Please help me fix my 8wk old's sleeping habits

[Seachelle1512]

Hello!  So for some background: LO is 9wks tomorrow, we have been loosely practicing EAS since 6wks, and now her sleep is so eradic and unpredictable, and her bedtime has creeped later and later into 2am territory. She is EBF, gaining weight perfectly, and capable of long sleep stretches (6hrs at 6wks, 7hrs at 7wks) but I can't get her long stretch to happen before midnight to save my life. My sample logs will make your head spin even though I'm doing the best I can to keep her on EAS. The house is brought and noisy during day and dark/quiet at night. She has bad gas and occasional reflux issues. When I can't get her to sleep within 20min I offer the breast and she'll usually latch. The 4-6hr cluster sessions are becoming a burden because they lead to nowhere. I go back to work in 3wks and need and earlier bedtime from her by then or I'll fall apart in the first week back. I realize she has major sleep associations to feeding/rocking but not sure if I should focus on that or on readjusting her circadian rhythm, then fixing those associations. Thank you for reading!

Thurs-
E/A 7:34-45
S 1hr
A 9:00-10:00 Dr appt
S 1.5hr
E 11:30
A 11:30-12:10
E 12-12:10 sleep attempts weren't working so I tried feeding again
S 2.5hr
E 2:56-3:10
A 2:56-4:20
E 4:05-20
S 15min
E 5:06-5:15
A 5:06-6:15
S 40min
E 7:03, 7:45, 8:39, 9:34 cluster feeds, nothing else soothed her
S 15min
E 10:54-11:02
S 45min
E12:17-24, Slept 5hr

Fri
E/A 5:14-32am
S 4hr
E 9:32-41
A 9:32-10:34
E 10:15-34
S 2hr
E 12:32
A 12:32-1:45
E 1:34-45
S 1hr
E 3:05-15
A 3:05-4:15
S 1hr
E 5:15-31
A 5:15-6:30
S 45min
E 8:00
A 7:30-8:30 with 15min catnap
E 8:50, 9:42, 10:35, 10:50-11:30
S 30min
E 12:44-1:10
S 6hr

Sat
E/A 12:44-1:10
S 6hr
E 7:10-20
A 7:10-8:35 she was wide awake after the first technical NF which has never happened before and is slightly terrifying.
E 8:23-35 R
S 8:35-11:10, 2.5hr
E 11:20-40
A 11:10-40
S 11:40-now (12:30) she fell asleep nursing after sleeping 2.5hrs and at this point I'm afraid to intervene at all for fear of messing things up- even though her sleep patterns can't get much worse.

[Elisanah]

Hi, hugs to you! It is so hard when they don't sleep, especially if you know you're going back to work so soon.

Hopefully someone with more experience with using EASY at this age will also come along (I didn't implement it until later) but I just wanted to reassure you that this sounds totally normal at this age and is just a phase (my mantra since my lo arrived!) . It sounds like you're doing a great job! I don't think there is really much to 'fix' at this age but more encouraging her to learn day from night and when to sleep etc. 5-6 hour stretches are pretty good at this age for EBF babies but I remember how hard I found the late nights...and that was without the pressure of going back to work. Does she take a bottle of expressed milk? Just thinking about whether you and your oh could do shifts so you each get a block of sleep? You can then take it in turns to do the earlier part of the night/evening?

Personally I wouldn't worry about the sleep associations at the moment, it's good to be aware of them but I'd focus on helping her with establishing day/night. In regards to the gas, do you keep her upright after feeding? My HV said we just had to wait out the wind and kept telling me that at 16 weeks it would all improve! Not everything did but her wind did definitely settle at that time! Has she been checked for reflux?

The only other thing I can really offer is to start getting her up regularly at the time you want to be starting the day when you go back to work, regardless of how the night has gone.

I notice your A times are very varied so I hope someone with more experience in that can offer you some advice as well as the amount of daytime sleep she is having! I'm not sure what's too much or too little at this stage.

HTH, xx

[Seachelle1512]

Thanks for responding- I know there's a lot going on here haha and I welcome any advice. I'm grateful that I don't have issues with getting long stretches from her, I just wish it started sometime in the PM. By 6wks she was doing 6 hrs, then 3, then 2 at 11:00 and that was glorious. Now it's like her 'night' isn't until 1am.
And Sarurday morning, she was wide awake after the first NF, which has never happened, so I figured what the hell, let's start the day and see what happens. Nothing happened. Nada. No improvement even by 15min. Rome wasn't built in a day, I know,  but I don't know what to do to shift her 'night' that won't make her OT.

The ped said her Reflux isn't severe enough for Zantac. We tried a bottle of expressed milk Thursday night and I think it just worsened her gas issues for all day Friday.

Our Saturday is below... I keep track of gas drops and Gripe Water so I don't exceed dosages.
E/A 12:44-1:10
S 6hr
E 7:10-20
A 7:10-8:35 awake after 1st NF so I started our day, figured it couldn't make things worse
E 8:23-35
S 8:35-11:10, 2.5hr in crib
E/A 11:20-40 fell asleep nursing, was too afraid to intervene
S 11:40-12:40, 1hr on me
E 1:05-15
A 12:40-2:00, fought sleep hard for 15min but was yawning
S 2:00-4:00, 1.25hr (3-4:00 gassy-drops given, in & out of sleep)
E 4:12-21
A 4:00-5:00
S 5:00-6:00, 1hr in PNP (ssh/pat 15min)
A 6-6:30 (fussy, wouldn't latch- gas drops given)
S 6:30-45, 15min
E 6:45-52
A 6:45-7:40 (bath, bedtime routine, gas drops)
E 7:15-25 then fell asleep with ssh/pat
S 7:40-8:30 50min
E/A GW 8:35-9:05
S 9:05-11:15 2hr
E/A 11:15-1:00 fought sleep, nursed 3x, needed gas drops and GW
S 1:00-6:00 5hr

[michaeljacknnugg]

Hugs, it's really hard doing this when you've got to go back to work. Where will she be whilst you're at work?

I would try and get your A times (count from when she wakes, including eating time) more consistent. At nine weeks we were still cluster feeding most of the evening but our days were getting more predictable and the cluster feeds started to shorten (relatively recently, my guy is 115 weeks).

I would try and get her to stay awake more in the middle of the day. Play with her, take her out into the fresh air if possible. We are out and about early (horses to see to) and I'm sure that helps.

If she's fighting day sleep then pop her in the pram, car or sling and see if that helps. I wouldn't worry about props right now, they can be phased out once you have a better routine going.

My guy has very very long A times but if it helps, we're on about 2.5hrs right now. I think really at her age 1.5hrs is a good place to start.

[Seachelle1512]

Thank you!  Yes it is nerve wracking. She'll be in daycare 3wks from tmrw and I have this crazy fear that she'll be treated differently because she's the erradic one and all the other babies will be on schedules.
I guess I'm still trying to figure out her A time, I still just look for clues but need to find a pattern of what works.
It's been to cold here for stroller walks. Car rides sometimes put her to sleep, sometimes don't.
How does cluster feeding work into the EAS routine? I swear my girl can start clustering at 4 or 7, always with the end result of a 1am bedtime.
Her bedtime is so late I struggle to get more than 9hrs of night sleep out of her even I used to get 10-12. Last night she slept 1am-6am, fed them Slept 6:15-9:00 but didn't go right back to sleep after that feeding probably because it was too light in her room. Is 8-9hrs of night sleep enough?

[michaeljacknnugg]

It depends, is she acting tired? Tbh I always think that if he's dozing and feeding, then it counts as sleep.

I've got through this patch by putting baby in the sling and watching when he falls asleep. He's naturally fallen into a pattern that I've then followed as I've started to put him down for sleeps without me. I've found that it's a good way to work out his A times.

I think those long naps in the daytime aren't helping. Can you try to keep her going, even just a little?

I wouldn't worry too much about daycare. Babies vary so much at this age that I doubt they will bat an eyelid! It's very likely that they can help you with her routine, too, so if you talk to them now you might be able to make a plan between you.

[Seachelle1512]

Her average nap is 45min-1.5hr is that too long? There are some 2.5s in there but that isn't the norm usually. She doesnt take long at all to nurse, 20min usually, so then 1-1.5hr A time depending on what works then 45min-1.5hr nap. That could at the shortest span put us at a 2hr routine. I'm just lost still at what's going to work for my baby. I actually said to my husband that maybe daycare can help with her routines. It's a real confidence drag to think a stranger may recognize your baby's tired cues and put her to sleep better than you. :/ ok pity party is over lol. Today has already been a trainwreck. I may have mistaken a tired cry for gas so her 2nd nap process was a disaster with 2 failed PD attempts.

[Elisanah]

Try not to be so hard on yourself... You are being a great mum...it's just really hard sometimes to work out what they're  needing. Trust me, you're definitely not alone in this (I feel like I've only just really worked out my lo's cries and she's 12mo...and even now she still has me at a loss sometimes!).

I totally get you wanting sleep in the pm, that was the hardest thing for me, I'm definitely not a night owl! I do think it's a little about just finding things that help keep you sane at the mo. I also found a sling really helpful, I used it more to extend naps if they were too short but it's an interesting tip mj&n made about learning about your lo's A time with it. It was also really helpful in getting my lo to sleep in the evening. Then eventually she moved to sleeping in her moses basket.

I think one of the main things about EASY routine is to not go over the 3hour time span, so if you have an A time of 1.5hours and then she happens to still be asleep after 1.5 hours, wake her up to start the new 3hour window rather than leaving her. 45mins-1.5hours is definitely not too long a nap. Personally if she wakes up early (so giving you a 2 hour routine) I'd only feed her if she was making hunger signs, otherwise I'd wait until it was 3hours from when she last began to feed (so potentially more of a s-a-e-a-s routine).

I read the baby whisperer book when I was pregnant and thought it would be so easy to implement a routine and understand cries etc...but it's a lot tougher in practice! Try to go easy on yourself and just do what you can to encourage the routine you're hoping for, it will come, it's just early days at the moment. The daycare might help with routine, try not to see that as a negative on your part though...It might be easier for others to settle your lo as she won't be able to smell milk.

[Seachelle1512]

Thanks for the encouragement.
How did you handle cluster feedings? Mine can go on for 4+ hrs still,  are cat naps in between detrimental to her night sleep at this stage?

She has fought me on sleep all day since her first nap so I'm now at loss for how to handle the rest of the night. Just forget routines and let her do her thing until tmrw when she'll be well rested and try again?

[Seachelle1512]

Small update- things took a turn for the worse yesterday. Bad gas and fought sleep all day. 1st long sleep stretch wasn't until 3am. From 8pm on last night the house was dark, she would fall asleep after walking/rocking then not stay asleep more than 45min whether we held her or tried PD, with several failed PD attempts. Maybe she's just not ready for ssh/pat? I'm fighting an allergy attack with severe congestion and don't have the energy for bad naps and OT crying again today. And now her bedtime just got worse. I really want to enjoy these last few weeks with my LO but I honestly can't say I've enjoyed this last 2 wks at all with the sleep/nap/gas issues all making for a pretty unhappy LO.

[Elisanah]

Big hugs, it sounds really tough for you at the moment. Do you have anyone nearby who could look after her at all for a few hours to give you a chance to rest in the day?

I handled the cluster feeds with boxsets and chocolate That time feels like a blur now but I do remember finding it really hard. I remember trying to implement a night time routine around 6/7weeks and looking back I feel that we just created more stress for ourselves by trying to make J fit into what we thought she should be doing, when I just don't think she was ready for that yet. Sounds similar to your lo in how she was...ridiculously long cluster feeding sessions, upset and unable to settle in the evenings. But from all my nightime googling at the time I think it's a really normal thing for babies of this age.

I think it's doing whatever you can to encourage night time habits whilst balancing that with doing whatever helps get you through this stage (because she won't always only go to sleep at 1am, I promise!). Here's what I would probably do:

- try to get a consistent A time in the day to help prevent OT like mj&n recommended. But take each day as it comes, it might take a while to work out what works best for your lo.
- Use a wrap/sling for naps and evening times when baby won't settle...it was magical at that age for my lo. Don't worry too much about sleep associations at the moment - it's more important for baby (and you!) for her to sleep at the moment!
- Try to find ways that will help you cope with the late nights. E.g. friends or family taking your lo out for a couple of hours in the day for you to nap...you and your oh taking it in turns to do the settling in the evening. Sometimes just accepting something for what it is can be freeing...your lo will learn to sleep earlier but it might take some time for her to be ready for it. If you're going to be up until 1am, you may as well be getting to watch some movies or catch up on a book
- Do bedtime routines and keep things quiet and lights dimmed after that (within reason, you don't want to sit in a dark room for 6 hours! we watched telly but just had it on quietly) to help her learn when her night time is supposed to begin.
- Try to start the day around the same time each day.

With regards to the catnaps during the clusterfeeds, I would probably be wanting to encourage them if it's after the time you'd consider her bedtime.

I really hope I haven't just talked at you! It must be really hard for you knowing you'll be having to go to work in a couple of weeks, I really hope your lo starts to enjoy her sleep soon.

Some one else might have more advice re: EASY and cluster feeding at this age but I hope what I've said helps.

x

[Seachelle1512]

Thank you, I enjoy reading other's experiences. My LO is definitely the Cluster Feed queen. And I wouldn't mind them if the end result was a PM bedtime 

I think I may just have to accept it for what it is while trying for a consistent WU and bedtime routine time each day. My husband works more of a 2nd shift, so I'm left flying solo. My mom will be staying with me all week next week so she'll be doing daytime feedings also to get LO more acclimated to bottle feeding.

The last 2 days it seems she can only go 45 minutes max before becoming OT. I feel that's kinda short for her age but I could be wrong.

And rewatching the entire Scrubs series that I own has helped me get through maternity leave

[Elisanah]

Our lo's sound so alike! J could also only go 45 minutes for a while... I guess just go with what you're seeing from your lo, so if that's 45 minutes then that's fine! It's so tough having to do it by yourself - my husband was in the middle of exams and deadlines when our dd was small so I often ended up doing the nights, it's really hard 

Really hope you get a chance to rest when your mum comes to stay!

x

[michaeljacknnugg]

Can you feed lying down? That's a definite lifesaver. I've been going to bed when baby does for a while now, and just dozing while he feeds. Yoga ball in the corner of the room for when he needs bouncing off to sleep, white noise on constant and off we go. It's not conducive to getting anything at all done in the evenings but I am mostly rested.

Look up safe co-sleeping guidelines if you want to doze with her, also you can get hubby to check on you and bring drinks and snacks.

[Seachelle1512]

I feel like my attempts to make her 1am bedtime earlier have backfired. Last two nights her long sleep stretch didn't come til 3am  Two weeks of stress and crying for it to only get worse is starting to take its toll. I don't understand how her bedtime of 11pm at 6 weeks turned into 1am at 8 weeks then 3am at 9 weeks despite me trying to implement routines and watch for tired cues.  Feel like my days are spent worrying not enjoying... Now after two failed ssh/pat attempts for her first daytime nap (yep her first daytime nap is 2pm) I'm holding her so she doesn't become OT. I've tried waking her slightly earlier and super early and nothing has worked, just makes it worse I think. I may just have to wait for her melatonin levels to kick in and just hope for a miracle in the meantime.
I'm too scared to co sleep. Her problem isn't waking up frequently, it's just that her internal clock thinks bedtime is 3am where she'll then do 5hrs, followed by 3hrs then 2. Before I started actively trying to change things I was getting 6.5-7.5 hr stretches from her and a 12-1am bedtime,  so I just feel like I've made things worse for everyone, worrying over what her bedtime was.