So exhausted -need help with plan to get dd to nap again!

[Amycf]

Hello,
I am new to the forum but have read book and many of these posts before asking for help.
I appear to have a darling girl who just doesn't fit the txt book at all! My husband and I ( mostly me since I am home with her all day) are at our wits end trying to get our sweet baby to nap ( and sleep since often her no napping will negatively affect her night sleep.

DD turned 6 months yesterday, and we have been essentially been having nap/ sleep issues since months, with a two week reprieve around 4.5 months.
Our easy is so fooled up that it is difficult for me to report on. We have tried extended and decreasing A times, changed E times and have tried differs ways to get her to sleep. Our evening routine has stayed the same and for the most part consistently works.

I think that one big problem is that I can not g their on a 4 hrs easy.... She go so fussy if she does not feed after 3 hrs, 3 1/2 max. Naps are often 30 mins at this point, some days 45-1hr , and a couple of 1.5 hrs naps ( very very very rare- and has only been for grandmothers!).
Some help and advice would be so welcomed at this point!

[Amycf]

I'd like to add that the last few days the naps are almost always 30 mins with her waking crying hard. Today they were 21 and 23 mins and no amount of could get her back down.
I was thinking that these changes ( she used to nap at 3 months+...before that she was colic) were to to developmental leaps....there was one around 4 months and when it was over she appeared to get a little better at. Sleep again, and then there was one around 23-26 weeks, but clearly it must be more than that since she hasn't been napping or sleeping well for a couple of months a now. I thought maybe she was Ut so I increased her A time from 2 to 2-1/2 hours, but she can hardly make it to this and now I think she is OT. I know for certain she is by the second nap since she barely takes a first one.😳 Any input would be helpful....I am pulling my hair out!!

[Jodes112]

Hello!

Big hugs, take a deep breath. This is a great place to get some help & support!

First of all, how is her night? Can you tell us what time she goes to bed, and what time she wakes up for the day in the morning. Does she have feeds in the night, if so how many and how does she settle back to sleep?

Does she self settle? Or do you need to help? For bedtime & naps.

I feel your pain, my dd had 30 minute naps for a good while between 3-6/7 months. It does settle & if we can get some more info we can see if there is any advice we can give!

Xx

[Amycf]

Thanks so much for your reply!
My husband is home now so I am getting a little relief before bedtime....a little calmer now, haha.

For a few months she was sleeping (3-4) 6 hour stretches at night and going back to sleep with hardly any soothing. But since about 4 months, she has been waking multiple times a night. Recently, it has been every 3 1/2 hours. I try to g hubby to sooth  her if it's been any less, since I doubt she is hungry. Sometimes she goes 4 hrs. Oft she will wake around 5 am ( even if she was fed at 4). We try and sush pat at that time and extend sleep to closer to 7. This last week, she has been able to self sooth around this time and make it til 6:30... And once in a blue moon 7!
She always needs help to get to sleep at night...rocking and lullabies , sometimes just rocking, and patting bottom ( she doesn't like back). Sometimes just shh pat works, but not usually lately.
We have a good nighttime routine, 6:15 bath and pjs, books with daddy and nursing, then lights out and rocking. At this point, when I try to put her down awake she cries so hard that it takes for very to put her down. She is typically asleep by 7, but often wakes around 45 mins and needs to be re- soothed. Then she will usually last till dream feed around 11.
Nap time she gets a story, a rock and pat. She never puts herself to sleep
Right now she breastfeed around every 3- 31/2 hours during day.

Thank you so much for going through this with me. I really want to figure out a plan to get back on some sort of reasonable schedule!

Amy

[Jodes112]

Thank you for giving a bit more detail!

Sounds to me like lo is OT.
The disturbed night is probably causing OT at the start of the day & then because of bad naps through the day she is OT for bed & is just stuck in that cycle!

Just to check, is teething in the mix at all? Any teeth popping through?

Around 6 months the average A is between 2hr 45 min & 3hr 15 min. If she had a good night sleep ie brief night wakes to feed then back to sleep, then thats what you would need to be aiming for. Most babies start to drop the 3rd nap at this stage and move to 2. One AM and one PM.

After wake up, at what point do you first try to put her for a nap? After how long awake?

What i would suggest though is trying to get that first nap right first of all & then you can go from there. Because she is OT to start with i would put for first nap a little earlier than the norm. If she wakes at 6.30 i would aik for first nap to be around 8.30. It seems early but if you get the timings right for the first one, you will get a good nap length & this will in turn give you a better second nap & reflect on the night too.

Hope this makes sense.

[Amycf]

So last night was weird....I think that her essentially no naps yesterday caused a major crash!
She was put down at 6:30 (couldn't wait til 7 since she was so OT) asleep. It took a lot of soothing mind you! She woke again just after 7:30- went back easily with a quick check in and shh.
Because she was so tired, I didn't wake her to dream feed and figured she would  just wake in her own to feed ( since she normally does). She didn't wake until 1am!she started to wimped and then stopped, but since it had been so long, I sent in anyway to dream feed. Best feeding in ages! She easily went back to sleep after nursing. Never woke again until 5:40 ( I think...well that's when she woke me...). I brought her to bed to nurse and tried to get her to sleep for another little while but no go. So since she's been up since then, I has to bring her up at 8 for nap routine. We did two quick stories and she was rubbing eyes, so l began rocking and she fell asleep within minutes. She has been down for 10 mins now so we shall see!
Part of me wishes she would crash every night, haha! But I know that she needs her day s,eep as she was very sooty yesterday afternoon, evening, and we couldn't do much with her.

Did I have too much wake time do you think this morning? I thought 2 hrs would be way too early (7:40!) to nap. How will I go about other naps today? Two morning naps? Or a longer A time in between? What if she only takes a short nap again this morning??

I am so knocked off course with these weird sleep times that I don't know what to be doing!

[Amycf]

Ugh!!! up again after 40 mins!! Woke up crying.
Went in and shushed and gave pacifier m but she spit it out. I picked her up for a min to soothe and put her back down. I am now watching her in the monitor talking away to herself and kicking her feet. I can't see how I am going to get her back down
What do I do now?? Another nap attempt around 11 am ( 2 hrs wake time) baca use of possible
OT? Or do I wait the 2.5hr or longer?
Now I don't when to feed. Do I feed now ( I fed at 6-6:30 and she had a little solids at 7:30) or wait till what should have been A time? The his little girly has me thrown for a loop for sure!

[Jodes112]

I would have suggested the same - to try nap around 8. See as she had a good night!

Yes i would try for 2.5hr A time until the next nap (sorry if im too late) and then depending on thatnap length she may need a cat nap later.

A couple of things you can try, to help get her through the first sleep cycle - at around the 25/30 min mark (around 5 mins before she usually wakes) go and lay your hand on her tummy and as soon as a little twitch to stir, you can gently use shhs pat to help her through the cycle. Thats if she takes to shss pat. I could often just use my hand on my daugher gently and that would be enough. If she stirs you catch her in the act & can help her through to the next cycle. Hopefully then her remaining asleep the whole time!

Another thingwe often did, and we used this mainly for dd when she was having a early wake spell - wake to sleep. Go in 10 mins before usual wake up, gently stir her so that it promps a roll over, or a rub of the eyes but not too much to fully wake. This can disturb the sleep cycle & they can then jist sleep though it. When dd was waking at 5am i would go in at quarter to 5 & just rattle her door so she gently stirred. She then slept in until a decent time as i had disturbed her usual cycle. Worked for us really well.

Wft feeds - i would have fed around 9/9.30 then given her A time & aimed for nap around 11.15.
Hope the rest of your day gets better 😊

[Amycf]

Thanks so much for your help.
I wish I could say that my day got better, but in factit is now worse.
I did not read your last post until it was too late.

So I decided to feed her around 9:30 after and to try and get her down around 11:30.
We had a playgroup to go to and I decided to go since I was going stir crazy ( we were snowed in yesterday, and so tired of the only focus of my day to be getting her to sleep:( ). I thought that maybe it would stimulate her enough that she be good and sleepy for her next nap. Well that backfired big time! We were running late ( but she showed no sleepy signs) and were in the car 11:30 on the way home...of course she fell asleep. I was so torn with what to do, drive around for an hour or head straight home and hope that I could transf her to crib. I got her in crib still asleep and was pretty happy with myself....she woke 6 minutes later. 22 minute nap in total. I went up to resettle and she was wide awake talking and kicking again. I took her up and rocked....then it was time to feed again so I nursed her. She fell asleep . I placed her in her crib and she woke 5 minutes later.

But this time I was ( and still am) ready to lose my cool. I am a very patient person but I am running out of steam with this issue! I took her to bed with me as a last resort to cuddle and soothe. She cried hard for 30 minutes, with me next to her comforting. As soon as I gave up and got out of bed she had a big smile and kicking and squealing.
I know that she is tired...what gives??!!

What on earth do I do now?

Amy

[Jodes112]

Sorry it didnt go to plan. But it happens & i really understand when you say you lose your patience. I think id try to resettle for 10 mins after she wakes up if you have no luck id give up & carry on with the day. Sometimes you just have to go with it & it leaves the stress you feel, behind with the bad nap. If that makes sense.

Id try again for a final nap around 2.5 hrs after, again. Dont worry if its a short one as it will see you through until bedtime, at least. Tomorow is a new day.

[Amycf]

Thank you, I needed to hear that today. You are right, all I can do is leave it and hope tomorrow is better. I have a beautiful healthy baby....she just needs some coaxing in th sleep dept.

Because she was so very OT, I just rocked again for another long wind down.  I only made it to 2hr 15 mins as she was sooky and rubbing her eyes and pulling her ears.  I'll see how it goes.

So for tomorrow....do y Think that I should put her down 2 hrs after wake time....even if very early again?  It didn't work this time but it may be due to it was much earlier hour than usual ( usually 9-9:30).
Should of I extend the other A times?

I have tried going in a little before the half hour and putting my hand on her to transition her through the sleep cycle before. It has worked a few times but has also woke her up. It is hard for me since lately her naps are so erratic...like yesterday twenty something minutes. I have not tried wake to sleep...honestly I am so nervous about it since naps are so short as it is lately.

Amy

[Jodes112]

honestly I am so nervous about it since naps are so short as it is lately.

I get it. But if the nap is going to be short anyway (ok it might not be but with her current naps highly likely) you may aswell give it a try. But thats up to you of course.

So for tomorrow....do y Think that I should put her down 2 hrs after wake time....even if very early again?  It didn't work this time but it may be due to it was much earlier hour than usual ( usually 9-9:30).
Should of I extend the other A times?

If she has an ok ish night i would try 2hr 15 A time for that first nap. I think that whilst she is OT you need to stick with the shorter A time once you get the first one right it should get a good nap & then she will catch up on the OT.

I hope your night goes ok xx

[Amycf]

Sounds like a plan!
Our wind down was extra long this evening. She's down down for the night, so hopefully I have a few hours to recharge here now before next wake/ feeding. Hubby is treating me to take out, so I don't have to cook this evening
If we have a good night, I will try our first nap 2.15 after WU . If needed, I will resettle when she wakes, but only for a limited time, as to not gbe myself stressed about it. We have friends form away visiting with their little girls late morning, so I really hope I get her that first nap- even 45 mins at this point is better than the 30! If she does not nap well, still go another 2.15 her A would you suggest?
I feel more relaxed knowing that I can bounce these ideas off yOu- this forum is so wonderful. I feel less alone in this!Thank you xo

[Jodes112]

Your welcome 😊

Its just about trialing that first A time & getting it right! Hope you had a good night with LO.

Yes if you get a rubbish nap Id go for 2hr15 again. If she give a good bap you can push that to 2hr30/2hr45.

Good luck

[Amycf]

So today was no better than yesterday, nap wise:( Although I didn't let it get to me as badly as the last few days...instead I took deep breaths ( many) and told myself that I will someday figure this out!

I'll tell yOu how the day ran according to EASY ( we'll more like how it never) and maybe you'll ( or someone out there) can give me some guidance.

WU 5:15, Hubby went in to soothe her but she was wide awake and tried playing with him. He came back in to our took to ask me what should be our next move....by that time she began crying. He went back in to console and got her back in sleepy mode

S 5:40
A 6:41
E 7:00
S 9:18( began soothing at 8:30 as was aiming for 8:55)
A 9:58
E 10:30
S12:19
A12:36 (so frustrating!) went back in to resettle
S 12:57
A 1:22 tried to resettle again but she was too awake ( albeit rubbing eyes and fussy)
E 1:30
S 3:44. ( I would have tried sooner but we had a play date neither my friend from away and her two children... I think maybe overstimulating?)
A 4:01 ( ugh! Tried to resettle, she went back down for only 5 minutes)
A 4:07
E 4:22 ( earlier than I should but she was fussy and I knew I would be likely trying an earlier BT)
BT routine started 6:14... Later than I planned but hubby was late getting home)
E 6:40
S 7:08
It is 9:30 pm here now, so I can report on night waking a and feedings in AM ....please dear God we sleep tonight!

These short awful naps have made it so hard to follow an EASY schedule...and I am nowhere near the wake times for a 6 month old.  Should I keep trying 2:15 A time tomorrow? Should I extend it or decrease it to look for a better first nap? More stimulating, less? I am determined to get to the bottom of this!
Going to interrupt nap ( wake to sleep) or to catch transition phase is so hard to do right now because there is no set time that she is waking anymore.

Do your think that the early morning WU is part of the problem? I have gotten better naps when she was waking 7 or later, but these days she wake around 5 everyday...sometimes goes back easy herself or with help and other times up for the day! But of course that was weeks ago, so to are many factors I know.

[Jodes112]

The naps are often less than 25/30 mins arent they, which makes me wo der if she is comforable. Is she teething? What is her nature like theough the day is she grumpy at all?

Also where does she nap? Do u swaddle her, does she have a dummy?

Im tempted to say go for the age appropriate A time and see it out. As the short oneisnt getting you any better nap you may aswell pushbit out and aloow it to settle on its own. Try for 2hr45/3 hr A time.

Usually the earlt wake is due to the day prior (or it was for us) and indicated UT for us. But your LO is definatley OT. It could be that pushing the A times could help the EW.
Msorry it isnt getting easier yet!

Just keep going, well done for keeping calmer x

[Amycf]

The last two days have been pretty much th same, I hate to report, except she is not sleeping as well as th nights previous ( when she crashed!)

Yesterday she lasted 40 mins for nap one ( 2.15 wake time before... Since she had had an early waking). Nap two was 20 mins then 5 minutes soothing and then another 28(?), nap three was the best of them all ( not that I want to be doing that many naps at this age) at 60 mins - her wake time was 2 hr 45 mins, due to me being out and then needing to feed her. Her night was strange though- she woke 2.5 hrs after BT crying so hard. DH went up since it was not time to feed and to give mommy a break, but she starts to really loose it, she was crying so hard and flaying arms and pushing him away, but when I went up she started to calm right down and fell asleep in my arms aft some cuddles and a quick feed.
Is she at that age now where she is becoming attached to me? I felt so bad that DH felt rejected.
She woke again another 2 hrs later and then at 5:15 ( feeding) and an hour later for good.

Needless to say she was OT this morning I think ( we all were!!!) she went down at 8:30  for nap one and it lasted just 40 mins again! Nap two was worse 30 mins - she was clearly OT as she took forever to go down . Nap 3 was no better. She was hard to put down at BT tonight and needed a lot of rocking.

My husband and I are beginning to really argue about all of jpg his and I am getting emotional He really think we need to let her just CIO as many of friends have done, but I don't think that that will solve things and I don't know if I could bear it. This is really becoming a big source of stress and a wedge between us:(

Do you think that her falling asleep independently wealthy of really help naps? Usually she does well at night ( she used to anyways!) and only woke for feelings. I thought that day sleep and night sleep are different, but now I am not so sure. I think that the early waking a contribute to at least a part of the problem- it makes it so difficult to decide how much wake time she needs to get a good first nap!!

Any ideas? I really don't want to be fighting everyday with lo for naps and then DH about parenting- so exhausting physically and emotionally 

Thanks for listening.
A

[Amycf]

I forgot to answer your questions , sorry!

My lo sleeps in a crib in her own room, with a white noise machine, in a sleep bag. She was swaddled up to 5 months and it really worked for her well until she started breaking out of it and it was a fight to keep her in it, so we slowly weaned her off. She slept in a bassinet next to our bed until 4 months 3 weeks.
She is a content and smiley little girl and most people comment at how bright and happy she looks. That is until she so overtired and as her mommy I can see it well...red eyes form all the rubbing, burying her face in me and will no longer play ( wants to be in my arms). But this is usually not till around supper time, or just before a nap time if I wait too long.

I think that she is teething, but I have been thinking that for almost 2 months, haha! But every few day she'll get rosy cheeks, and need to chew on everything , and so much drool , but when I check her mouth this nothing poking through yet!

[Jodes112]

Im sorry it hasnt gotten much better.

I think now if i were you id just start putting down at 2.45/3hr & see how you get on wih that. Generally a 40/45 min nap means UT so it donfirm that the first nap is too soon, after 2hr 15 A.

The bad night could just be a reflection of the day in that she is OT or UT and it is making her uncomfortable.

Please dont CIO. It's not something that baby whisperer reccomends. I understand the feeling when you are desperate for her to settle, especially when you are so tired too. If you have a look on the shss pat board there's lots of help there on how you can help settle using that technique. It is possible that she recognises you ar this age and also that she finds more comfort in you.

Extend that A time and see how you go. Hang on in there x

[Amycf]

I'm sorry that I haven't checked in in awhile. Things have been crazy and here and I had ( still have) a bad bead cold:(
I just want to let you know ( despite a horrific night last night ( she was awake from her 11 pm feeding right to 3:30 am with fits of crying,,.we are trying to figure out what on earth went wrong...hence me on the computer today! And subsequently incredibly overtired,yielding 10 minute naps before crying today!) that things were improving !

Last week I bit the bullet Tuesday morning and went for 2:50 awake time, despite her sleepy cues that starts after 2 hrs. It lead us to an 1 hr 26 min nap!!!!:) I was soooo happy with the success. The en t day I tried the same, and got a 55 min nap - not perfect but better than the 30/40 min naps we were getting. For some reason though, I could not get the afternoon nap to go much better. In fact I had to do q couple of car naps to keep her form being way too overtired for bedtime.
If we ever get through today and tonight ( mommy and daddy are running on 3 hrs broken sleep - which happened with her co - sleeping, something that we never do but we were desperate !!), I am going to try 3 hrs awake times this week.

Any tips on braking the OT cycle?? I'll make a separate post for that I guess!

[Jodes112]

Well done for just throwing yourself in & stretching out the A time! & great that it worked!

Im wondering since its out of the blue could she be getting your cold? Hope you are feeling better soon.

Id do super ealry bed time - 6pm & see how you go. She will eventually catch up. Sometimes you have bad nights but she will catch up in one way or another. Id keep with the lengthened A times though since they worked, and see if she will flake and do a mega nap. X

[Amycf]

As you guessed, she ended up with my cold poor child:( She was very congested by last evening and I could tell that her fussiness was more than ovtertired. I went ahead and started bedtime routine an hour earlier and heave her a nice long warm bath, after I used saline and nose sucker on her tiny little nose. She went to sleep fairly easy, but was up again an hour later and had to be rocked for 20 mins. The night went much smoother than the previous though, although it was not without its frustrating wakings of course, but to be expected given her cold and how overtired she was. She woke 10:30 and after feeding, it took an hour and a half to get her back to sleep.Thankfully after that she only woke at 3 for a feeding ( which took some resettling again, maybe 20 mins) and then slept till almost 7, which is huge for us!

I was unsure how to approach naps today, given our current situation. I decided on 2:30 awake time this morning- it got us a 35 min nap:(. So I soothed and resettled by rocking for about 15 mins and that extended it by another 40 mins! Then this afternoon I went for only 2:15, since I figured that the 35 min naps was due to be ping overtired ( she would not have gone back for another 40 if she wasn't right?). Well...that only got us 27 mins:( I ran up quickly this time,and only had to rock for 10 mins to get her back to sleep. She has now been sleeping for another hour!!
I am lost about what is due to overtired and being undertired. I figure I'd go its ovtird theory today due to her cold.

Ooh she's up again!! Better go!

Amy

[Jodes112]

I think when they are poorly you just have to go with the flow of thing. Generally with a poorly spell comes rubbish sleep, unfortunately so i wouldt dwell on the bad naps until she is totally well again and can focus properly on it again. 30 min naps can also mean they are just uncomfortable so the cold could be causing these because she cant get through the sleep cycle as she's is feeling poorly.

Hope you have a better night. I find vicks vapor rub in a tub of boiling water, 30 mins in the bedroom before bedtime, with the door shut, really helps prep the room to clear their throat and nose! Especially since its worse when they are laying down!

Just get through the cold as best u can then focus back on sleep once its gone!

[Amycf]

Thanks for the tip!
I think she is coming round a bit. Didn't struggle with nursing today really, and doesn't sound as congested. Still very very fussy though, I think part of it is the cold and part her awful lack of sleep lately. Here's hoping tonight's a better night, and a better day tomorrow!
As soon as she is completely better I am going to revisit awake times and get on track!