PUPD without day schedule?

[tipofthetree]

Hi,

I have a few questions about whether or not to implement a sleep strategy for our 16 week old. He sleeps enough that it's manageable (tends to wake for feed 10pm, 1am-ish, 4am-ish). But not great long term unless it improves. See his rough daily schedule below questions.

• Are babies likely to teach themselves to fall asleep themselves if they're always fed / rocked / push chaired to sleep? Last night he woke as mum was putting him down. She continued to sing to him with her hand on him and he fell asleep. It was one of very few times this has ever happened and felt like a success.
• Is 16 weeks old too early to start the PUPD method?
• Can you implement the PUPD method if there is not a structured daytime routine? There is a vague structure to his day (see below).
• His cycle tends to be AESY rather than EASY. Is that a problem when trying to implement PUPD?
• How can dad help with PUPD? I gather switching between mum and dad during a single cycle of PUPD is counterproductive as too stimulating. Dad do one night and mum the next (except for when we’re sure he needs a feed – then she feeds and dad does the PD)? Rotate each time he wakes?
• Does mum need to continue PUPD for naps during the day?
• Does he have to be put down in his cot for naps, or just down somewhere, i.e. couch / our bed duvet?
• Is him falling asleep in the pushchair detrimental to training?
• When it says “put down as soon as they stop crying” does that mean silent, or does whimpering but calmer count as not crying?

His rough daily schedule
7am - wake up (open curtains, turn lights on, take him out of grobag / change him into day clothes)
7-8:30 - Activity
8:30-9 - Feed (followed by sleep - either fed to sleep or falls asleep on a walk. Can fall asleep very quick in buggy

I'm not sure about timings in the day as i'm not there. But I think nap lengths are irregular and are either as a result of being fed to sleep or on a walk. Can usually sustain approx. 2 hrs awake before mum tries to get him to sleep.

6:30-7:30 - Dad's home. Activities.
7:30pm - "top and tail", put in sleep wear and growbag and I try to read him a story until he gets too fussy. Story lasts max of 5 mins
8:00pm - Mum nurses him to sleep. Keeps him upright to let milk go down. Sings to him while manoeuvring to the cot to put him down while still asleep.
10:00pm - Wakes for another feed. Keeps him upright to let milk go down. Sings to him while manoeuvring to the cot to put him down while still asleep.
1-2am - Wakes for another feed (fed to sleep as above). If he doesn't go down, I try rocking him / blast white noise to get him to sleep.
4-5am - wakes for another feed (fed to sleep as above).  If he doesn't go down, I try rocking him / blast white noise to get him to sleep.
5-7am - often awake before 7. If he grumbles I try to rock him to sleep or let him sleep on me in a chair till it's almost 7am to let mum get some more sleep.

[Kellyjs]

Hi and welcome to BW 

Personally I would start with ssh/pat at this age, i'll post a link about it at the end. Pu/pd can be used from 4mo onwards, but ideally we like to try ssh/pat first as pu/pd can irritate some bubbas.

What i'd like to do if you are willing, is for you to post what today or yesterday looked like for me in real time. I would really like to get an idea of exactly what goes on there and nap lengths etc, so we can help formulate a plan for you.

I do think we might have to tackle the falling asleep whilst feeding. That can quickly turn into a prop and it's quite hard to see if they are able to sleep over a sleep cycle when a prop like that is in place. It's not too much of a problem and nothing we can't sort out at all  .

If your DP is able to rouse him slightly if he does fall asleep feeding, then place him in the cot. She can then use her sshing or soft singing with her hand on his back. What I used to do is lessen the pressure ever so slightly after 10 seconds or so and be ready to reapply if she started up again. Then hopefully he'll start to drift off into a deeper sleep on his own.

We will really need to see what teh day looks like in order to sort the nights out for you too i'm afraid. You're doing all you can and I can see that. Is he BF, i forgot to ask? It's not unusual for BF LO's to have 3 NF's at this age, but I would like to check and see how much he's feeding during the day too to make sure he's not reverse cycling and trying to catch up on lost calories at night too. If he's FF does he drain all his bottles? Preferably we like to see 1-2 ounces left behind so we know their stopping because they are full and not because it's run out.

There are growth spurts to contend with at various points which can lead to an extra NF creeping in, but usually that starts to phase out within a week or so once they get caught up.

Ok, think that might get you started, but please do pop back to post a day in real time it'll be so helpful. In the meantime here's some links for you to read through xx

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Shush-pat - How to

SLEEP FACTS

Teaching Sleep- Tips from the boards