybe but rather her age.  I do remember her sister was the same at this age. Her morning naps are still on and off.  Sometimes she easily has 2 hours and some days she will only have 45 mins.

[trimbler]

You're certainly right about the age thing with the 4mo SR. It's frustrating though, isn't it! How was she during those NWs? Crying? Babbling? Did you do anything else, other than offer dummy and milk, and change nappy? Looks like a nice day there, actually, probably making up a bit for those rough nights with some good naps, which she probably needs in  a way, although if she's up chatty and happy in the night then you might need to push A times harder so that she can start catching up sleep at night rather than during the day. However, if she's really upset in the night then I'd usually suspect OT and/or discomfort... I wondered whether you'd tried letting her have a longer third nap, in the hope that she could then do a longer A time afterwards without getting OT? It still just seems to me a bit like she's getting on the short side of A time overall during the day, but struggles to manage much A after a CN without getting OT? Hard to tell from a distance, of course! On the other hand, if you feel she's just really OT and/or HSN, I wonder if you could try reducing the A time before the CN a little (say, 2h, or even less?), and then perhaps you wouldn't have to wake her. Just thinking that if you're waking her from the CN, she's likely to be more tired as she really wanted to sleep a bit longer - so then she's starting the last A to BT already tired, so may not manage even 1.5h without getting a bit OT? Sorry, I'm trying to point out some different options for you, for you to decide what you'd like to try, since you know her best