Author Topic: 14mo nap wars and NWs + crib bumpers question  (Read 608 times)

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Offline LaraDaisy

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14mo nap wars and NWs + crib bumpers question
« on: February 16, 2016, 20:43:42 pm »
Hello dear ladies!
I need your help with my 14mo spirited guy. He has never been a good napper, from 2 till 8 months I was struggling with short naps (he slept longer only on me), but after 8 months the situation improved a bit and when we were at home (not visiting family) he would have two naps per day and it was relatively easy to put him down: when he was showing signs of tiredness I would take him to his crib and he would fall asleep all by himself. About 2 months ago he started being difficult to put down for naps, he has a very strong FOMO I think.
3 weeks ago he was sick and of course nights and naps were a disaster but now he has been well for about 1 week and a half and I want to stop having what feels like screaming fights with my son to put him down for a nap. Now he just fights me for naps most of the time, some days when he is tired he would nod off while we are reading a book, but any attempt to put him down in his crib results in a lot of screaming, I mean really a lot, I tried to do a wi/pd/wo method for 2 days and gave up because I just cannot take that much screaming and I am also a bit scared for his health as he would get so wound up that he would be kind of choking/coughing and then I pick him up and he would fall asleep in my arms anyway, but then sobbing and shaking and screaming in his sleep from time to time. After 2 days of trying to put him down for a nap with so much trouble I just gave up and I let him fall asleep in my arms and then transfer him to his crib or put him next to me in our bed.
Important to note that somehow the BT is not affected, I guess having a clear bottle-bath-bed routine since birth at least helps with that.
I will post our last couple of days that I was writing down:
sunday 14/02
WU 6-30
S 9-30 (was freaking out because of tiredness and was falling asleep in my arms, I let him fall asleep wait for -10 min and hen put him in his crib), I woke him up at 10-05 to have enough time for a 2nd nap
S 13-45 till 15-00 (slept next to me in our bed)
BT 19-15
NWs: ~23, ~2, ~5

monday 15/02
WU 6-50
S 12-00 till 13-20 - he cried a lot, and was kinda hysterical, arching his back, screaming, kicking around, it was quite intense and scary, then I walked and rocked him back to sleep for about 10 min but he woke up the moment I tried to slide him down next to me in our bed, so he slept from 13-50 till 14-00 or so
BT 19-20
NWs ~ 21, ~4 - at 4 he would quiet down for 10 min, then would start screaming again, I was in and out of his room for 1 hr, but at ~5 he fell asleep with 6-40

tuesday 16/02
WU 6-40
And i could not put him down till 13-30, he fell asleep quite easy (in my arms while reading a book), I put him down next to me in our bed, he woke up at 14-10 - again screaming, kicking and fighting me hysterically but then fell back asleep till 14-50 (fist in my arms, then next to me) , at 14-50 woke up screaming
BT 19-10

Also, as you can see from above, we are suffering from NWs, when he wakes up and then stands up at night and screams. I try to do wi/wo, but if he is standing up I go in, put him down, pat his back and walk out. Is this the right approach for NWs? Because he started having them about a week ago and most of the nights it is around 23, then 2, then 5.
And yes, we are in the very midst of 2-1 transition, some days he sleeps 2 times, some days one.

So, any idea how to put my spirited guy for a nap without having my eardrums pierced and his nervous system destroyed???
And additional question about crib bumpers: are they safe to use at this age? Because now he sleeps in a travel cot with mesh sides that we borrowed from a friend and now have to give back, but we also have a proper baby bed, so we could buy a set of bumpers and transfer him into baby bed. Or we could buy a travel cot of our own. Does any of you have experience with crib bumpers and toddlers? Because when I look them up in online shops, they say that they should be removed once the baby can pull himself up to sitting position.

Thanks a lot in advance for your help!!!
Lara

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 14mo nap wars and NWs + crib bumpers question
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2016, 08:10:53 am »
Crib bumpers first - no, I wouldn't use them. They're not necessary and can be dangerous, both as a suffocation hazard for young LOs and a climbing/strangulation hazard for older ones.  Both of mine have slept in a wooden cot with no bumpers from 4 months ish - what makes you think you need the bumpers?  Equally I wouldn't use a travel cot long term really, the mattresses tend not to be that great. I'd just put him in the baby bed (I assume you mean a cot/crib?).

With the naps, it's a tricky time in the 2-1 but I'm not clear from the above whether you have any sort of regular routine that you are aiming for?  I think that's a big help at this age, particular with spirited ones.  Knowing what's coming and when can definitely help with settling.  Do you have a winddown routine, dark room etc?  I'm guessing quite a bit of the difficulties right now may be due to OT.  You have some long A times in there and also I notice your one nap days are fairly long for this stage in the 2-1. I'd probably try some early bedtimes to get him caught up and then aim for something like:

WU 6.30/7
CN around 9.30 for 15-20 mins if needed, otherwise push through to 11.30ish
Nap 11.30 for as long as he will take - resettle if able
BT no more than 4.5-5h after waking up from nap, or latest 7pm even if a good nap. 

What do you think?

Also - any teething right now?  Canines often start putting in an appearance and they can be pretty miserable :(


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Offline sunflower321

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Re: 14mo nap wars and NWs + crib bumpers question
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2016, 09:41:45 am »
Hi. I'm far from an expert, I'm having plenty of my own problems but my dd2 is 14 months too so I said I'd reply. I definitely think you need to move completely to one nap a day regardless of how tired he is. Pick a time and put him down at that time every day. I'd go half an hour either way if he has gotten up particularly early or late. My dd1 had very hsn but still moved to one nap at 14 months. After struggling with 1 and 2 nap days I eventually bit the bullet and did it. She was very hard to get past 11 at the beginning. Even to get her to 11 was hard. I had to get out of the house every day to keep her stimulated to stop her getting cranky. I switched dd2 to one nap at 12 months. It was much easier because she was easy to get through the morning until 12. You might have to change lunch routine too. Dd1 had to nap before lunch because she just could not eat when tired. Dd2 had lunch at 11.30 for a couple of weeks before her nap. Now at 14 months she has lunch at 12  and naps at 12.30 or 1. It'll be tricky but I really think you'll see a difference in naps and night sleep if you switch to one nap.  It's a messy transition and you might see sleep suffer for a week until he adjusts but it will help.
Now I still get NWs and I know this is a huge no no but I give a bottle! It usually puts her back to sleep. I have struggled with pupd for hours during the night but if I give her a bottle she goes back to sleep quicker. I know she doesn't need it but it must calm her down. It's not every night. Last night she slept 7-7:15. I have the bottle warmer beside my bed. I actually did the same with dd1 til I took her off the bottle at 18 months. I'm not advising you to do that cos I know it's not a good idea. I'm just sharing!
I actually love travel cots for so many reasons. The soother doesn't fall out during the night, they don't wake themselves bumping off the sides cos they're soft and when you do travel it's the same type of bed they're used to! I bought an expensive good mattress for mine. I moved dd1 to a cot bed at 22 months because I was about to have dd2.

Offline LaraDaisy

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Re: 14mo nap wars and NWs + crib bumpers question
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2016, 19:53:21 pm »
Hello dear ladies! thank you for your answers and input!

what makes you think you need the bumpers?  Equally I wouldn't use a travel cot long term really, the mattresses tend not to be that great. I'd just put him in the baby bed (I assume you mean a cot/crib?).
We moved him to a crib at about 5-6 mo (no crib bumpers) and once he started turning around we had a lot of issues with him bumping his head against the wooden rails of the bed and waking up because of that. He is an active sleeper and he turns around and sometimes sits up in his sleep (or half sleep) and then kind of falls back on his side or stomach and I am afraid of him hurting his head and waking up more.
And we use a proper crib mattress as our travel cot is the the regular crib size.

With the naps, it's a tricky time in the 2-1 but I'm not clear from the above whether you have any sort of regular routine that you are aiming for?  I think that's a big help at this age, particular with spirited ones.  Knowing what's coming and when can definitely help with settling.  Do you have a winddown routine, dark room etc?  I'm guessing quite a bit of the difficulties right now may be due to OT.  You have some long A times in there and also I notice your one nap days are fairly long for this stage in the 2-1. I'd probably try some early bedtimes to get him caught up and then aim for something like:
WU 6.30/7
CN around 9.30 for 15-20 mins if needed, otherwise push through to 11.30ish
Nap 11.30 for as long as he will take - resettle if able
BT no more than 4.5-5h after waking up from nap, or latest 7pm even if a good nap. 
What do you think?
I like the idea of having a fixed routine, I like the routine you suggested a lot!!! And just about 3 weeks ago we had days like that. But at this moment I am at a loss how to implement one. I do not really care if he sleeps one or two times, but the last couple of weeks winding him down during the day if he is not OT is a mission impossible, he just runs away if I try to sit him down with a book, breaks free if I try to put him in my lap or starts fighting me if I pick him up  (all with a lot of angry screaming) whenever I try to have some quieter activities to wind him down. So, in the last weeks what works as a wind down during the day: reading a book with him in my lap (but only if he comes to me with a book and allows me to put him in my lap), he turns the pages himself and then slowly falls asleep, I hold him for a few minutes and then either put him in his crib or next to me in our bed.
I know that sometimes he has very long A times and it makes me very worried but if he is very strongly resisting any slow down activities I honestly do not know how to shorten them. He is a spirited child.
And right now this is my biggest concern: how to wind him down for his nap when he just fights any attempt to slow down? I read the thread on toddler wind down routines, but they are more oriented at BT, but for BT we have a routine that is working perfectly, but nothing for naps.

Hi. I'm far from an expert, I'm having plenty of my own problems but my dd2 is 14 months too so I said I'd reply. I definitely think you need to move completely to one nap a day regardless of how tired he is. Pick a time and put him down at that time every day. I'd go half an hour either way if he has gotten up particularly early or late. My dd1 had very hsn but still moved to one nap at 14 months. After struggling with 1 and 2 nap days I eventually bit the bullet and did it. She was very hard to get past 11 at the beginning. Even to get her to 11 was hard. I had to get out of the house every day to keep her stimulated to stop her getting cranky. I switched dd2 to one nap at 12 months. It was much easier because she was easy to get through the morning until 12. You might have to change lunch routine too. Dd1 had to nap before lunch because she just could not eat when tired. Dd2 had lunch at 11.30 for a couple of weeks before her nap. Now at 14 months she has lunch at 12  and naps at 12.30 or 1. It'll be tricky but I really think you'll see a difference in naps and night sleep if you switch to one nap.  It's a messy transition and you might see sleep suffer for a week until he adjusts but it will help.

Thank you! It also helps a lot to know that I am not the only one with naps struggles!!!
I have a bit similar approach in the sense that if my attempts to put him down at 9-9*30ish do not work, I do my best to make him last till 11-30ish, then I feed him lunch at around 11. Sometimes he falls asleep right after, sometimes he gets some kind of energy boost from lunch and then only goes down for a nap after 13... Then of course midnap there is a lot of screaming...

I have struggled with pupd for hours during the night but if I give her a bottle she goes back to sleep quicker. I know she doesn't need it but it must calm her down. It's not every night. Last night she slept 7-7:15. I have the bottle warmer beside my bed. I actually did the same with dd1 til I took her off the bottle at 18 months. I'm not advising you to do that cos I know it's not a good idea. I'm just sharing!
Thank you for sharing! I think every mother has to chose what works best for NWs. But I think I would also like to mention that in my experience (and I think it also says so in pu/pd wi/wo guidelines here) picking them up when they are older is way too stimulating, and I can totally confirm that. We had terrible nights beginning of the year when I was picking him up for NWs. Then I read up on wi/wo method and we decided to stop picking him up and after just 2 nights it helped!!! Now he needs either me saying something or a pat on the back to go back to sleep, so his NWs do not last long, whereas before I would pick him up and then would spend 10-20-30 minutes walking around with him in my arms to put him back to sleep and then I would put him down and he would start screaming and the whole cycle of pick-up/walk around/put down could repeat for an hour easily. Oh, it makes me shudder to think back to those days, I was an angry zombi then! So now even though he still wakes up at night I am much less tired, because of course getting up for a couple of minutes is better than being up for hours.
So, if you have enough resolve to try once again, based on our experience, I can totally encourage you!!!

I love travel cots for so many reasons. The soother doesn't fall out during the night, they don't wake themselves bumping off the sides cos they're soft and when you do travel it's the same type of bed they're used to! I bought an expensive good mattress for mine. I moved dd1 to a cot bed at 22 months because I was about to have dd2.
Yes! the soft mesh sides are amazing! I heard from quite a few friends that they switched to travel cots. And one friend told me that it is more difficult for toddlers to climb out of a travel cot due to mesh sides, but so far we are not facing such issues, as our LO sleeps in a sleeping bag, so he can sit up and (unfortunately) stand up but getting out of bed is definitely not possible!
Lara

Offline LaraDaisy

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Re: 14mo nap wars and NWs + crib bumpers question
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 19:01:08 pm »
Hello everyone! I decided to post a small update on our situation in case anybody ever comes looking for solutions to similar problems that I used to have.
so, in the end for NWs we did WI/PD/WO method and now if he screams up at night, first, I wait to see if it escalates as in a lot of cases he screams for a few seconds and then falls back asleep again. If he does not stop I go to his bedroom, open the door and say something like "mommy is here, it's ok, you can go back to sleep now, mommy is with you", and then if he does not stop, I go in and pat him on the back or thigh (whatever is closest:), in a lot of cases NWs happen when he loses his comfort item, then i find it in his bed and give it back to him and it is quiet again.
As for naps this is how we do it now: nap starts between 12-15 and 12-30 (he has lunch at around 11-30), so after lunch depending how fast he ate and how early was lunch, sometimes he gets a few minutes of play time, he plays by himself with cars/books/legos (we do not allow him to watch tv or use ipad and he does not have any noisy stimulating toys), then I take him in my arms, tell him it is time to go for a nap, we have a little walk around the apartment saying sweet dreams to all the rooms, furniture, toys, books, daddy (during weekend), then we go into his bedroom (it is very very dark), i put him in his crib and there are a few soft plush toys and i take one by one from a table next to his bed and I say that each one of them is tired and it goes to sleep in his bed, then I kiss him and tell him that mummy is also tired and goes to sleep, I lay down on the sofa in his bedroom (it is along the opposite wall of the crib just a couple meters away from the crib), he plays for a while and then falls asleep by himself. It takes from 5 to 40 minutes sometimes for him to fall asleep, but I do not mind, since there is no rocking/screaming/fits involved :) he does protest from time to time looking at me, but then I just tell him (while  still laying on the sofa and not even opening my eyes) that i am tired and I need to sleep and if he does not want to sleep, he can play with his plush animals, but mummy is resting, he then proceeds to move around, play for a while and then falls asleep.
Now I just cannot believe it is how good his sleep has become recently! he does have bad nights sometimes, due to premolars teething, which has been taking almost two months now for all 4 of them, but in general I am a more rested happier person :)
I hope this information one day can help somebody :)
Lara

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 14mo nap wars and NWs + crib bumpers question
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 19:05:24 pm »
That's great :D Thanks for sharing Lara!
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