Author Topic: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(  (Read 2920 times)

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Offline Odin's_mom

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Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« on: February 29, 2016, 02:11:04 am »
Now that my son cries every time I pat him (even for burps) and my hand/wrist/forearm are sore from patting for almost 3 days straight I'm at a loss...

He turned 10 weeks the day we started ( we started with bed time because I thought that would be easier).  The next 3 days after have been a nightmare.  He used to sleep 7pm-8am and nap about 5 hours a day (but nursing to sleep which we wanted to break) and now it's down to 6:30pm-5 am and MAYBE 2.5 hours of naps. 

Here's how today went:

Wake 5 am
E 5-520 let him try to fall back asleep on his own but ended up crying after about 15 mins then tried shush/pat until 630 and gave up
A 630-730
S Shh/pat until 820 (he got 30 mins of sleep in this time)

A 820-920
E 920-940
S Shh/pat (slept 955-1040)

A 1040-1120
S Shh/pat (slept 1135-1210)
E 1210-1230

A 1230-1300
S Shh/pat (slept 1310-1333)  Tried again at 1400, gave up at 1420

A 1420-1500
S Shh/pat (slept 1520-1555)

E 1630
S Shh/pat 1645 (sleep 1710.....it's not 1900 and he has not woken up.  I chose not to wake him because I felt so bad that he has gotten little to no sleep the past few days.  Normally I do his cat nap as a walk with him in the carrier.  Then he baths around 6, eats 610-630 and off to sleep.

As you can see our day is all over the place because I can't get him to nap.  I'd also like him to sleep until 7am at least.

He cries every time I lay him down for a nap and sometimes cries REALLY hard when I do shh/pat.  Sometimes I have to pick up a few times to calm him before setting him back down and trying again.  He takes anywhere from 10-40 minutes to close his eyes then I often have to continue shh/pat until he wakes up.  I've experimented today with tapering it off earlier and he usually fusses then I start up again.  I've also had no luck lengthening his naps with shh/pat.  Sometimes the 30 or 40 minute naps have been lengthened with shh/pat to get to the 30/40 min mark:(

Our wind down routine is: diaper change, lights out, noise machine on, hold him and sing Twinkle Little Star, lay him down to swaddle him (he usually starts crying at this point), tell him it's "night night time" with a kiss, put his stuffy in front of him, cover his bottom half and start shh/pat.



Offline lauradj

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 04:10:00 am »
Hi there!  I'm sorry you're finding Shh-Pat so difficult.  I also found my arm, forearm and wrist became really tired and sore so I just did it with baby on my shoulder.  It's really not a big deal and my boys found it far more soothing.  Give that a go and see if it helps. :)
However, I think with a few little changes, you might be able to avoid Shh-Pat altogether.  At the moment, it sounds like your little guy isn't ready to go to sleep when you lay him down.  Most babies around 10 weeks are staying up for 1hr and 15-20mins, whereas your LO is awake for 1 hr.  It may not seem like a big change but that extra 15 mins can really wear them out.  Let's try a gentle A push of 15 minutes and see how that helps.  Also, you don't need to start Shh-Pat as soon as you lay him down.  Lay him in his crib and leave the room.  Give him a chance to settle himself.  Tracy said it takes most babies 20 mins to settle themselves to sleep and my DS1 was definitely like that.  He would grouse and fuss and wriggle around for 18-19 minutes and then just konk out at the 20min mark.  If he does his "I need you cry" obviously go comfort him right away but if it's more of a mantra cry, hold back and let him try to work through it.


Offline Odin's_mom

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2016, 17:49:45 pm »
I can't thank you enough!!  It is so nice to have someone respond/get advice when you are feeling desperate!

We used your advice this morning and so far so good I think.  He woke at 700 then went for a nap at 815, fussed on/off until 840 then slept until 920.  I didn't have to shh/pat like you said!  I stayed in the room because I wanted to learn his mantra cry.  He actually barely did this.  I cut the one arm off of his Swaddle Up yesterday and he seems to like to suck on his hand to soothe himself.  It was not a very long nap like he used to do but we can work on the length next.

Oh I had one more question...should we still stick with 1 hr 15 min A times if he has had only a 40 min nap?  We did just in case.  I figured the worst that could happen is a 30 min nap next but I could be wrong...haha

Thank you again!!

Offline lauradj

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2016, 23:49:48 pm »
That's great news!!  It's so nice to hear when our parents have progress  :)  I did stick with the A time but I know some moms prefer to shorten it a bit.  I would say that one depends on your child.  Fingers crossed everything keeps going smoothly!


Offline Odin's_mom

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2016, 00:11:50 am »
We stuck with the A time and one of his naps was 1.5 hours so seems to work with him :D.

I am just wondering if Shh/pat can become a prop?  He just went down for a nap and seemed to be actual crying (not mantra, although not hard) so I went to check on him.  As soon as I was there he was fine.  I changed his diaper because he had peed, reswaddled him then said "night night" and when I left he started crying again.  So I did shh/pat until he fell asleep which only took a few minutes.  Can they start to rely on this?

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2016, 04:30:37 am »
Tonight He woke at 9 pm when usually he will sleep until somewhere between 10 and 11.  I left him to resettle and he ended up really crying so I went and checked on him.  Everything seemed fine and he calmed as soon as I started shh-pat so I stopped after a few mins and left the room.  He started crying hard again so I came back and tried again.  He calms even if I pat VERY lightly...maybe he just needs to know I am there?  What do I do in this situation?  This seems like I am becoming a prop but at the same time he is only 10 weeks old so maybe this is normal?

Offline lauradj

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2016, 21:57:55 pm »
Totally normal.  Your LO is still so young, there may be times when all he needs is to know you're there if he needs you.  Last night he needed you, you appeared and reassured him you will be there.  These little blips will definitely happen from time to time and that's ok.  I look at it as an opportunity to reinforce what I always tell my toddler, "If you need me, if you cry out for me, I will always come."  What is more reassuring than that?  You're doing a great job  :)


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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 17:49:45 pm »
Thanks again Laura for all your help!  Over the last couple of days I have learned to just relax about the whole nap thing... it will come.  haha Thanks to your advice we've already made huge improvements :D

Offline lauradj

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 21:25:59 pm »
Oh believe me, I was a total basket case with my first son.  I kept an anal retentive record of every darn thing he did.  It was nice when I was finally able to let go a bit and just enjoy him.  It feels better  :)


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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2016, 19:10:22 pm »
Hi Laura,

I'm just wondering if it's normal to still be needing to shush-pat about 50% of the time to get LO off to sleep after more than 3 weeks.  I always leave him to self-settle first and only go in once he's really crying.  He can take anywhere from 20-40 mins to settle on his own.  Also, when I first start the wind down I always sing him a lullabye and he often starts crying out at this point (I think because he knows nap time is coming).  It makes me think he hates nap time but I don't know.  Any insight?

Offline lauradj

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2016, 20:16:07 pm »
Hi there!  Perhaps he's ready for an A time push?  What does your EASY look like at the moment?


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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2016, 16:06:42 pm »
It's been a bit of a gong show because he has never gotten past the 30-45 min naps.  Once a week or so he will have a 90 min nap.  Here is today:

E 700
A 715-820
S 820-850

A 850-930
E 930-945
A 945-1010
S 1010-1040

A 1040-1140
E 1140-1155
A 1155-1200 (diaper change, walk around)
S 1200-1240

A 1240-1400
S 1400-1430

E 1430
A 1445-1550
S 1550-1620

E 1630
A 1645-1815

E 1815
S 1830

Every day is a bit different.  Usually I will keep him awake 1 hr 20 mins. I'd keep him awake a bit longer but he always seems to be OT.  His eating has also been all over the place as well because of the short naps.  I try to keep him at least 2 hours apart.  Before I stopped nursing him to sleep he would eat every 3 hours but he also slept 1.5-2 hrs. 

Offline lauradj

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2016, 21:09:24 pm »
So he's 12 weeks old now?  I'd say it's time for another A time push.  It's hard in the beginning because the A times change so quickly but it can really make a difference.  I would push for 1.5hr of A time.  He will act a little tired the first day or two but stick with it and he'll likely start napping for longer stretches again.  Did the A time push work last time?  You mentioned all naps were 30-45mins?


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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2016, 00:29:16 am »
He's almost 14 weeks now.  For the past 2 days we have been doing an A time of 1 hr 30 mins.  We got a couple long naps out of him and the rest were all 30-45 mins long.  He still cries like crazy when I put him down.  He calms down as soon as I start shushing and patting so I think he's relying on me to do this now.  If I stop before he's asleep he loses it again.  We do a routine beforehand as well and I make sure there's nothing too stimulating for at least 20 mins before his naps. 

PU/PD starts right at 4 months?  Haha I only ask because I'm worried I took shush-pat in the wrong direction and maybe overused it into a prop.  Plus we would like to put him in his crib soon but shush-pat will be too hard in there.

Also, should I start a new post when I have new questions?  I apologize if that's the normal process.  I just keep coming back here.

Offline lauradj

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2016, 01:02:28 am »
Starting a new thread when you have new questions is always helpful. It allows fresh eyes to look at the current situation.  Often if a moderator responds right away, we find other members of the community hesitate to offer advice even though what they have to offer may be spot on.
Have you done the baby temperament quiz?  I wonder if he's a little spirited?  That would be good to know in advance because those munchkins DO NOT like PU/PD.  It looks like I never attached the Shh-Pat link for you.  I'm going to do that now and see what other gems I can drum up to help out.

Here you go:
Shush-pat - How to
Gentle Removal Plan
Getting back on track using Walk In/Walk Out (WI/WO)
Pick Up/Put Down (PU/PD) - Everything you ever needed to know!


Offline Odin's_mom

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2016, 04:12:33 am »
I did the quiz and he definitely is spirited :(.  Also PU/PD does NOT sound fun at all!  I never had to use it with my first because he responded to shush-pat in a few days and was a pretty good sleeper after that.  I tried the Gentle Removal first when I first wanted to stop nursing to sleep. 

If PU/PD doesn't work with a spirited baby do you continue with shush-pat?

Offline lauradj

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Re: Day 3 of SHH/PAT with 10 week old...getting nowhere :(
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2016, 05:17:45 am »
Yup, that's the suggestion.  I still use Shhh-Pat with my DS2 because he has/had reflux.  I just rub his back and Shhhh until he quiets down.  Then I just rub his back until he's back to sleep, or almost.