Discouraged

[AshleyMegan]

Hello
I have posted here re: short naps and my dd before.
My dd is just over 3 months (on the 16th), and has been sleeping great at night, from 7:30-8pmish until 6:30-7am.  We have been dealing with her napping from 30-45 minutes only, have tried changing A times by increasing, decreasing, changing activities to make sure not overstimulated, and tried all nap extensions.  Nothing helped. 

She wasn't seeming hungry when she woke early from naps so I didn't offer a bottle until today just to see.  And she drank it.

I started her on the 4 hour easy a while back because she was able to last 4 hours- she won't fuss for a bottle until 4 hours now, but maybe she's just used to waiting?  She drinks 7 oz every 4 hours.

Do you think it would be beneficial to revert back to a 3.5 hour routine?  Do I keep the 7 oz bottles and just add one more in there?  Any sample routines?  I'm so scared of messing night sleep up by doing this?  I'd like to try to keep the bedtime the same.

Help!

Right now, her E are 7am, 11am, 3pm, 7pm, followed by usually 2 40 minute naps, if I'm lucky. 

[AshleyMegan]

I would like to add that we are able to get her asleep initially wide awake with very little fussing and she doesn't use a pacifier.

[Bella89]

Hi AshleyMegan,
I feel like it is more of a question about feeding with formula, so if you don't mind I will move it to the other board. I will keep an eye on the topic if any nap issues come up

Also, I feel like she has a little trouble transfering from one sleep cycle to another, but does she wake up crying or playful?

[AshleyMegan]

Great, thank you
A lot of the time she doesn't wake up crying, but not necessarily playful.  She squirms and squirms.  I feel like she's trying to put herself to sleep but can't.  After so long of squirming, she starts crying.

[Bella89]

Gotcha!
It does sound like a genuine hunger to me to be honest, but maybe someone here will no better.

In the meantime please have a look at the link below:
Shush-pat - How to

It can be helpful with resettling.Have you try that?

[AshleyMegan]

Hello,
I unfortunately did try that, but when she sees me, I just make it worse.  LOL  I actually did try a different swaddle today, and she has slept for 2 2 hour naps so far.  Just when I'm about to give up, something amazing happens! LOL.  I don't know if it was because of the feeding or the swaddle.

She did stir after 30 minutes for both naps, after 1.5 hours of A time.

If I am able to stick with the 4 hour EASY, do you suggest I try increasing A time?  I make sure I put her down by 1.5 hours, but a lot of the time, she doesn't show tired cues anymore.  I'm afraid of her getting overtired though.  Or, if these naps work with this different swaddle, of her napping too much and it affecting her nighttime sleep

[Bella89]

I think your intuition works best. I think I would increase that A time by 15 min for a few days and see. 15 min is very likely to OT her, but might show some results after 3-4 days:)

About the bottle part of question. Is she draining 7oz bottles or leaves a little? If she is draining them I would add 1-2 oz. I know it says what it says on the box, but I never limited formula to my DS after we weaned and he was happier with that

[AshleyMegan]

Hello again!
So I increased little miss to 8 ounces and she has now been sleeping an average of 1.5 - 2 hours for the morning and afternoon naps.  For the evening nap, she is unable to put herself back to sleep after 45 minutes.  Does this mean she's reached her napping limit?

I know she is able to go every 4 hours most of the time, especially with her 2 hour naps, but when she only has a 1.5 hour nap, she's not due for a feeding for another 30 minutes.  Should I feed her early or try to put it off 30 minutes? 

[Bella89]

Hi there,
that's wonderful news!!! Congrats on long naps:)

Let me say that it's completely normal for that last nap to be shorter, because it's the one that's suppose to disappear close to 5-6 months.

About feedings... I was always trying to delay it a little, but yes, feed her so she would know that E ia after S in EASY (well it's not but you know what I mean;)

[AshleyMegan]

Hi
Me again
The naps were going well.  She was able to settle herself back to sleep if she woke at the 45 minute mark yesterday and again this morning.
However, this afternoon, she couldn't.  I'm not sure if I should be trying any nap extension methods (I tried in past but our floors are creaky and often wake her).  Since she is able to self soothe sometimes, is this just something that will get better?  She wakes up miserable with short naps. 
I leave her for a while because I can tell she is trying to soothe herself back to sleep (sucking on hands, etc.) but then she gets frustrated after 20 minutes and starts crying.  I tried the shush pat but nothing works.  Ugh.

[Bella89]

Hi Ashley,
so she is now 4 months, correct?

I wonder if something is distracting for her or is she uncomfortable?

We know she is able to self settle, so it has to be something else. It's also around the time of 4 mo sleep regression...

Let's see tomorrow how it will go. Try helping her with going back to sleep for now. Either shh/pat r holding her hand, rubbing her cheeks.

How does her routine look like right now?

[AshleyMegan]

I took her mobile down in case it was a distraction but no luck there. 

She wakes at 7am, nap between 8:45 and 9, and if we're lucky she wakes between 10:30 and 11, and we feed her.  IF we do get a decent nap in, it's that first morning nap.  But lately it's been rare.  We try to do another nap around 1pm, and cat nap at 5.  Bed is 730 and she's still sleeping until 7am.

As soon as I go in and shush pat to settle her back to sleep, she starts smiling away and there's no getting her back to sleep.

Do they outgrow this?  Please say they do! And when?
I'm so frustrated

[Bella89]

They most certainly do! But to be honest, with my DS, just when we got out of 4mo sleep regression we jumped into 3-2 transition when he was 5,5 mo:/

So when she wakes up after a short nap she is happy enough that she would rather play than go back to sleep? I ask because that is a sign of being UT.
Are you coming in because you hear her chatting or because she cries for you? I never in my life managed to resettle a chatty baby:/
What do you think?

I would love to see your yesterday's routine as is, so;
7 WU
7:20 7oz of formula
8:45-10:30 nap
etc...

[AshleyMegan]

This may sound odd, but the other day, my hubby wasn't paying attention to the time and kept her awake for 2.5 hours, and she slept for almost 2 hours. 

Yesterday's first nap, I put her down after 2 hours and she woke after 45 minutes.  I experimented with her 2nd nap yesterday and kept her up for 2.5 hours.  It's near impossible to pick up on any cues from her, but she wasn't cranky when I put her down, just started to fuss slightly.  She slept for 2.5 hours.

So, here we are this morning.  She woke at 7, DH fed her (a little late) at 730 while I was still hiding under the covers.  I kept her up until 9:30 (again, just started with mild fussing), and it's now almost 11am and she's still asleep.  I did see on the monitor that she woke slightly at 20, 40 minutes but she stopped squirming within 2 minutes, found her hand, and fell right back to sleep. 

Is this normal for a 4 month old to be awake for 2.5 hours at a time?

If the rest of the day goes as planned, I'm not sure how the last catnap will work...
If I follow the 2.5 hour wake time, she'll have her 2nd nap from about 1:30-3 or 3:30. 
What should I do about her last nap?  We do last bottle at 7 then bath and in bed by 7:30.

I'll post in EASY format at the end of today for you to evaluate.  Thank you for all your help!

[Bella89]

Is this normal for a 4 month old to be awake for 2.5 hours at a time?

It could be, honey. Maybe it's not common, but you just found out what works for your baby Congrats on that!
I would hold on to it as long as it works.

This scenario is very similar to the time when LOs go through 3-2 transitions. Remind me how old is she now?

You can go 2 ways:
1. Start early BT so i.e. 6-6:30 (I personally always had trouble with that and my DS never felt good about it:/)
2. Try a short nap 5:30-6, but not go over 6, so you would have to wake her up. That will keep BT at 7 or 7:30. If you let her sleep it will push BT to 8-9 :/