16 week sleep regression...changes in sleep patterns?

[crazy mummy]

Hi. I am new to this site. I have read A LOT about sleeping and bought the baby whisperer book as I am obsessed with my little ones sleep (probably like most parents here).  She is going to be 4 months this weekend.
Her bed time has always been between 630 and 730pm and she tends to sleep for 8 to 9 hours straight.  Except yesterday which was the 1st time she woke up at 3,4,5,6 and 7am (4 month sleep regression?).  I do the usual bath etc prior to bed and put her down awake.  She falls a sleep by herself.

For the past 3 weeks I have also established a nap routine as her naps were really non existent or in the buggy before then.  (I was too focused on not being able to BF and expressing 4/5 times a day).  She is excellent at putting herself to sleep during nap time.  I have tried the 4s routine but instead of swaddle I put her in a sleeping bag.  Also she hates me holding her prior to sleeping.  She tends to want to be put down and sleep on her own (which is great I guess. Though the selfish part of me would love to hold her for sometime).  The problem is that she tends to wake up between 23 and 31 minutes and can't enter the deep cycle.  Sometimes she wakes up and is not grumpy and other times she is.  She has managed on odd occasions to sleep for 45 min to over an hour or 2.

I have bought a swing (mamaroo) in the hope of better naps but haven't used it much unless I am desperate.  I have also darkened the room (black out curtains, black out blind, tin foil) and use background music/womb noise. 

I have also tried the wake to sleep method a few times and succeeded twice with it.  Other time she wakes up and we have a battle of me wanting to keep patting her and she trying to move my hands away from her so she can wake up.  The shh pat has worked a few times but more often then not she gets upset and starts crying, at which point I stop trying to put her back to sleep.

The questions I have:

1) Why has she suddenly for the past 3/4 days been waking up between 20 and 35 min?  It used to be 45min before this.

2) Why is it that there have been odd days when she managed at least 50min by herself?

3) Are the wake to sleep and shhh pat a temporary solution? I am very worried about creating a prop.

4) Will she eventually start taking long naps or is she a cat napper?

5) With PU PD, how am I supposed to make her stop crying on picking up because she doesn't stop crying until I switch the lights on or walk out of the room with her.

6) What am I suppose to expect with the 4 month sleep regression.  I have never rocked or fed her to sleep so I am fairly certain there are no props involved.

Thank you

Crazy mummy

[Bella89]

Hi there,
I will try to help you, but might not be an expert in a shh pat as my DS always hated it.
1. Yes, it might have been a regression so it changed, but it's always like this. It goes well and they go into a developmental leap or growth spurt and it changes.We have to correct the routine and make it work all over again.
2. This is a very difficult question that I don't have an answear to unfortunately.
3. wake to sleep and shh pat are meant to solve the problem and cannot be a prop. They are not creating another problems, so don't worry.
4. I don't think she is a cat napper, because you said she slept well before. Or did I misunderstood you? Were her naps always that short?
5. Is it possible, that picking her up frustrates her even more? It seems to me like you are trying so many different things. Shh pat, PUPD, swing etc. Here I would suggest to try the method that you think work the best and stick with it to let her know this is how she is supposte to sleep.wdyt?
6. First of all - it will pass. Maybe she learned to do something new, like roll over? If you feel like rocking to sleep is not something you want to do - by all means do not do it. Some AP can get us nowhere and the situation is even worse then.

Let's see if there is something we can do to help her.
Could you write down your routine for me in a n EASY format?
7:00 WU
7:30 E
9:30 S .....

[crazy mummy]

Hi Bella89

Thank you so much.  Sorry for the late reply.  EASY format below: though LOs wake up time varies between 6 and 7
6.52 WU
7.10 E
8.40 S for 11min
9.20 put back to S 18min
11.00 E
11.35 S: used shs pat at 15min for 20-30min slept 1hr 25min
1500 E
1630 S
1810 E
1850 S

I am trying to keep 4 hours between feeds but as her naps are not consistent it is more difficult.  I try to leave as much time as poss between feeds.

Yes, you are right regarding using so many techniques.  I am going to stick to shh pat as it seems to work 60% of the time.
She used to sleep for roughly 45min before, recently this has reduced to around 31min and sometimes even less.  I have resorted to standing next to her from around 15min into her nap as she tends to stir around 20min. I then have to shh pat her for almost 25min for her to stay a sleep.

No, she hasn't learnt anything new: she likes to sit up - but obviously she is too young to do be able to do that by herself 

Thanks

[Bella89]

I'm just making sure, she had 2 naps for 1.5h roughly? Midday and afternoon.

I feel like when her A time is longer, she has better naps. But on the other hand why she refused her morning nap? Was she OT UT? What do you think?

[crazy mummy]

Hi, yes she had 2 long naps but they were kind of 4 separate naps.  She wakes up at roughly 31min and then there is a lot of shh pat and crying to get her to sleep again. Also one of the combined naps was because I went out and she fell a sleep in the sling.

I honestly don't know now.  I and trying to get her to bed when I see signs of tiredness but am not sure if I am stuck in a UT or OT cycle.  She wakes up at roughly 31min no matter what.

Also the last 4 days her night sleep has been really really bad. Thus the late reply. She wakes up al,oat every her or 2. Not hungry. Just awake and not sleeping. When I do get her to sleep its for 28 to 31min.
Also she tends to wake up in the morning at 530amand doesn't go back to sleep till at least 630.  Is that normal?

I am kind of going crazy over here. X

[Bella89]

Hi there,
sorry I didn't respond sooner. Our family took a short vacay and promised DH to be offline

No, it's not normal. I think I can honestly say that because you sound like you know something is not right. Moms are always right.
Something is bothering her and she is just tired.

2 naps for 4 month old sounds like not a lot to be honest. Most LOs start sleeping twice a day around 6-7 months. Are you aiming for that or is it just what comes out of her not wanting to sleep?

Let's try to see what it is right now.
Please, write down what was going on yesterday and let's start with that hmm?

[Bella89]

I just remembered the most obvious explanation (but unfortunately it's not helpful at all).
Most babies go to 4month sleep regression when it becomes a nightmare and it all passes.
But let's try to help her either way

[crazy mummy]

Hello. Apologies for late reply.  Yes, I thought it might be that.  She has never been great at napping but it is slowly improving again.  She managed a 1hr nap today.  The rest were 40min an d 32min and 17min.

I actually have another problem now: I don't know how this happened: may be because she has a cold and I was trying very hard not to let her cry as that would have blobked her nose even more adn then being unable to breath properly wouldn't have slept properly which would mean more crying....basically she now only naps in the swing.  She doesn't need the swing turned on.  She needs it rocking at the start and then she sleeps.  ?If I put her for a nap in the cot she cries and cries.  How do I solve this problem 

[crazy mummy]

o and now shh pat no longer works.  She hates it and arches her back and cries if I try to use it

[Bella89]

If you're sure she's healthy you can slowly teach her back into sleeping in the cot.
I don't know if anyone would suggest something else, but I would personally not put her in the swing. What I am trying to say is, I wouldn't move her from swing to cot when she's drowsy but instead start putting her down in the cot straight away.
My DS was the same, hated shh pat from the start, instead I held his hand and rubbed his cheeks. Have you tried this?

[crazy mummy]

Hi.  I tried that today: held her hand and stroked her cheek/hair and snag to her.  She calmed down: so seems to work - thanks for the tip! 
Her naps are still awful though.  Range from 23 to 34 min.

[Bella89]

That's great! And... not so great:/ Can you send over her routine from yesterday to look at?

[crazy mummy]

hi

7.22am awake
E 7.35
S 9.24 - 10.04 39min

E 11.45
S 12.11 - 12.47 36min
S 14.54- 15.16 21min

E 15.30
S 17.20 - 17.55 35min

E 18.55
S 19.43


x

[Bella89]

How is she settling for sleep? Easy/grumpy/crying?

What do you do to help her resettle?

[crazy mummy]

She settles easy and then wakes up. Sometimes she wakes up and is fine - doesn't cry etc. Then I just leave her and restart the clock. If she wakes up crying I try and pat her back to sleep.  95% if the time is doesn't work and I end up slingging her or going for a walk in the pram. I used to get her back to sleep with shh pat but that doesn't work any more.