Author Topic: Catnap and bedtime mess! (Read 2111 times)

labrodyk · « **on:** February 13, 2016, 20:49:42 pm »

Hi ladies!

My 4mo DH is SLOWLY adapting to EASY as she's LSN and has been ahead of average A times since forever. Her naps are still a bit hit and miss (especially as I find reading her cues and A times so difficult) but we do have days where we follow a 4hr EASY to the letter...until catnap time. I'm starting to dread this part of the day.

By the time she's ready for this little nap it's 5/5.30/6 and it's not possible for me to head out for a drive at this time. I've attempted the pram and ergo with no luck! Most of the time I have to put her in her cot and she will SCREAM for a good 15+ minutes before falling asleep for 30 minutes. If I do get the nap in, bedtime is still a disaster and I find she wakes more overnight.

I'd get rid of it completely except she can't last 3 hours and I can't put her down at 5.00!! I'm trying to avoid feeding to sleep so she'll be falling asleep on the bottle and I'll wake her to burp, swaddle and have a shush/pat and then she's wide awake and cries for ages and I then pat her to sleep but her A is then ridiculous!

A good day and night was yesterday and today!

NF: 10.30
NF: 4.30
WU: 6.30 or earlier laying quietly or chatting away
OOB: 7.00
E: 8.00. Breakfast. I completely skipped milk since I'm sick of fighting her and instead gave her some baby porridge and Apple (made with formula) that she smashed
A
S: 8.48; 8.55-10.55. OOB 11.00
E: 11.00 full bottle!
E: bit of solid for lunch
A:
S: 1.10; 1.20-3.20
E: 3.30 full bottle
A:
S: the most difficult sleep EVER! went out to the park and pushed her around in the pram (no luck), drove home and after a cry she fell asleep 10 mins at the absolute max from 5.45-5.55 roughly.
E: 6.15. A little rice cereal and some fruit
A: bath, massage, pj's
E: 6.50.
BT: 7.13; asleep 7.35. Quietly chatting and drifting off.
NW: 3.48. Woke happy? Then crying escalated so i fed her
WU. 6.35, chatting and happy but fell back to sleep at 6.55! Woke her at 7.20

E: 7.30, 50ml top up
A:
S: 9.30; cried during wind down but quiet in my arms shush/pat then cried and fussed in bed. Slept from 9.35 but was awake when I checked the monitor at 10.20. Laying awake, no crying but has the hiccups! Amazingly she managed to fall asleep again by herself from 10.40-11.20!

Do you think I have her A time WAY off? Has she extended already or do I need to pull A time back? Hmmm, coupled with the catnap issue I'm SO confused. Perhaps she thought the additional morning sleep falling back to sleep at 7am was her first nap? I wasn't sure what to do there.

HOWEVER! Not so great days include naps no greater than 30 or 40 minutes and awake crying and me trying to settle DH for hours! I'm at a real loss and can't wait for her to drop it so we can get a good 2 naps going for a while!

Sorry, would love your thoughts! Thanks in advance.

Laura
x

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2016, 06:40:36 am »

How long has she been on solids for? LSN aside just wondering if some of her fussiness is down to tummy trouble as tbh that seems like a lot of solids so young! My DD3 was on 2 naps at this age though so not out of the realm of possibility!

labrodyk · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2016, 13:32:11 pm »

About 4 weeks of solids now but I can tell you that even before solids she has NEVER taken those afternoon naps and I've been trying for AGES. the girls on the EASY Forum have been helping me massively but we're at a loss of how to get her to take this catnap.
She's not at all fussy the rest of the day during her A time and her night time sleep is much improved. Bowel movements normal and regular - she just won't go down for that last nap unless it's kicking and screaming in her cot!

The rest of our day today went like this;
A:
S: 1.20; 1.30-3.35 (woke her!)
E: 3.30, most of her bottle
A:
S: 6.20-6.30 after screaming in the car. Was happy from 4.30-5.30. Got her out at our destination and did nappy change and brief wind down cuddle before back in the car. Would not even entertain the idea of going to sleep - I had the white noise going, car was moving and I even through a blanket over the capsule at one point to block out stimulation, but then we got caught in traffic.
BT: 7.58, asleep 8.11 or slightly after.

It's a VERY impractical time for me to attempt a drive given I need to get diner for DS and him into bed too. Unless I let her fight it for 15+ minutes in her cot and then she'll have 30 minutes. I could then try and work out a decent A time until bed from there but it's very stressful and BT then comes a lot later than I'd like...

Happy to pull back the solids and see what happens but given she drinks very small bottles (100-120ml at MOST) I'm finding the extra food helping. Before the solids she had a massive growth spurt jumping from the 50th to over 80th percentile for weight and height (7.1kg and 64cm).

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2016, 04:17:04 am »

Honestly the only way I kept the catnap was to hold DD3 and let her fuss it up before she zonked out (mind you she was only.on two naps at this point - but we had the same issue with the last nap prior to 4 months - I used to wear her for that nap!). I held out with it when on 3 naps until I could eke out enough A time to do 2 naps.

labrodyk · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2016, 07:37:34 am »

Oh I wish I could wear her! Nothing works!

She did a naps of;

WU: 6.53
Nap1: 9.15;9.25-10.02
Nap2: 12.44; 12.45-3.30
BT: 5.50; 6.00-6.20. Laying awake. Whinged a bit but mostly tossed and turned and fell back to sleep at 7.00!

We did take the swaddle away but that second nap was without it and she fell asleep at bedtime and resettled.

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2016, 14:16:16 pm »

That was a whopper of a nap after a long A time - do you suppose she is very lsn? Might be worth trying to extend the morning A a bit more and see how that nap goes. Hope the night went well!

labrodyk · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2016, 20:28:49 pm »

Yes, I suppose she is quite LSN but she does cross the border from happy to overtired very quickly and unnoticeably. Still smiling and happy....until you try and put her down.

I feel like I'm just winging her entire day, each day, with no consistency. If I am attempting to do 2 naps as opposed to 3 do I;

* wake her in the morning?
* wake her from naps?
* keep a 12hr day or does it matter if this is reduced to 10 or 11.

My instinct at the momen is to let sleeping baby sleep but I've been trying so hard to get a consistent EASY that I don't know anymore...

So she finally fell asleep at 7pm
NF: 11.30
Then woke at 5.30 but should I have resettled here? She wasn't even really hungry crying but she drank a bottle but now won't drink anything at WU of 7.30!

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2016, 04:33:17 am »

Did she go back to sleep at the 5:30 feed? At that age I did that feed because it was a simple way to get more sleep! Not a morning person at all!!

As for waking and keeping consistent - I had to wake my DD3 for school runs and bedtime was set in stone (by her - 8 pm was when she went to bed for the night from birth!) so I allowed the naps to be where she caught up if she wanted too. 1st nap mostly as her 2nd nap was squeezed in between school pick up and supper!

Do you think she will tack on to night sleep if she has a shorter day? That could totally work to bridge the gap until she can consistently do longer A times.

labrodyk · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2016, 06:28:57 am »

This was our night/day today! Complete mess to be honest... I'm not a morning person either!

NF: 11.30
NF: 5.30. Perhaps I should have resettled here rather than feed as she wasn't really hungry crying. Fell back to sleep at 6.00
WU: 7.30
E: wouldn't drink until close to 9
S: 9.40; 9.45-10.32
^?Lay awake until 11 when she started to whinge and get cranky.
Arms out of swaddle with bonds zippy suit.
E: had to force a bottle for hours from 11.30, completely disinterested
S: 12.50; 1.00/1.05-1.43
~ laying awake, kicking her legs until 2.20.
Mantra crying and trying to settle. Rolled onto side and played with lovey/comforter from 2.40 before getting really cranky so I got her up at 2.50.
E: 3.20. Had to feed her in the dark and hold her arms down so she'd drink properly!
A:
S: 4.37; rolling and crying, had to roll her back to back just before 5.00-5.20. Rolling around.
A
E: wouldn't drinking here either...
S: 6.45; crying and rolled from back to tummy constantly had to roll over. She eventually fell asleep on her tummy after I'd rolled her back countless times but not until 7.28!

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2016, 04:58:22 am »

So does she show tired signs at all or do you try to run off A times? I know my last two were hard to read for tired signs by 4/5 months. Those 45 min naps seem like possibly ut, wdyt?

As for rolling - can she roll back yet? I remember DD1 started rolling to her tummy and I slept in her room for a few nights to make sure she could roll back, as nerve wracking!

labrodyk · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2016, 05:21:06 am »

Her tired signs are completely unreliable. Eye rubbing is a big one but she might do that after an hour awake! She's happy and smiley even when she's exhausted. Except when it comes to a time she might fall asleep (like the car or pram, then she cries and has a short nap usually 20 minutes at the most).

Naps are getting shorter and shorter and today has been a mix of 40, 2 x 20 naps at random times but between 2-2.5 A. It's a real nightmare

She can't Roll back to her back but she gets cranky and agitated when she rolls to her tummy so I've been trying to pin her down with a tight sheet over her. Not sure if I should just let her roll and learn to settle there or roll back? At the moment I just keep rolling her back after about 5-10 mins of trying

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2016, 19:42:55 pm »

Ugh yes I know DD3 only showed signs when she was totally done...lol in fact the other night she stayed up a half hour late and I actually saw a yawn! How have the last couple days been?

labrodyk · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2016, 09:40:40 am »

We've had the weirdest few days!!

They've been like this...

WU: 8.10
S: 10.12; 10.21-11.04
^^cried. rolling and getting stuck.
11.12 - rolled her back onto back but rolled to her side again.
S: 11.16-11.22.
^ trying to get to tummy but too tired. I kept rolling back to her back but eventually put her on her tummy

We were driving, put her in the ergo and walked and yet she still wouldn't fall asleep!!
S: 3.50-4.10 finally in the car
E: 4.30
A
E: 6.00 (actually drank another full bottle here...)
S: 6.20; 7.00pm

WU: 6.45, awake laying quietly at 7.00am when I got her up.
OUR FIRST EVER SLEEP THROUGH, OH MY GOSH!!!
Nap1: showed super obvious tired signs (rubbing eyes/yawn), so in bed at 8.37; slept 8.45-11.00!!
We then had her christening so the rest of the day was all over the place.
Nap3: 4.20-4.30 in the car (woke when we stopped at a traffic light!!)
A:
E: 6.15
S: 6.30; 6.50
^^protested/mantra cry for 20 minutes.
NF: 3.00. Tried to resettle for 20 mins but ended up feeding her.
Didn't go back to sleep until 3.55.

Monday 21/2
WU: 7.15, I woke her
E: 7.30
A:
S: 9.20; 9.30-11.34
^^ rubbing eyes during wind down. Crying in my arms and when placed in cot.
S: 1.33; 1.53-2.33. Woke and tried to resettle herself, rolling around but started getting frustrated. OOB 3.00pm
^^great difficulty settling! Cries during wind down and in my arms and when put in cot (for every sleep)
E: 3.30
A:
S: 4.50 (took me 20 minutes before this to try and make her stop whinging and crying). Crying and rolled onto tummy. rolled her back at 5.00pm, asleep on her side at 5.05-5.55
A:
E: 7.30
S: 7.45; 7.58 whinging and crying. went and rolled her from side to back as she was sounding distressed but she just rolled back after 5 minutes and fell asleep at 8.02
NW: 1.37; rolling to side but couldn't roll back. Fussing and crying.
NF: 2.00
S: 2.20

Tuesday 23/2
WU: 6.00, chatting and cooing for 30 minutes before crying.
Still visibly tired but got up and fed her.
E: 6.45
A:
S: 8.38, 8.40. Asleep quickly and little grizzle no big cries like usual. However woke before 9.30! Quietly resettled at 9.40-10.30
E: 10.30
A:
S: 12.40; 12.45-1.30; 1.33-2.28
^cried as soon as we entered the bedroom, all through wind down and into bed as I left the room. Woke but resettled. Awake by 2.28
E: 2.30
A:
S: 4.36; 4.45-5.15
E: a little solids
A:
E: 6.30 milk
S: 6.50; 7.09
^^asleep by 7.09 after DH rolled her back from her side as she was screaming. Then rolled back to it and fell asleep.

Should I roll her back to her back so she doesn't get distressed later in the night or is that not teaching her anything?

Can you see anything I'm doing wrong!? I would really really really like to get Audrey to go down happy and not cry from the second we enter the bedroom. It's not just her bedroom at home either; it's the same where she sleeps at my parents two nights a week. Should I really pull the A times back and put her down earlier??

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2016, 05:59:32 am »

Does she do an all out "I need you" type cry or is it just a really loud mantra cry? DD2 had a weirdly loud mantra and it took me ages to figure it out! Hmm tough call...you could try shorter A times for a few days and see how it goes, but keep in mind it just may be her way of reacting to naptime regardless. I would give it a shot though just in case - she did do that one big nap after an awesome night and not a huge A time.

labrodyk · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2016, 08:20:40 am »

Sorry!! I was editing my post as you messaged!

She's loud alright but she protests in my arms and from the second we enter the bedroom. I don't usually respond to naptime or bedtime calling and I have a tendency to let her cry. Except where it really does sound distressed and that's usually when I've pushed the A way too far, especially in the afternoon and she hasn't taken that third nap.

What would you suggest for A times? I've been packing her up and aiming to have her in bed at 2hrs-2hr15 depending on tired signs which I tried to follow more today. Should I be looking for her to be asleep at this time or even earlier?

Also - she fell asleep on her side at 7.10pm but has woken at 8.26pm and 9.15pm crying and trying to roll either to her tummy or back and can't! She gets stuck on her side. I rolled her back but she takes ages to resettle. Grrrr i don't know how to handle all these wakings!

labrodyk · « **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2016, 08:26:00 am »

This was our day today? What are your thoughts? I THINK I have that first A ok to be ASLEEP by 2hrs. I say that but tomorrow could be different again...

Wednesday 24/2
WU:
OOB: 6.50
E: 7.00
A:
S: 8.45; 8.50-11
^^ no crying.
E: 11.00
A:
S: 1.20-2.00 (car)
E: 3.00
A:
S: 3.50; 4.05-4.45
^^ no crying...
E:
A:
E:
S: 6.32; 7.18!!
^^ no crying, quiet for 20 minutes. Not sure if I stuffed this up using a sleep positioner to try and keep her on her back (and she got frustrated) or if she was UT or OT.

*Ali* · « **Reply #16 on:** February 27, 2016, 20:39:52 pm »

Sorry you haven't had a response to your last few posts. Heidi hasn't been around much and we missed her request for someone to pick up where she left off.

I'd say the shorter A times seem to be helping with the settling to sleep without crying, no?

When my DD got OT she often had happy, longish NWs that sounded UT but we're really the opposite. Unable to relax due to the residual OT hormones I guess.

If your DD is doing a real, I-need-you cry rather than just mantra/fussing then we'd ways encourage you to attend to her rather than leave her to cry alone. Sorry if I misunderstood your earlier post about this but it sounded like you were letting her cry it out? That can break the bond on trust and make LOs stressed and more needy.

How have the last few days been?

labrodyk · « **Reply #17 on:** February 27, 2016, 23:05:29 pm »

Hi Ali!

That's ok, thank you for the continued support - I really appreciate it.

Yes, I think the shorter A times are helping. These are our last few days but I'm just still struggling with that catnap in the PM and unsure whether I should push her A even in the slightest. I'm aiming to have her asleep by 2hrs or just after for all sleeps and BT. She is waking after that first sleep cycle but has recently started resettling herself quietly so i'm unsure whether to leave her to it as she's going down with far less fuss as she used to (apart from the late PM nap) or push her A a tad?

I'm trying to get rid of that early morning feed mainly because she doesn't eat a THING when she has it, even when it was earlier like 1am. I have a feeling she might be cold at this time because once I added a blanket and patted her last night she did fall back to sleep. what are your thoughts on this? She sleeps through the whole night at my parent's house 2 nights a week so I can't quite pinpoint why she'd do that there and not at home - perhaps the portable cot is warmer/smaller than her cot at home? This is another reason why I'm trying not to feed her if I can help it.

Here are our last few days.
Saturday 27/2
WU: 7.00
E: 7.15
A:
E: solids
S: 8.50; 8.55 - before 10.30
E: 11.00 (180ml)
A:
E: solids
A:
S: 12.35; 12.40-2.00. 2.20-3.00 (resettled herself quietly)
E: 3.00 (180ml)
A:
S: 4.55; absolutely detested being put dow. dozed for a while after protesting and slept 5.20-5.40.
E: solids
A:
E: 6.55 (180ml)
BT: 7.15; 7.30
NW: 3.47-5.00. Mantra cry for a little while then I patted her for some time and then she lay quietly and fell back asleep by 5, I think.

Sunday 28/2
WU: 6.45
OOB: 7.00
E: 7.00 (120ml)
A:
E: solids
S: 8.55; 9.00-9.42. 9.47-...

I am most definitely not leaving her to cry it out. She has an extremely loud 'yell' and mantra cry. If she's distressed and needs me I'm most definitely there by her side but most of the time she just has an amazing set of lungs

*Ali* · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2016, 23:16:16 pm »

Maybe she sttn when away from home because she knows mummy isn't around? She probably does stir but resettles herself silently perhaps.
If she is still taking the CN, even after a little protest then I'd just keep at it for now. Their A times change so quickly at this age that in a coupe of weeks she may drop it and be able to handle the longer A times.

labrodyk · « **Reply #19 on:** February 27, 2016, 23:23:07 pm »

I sleep in the same room as her when we're there! lol.

yes she's not ready to drop it yet but it makes the evenings very late and stressful. I've tried APing it in the swing, carrier, car, pram, my arms with absolutely no luck...

*Ali* · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2016, 08:41:09 am »

Oh right. Maybe it is something environmentmental then.

I'd persist with the cot nap if other ways aren't helpful. It is only for another month I'd say. Then if you can get 2x 2hr naps you could probably do 3x 2hr40 A times.

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Author Topic: Catnap and bedtime mess! (Read 2111 times)