Author Topic: night wakings again  (Read 3473 times)

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Offline zissi

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night wakings again
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:09:43 am »
hi there,

we had previously NW's of 1.5 hrs + and I was told here that my DD possibly needed a longer day and less daytime sleep. My DD is now 9 months old. her overall sleep need is between 12 and 13 hrs. I cap both of her naps now but over the last nights the NW have returned regardless. Her A time is about 4 hrs, I cap the morning nap after 1 hr sleep and the second nap after 45 mins. I think her day needs to be at least 13 hrs so she doesn't wake up chatting. she still gets a DF around 10pm and wakes for 1 NF (breastfed) which is totally fine for me as long as she goes down afterward. over the last nights I have been APOPing as I was scared that moving her back to her cot would wake her but she stayed up after the feed regardless. she is LSN. Im planning to do the morning nap 45 mins today and the afternoon nap 1 hr, so she isn't that OT by BT. any other ideas? often, when I do get her her down after the NW its already 6am and she would then sleep happily till 8/9am but I usually wake her at 7 so that she can have a normal BT. those NW's are really exhausting, please let me know what you think! or could I be all wrong and she needs more sleep and is actually OT? her long A time and the fact that she is happy during her NW's would suggest otherwise....
Franziska

Offline lily_layne

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 02:55:27 am »
Can you post your day with times? It's easier for me to see if anything needs tweaking.

Those long NWs are so exhausting and it can be tough to figure out if they are UT or OT. They can also be developmental. Have a look at the wonder weeks website to see if she's in a developmental leap - they often cause long NWs but pass once the leap is over.

DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline zissi

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 10:39:07 am »
thanks for your reply. I have the WW app and she isn't actually in a wonder week at the moment. in fact when she was the last time she slept through the night a few times. having said that she is trying hard to crawl, so maybe thats working on her.
yesterday was like this:
I woke her at 7am
first nap 11am, woke her at 11.45
second nap 3.45, woke her at 4.50
BT 7.50, asleep by 8.05pm
it actually worked out, no long NW's, she slept till 6.10am this morning. so I really think she needs a long day and short enough naps to preserve a good night. the only thing I noticed is that she only gets now 12 hrs overall sleep, can this be enough? also its always so hard to wake her from naps, poor chicken, she wants to sleep much longer...
Franziska

Offline lily_layne

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 01:54:05 am »
If she is LSN, 12 hours may be enough.

Have you ever just totally followed her lead for a day or 2 to see what happens? Sometimes LOs can surprise us and do some monster naps and still have good nights. How the nights go will tell you whether or not to keep capping naps or if she's ok with a bit more day sleep.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline zissi

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2016, 17:26:13 pm »
yes I have and then the NW's are even longer. the problem is to fit everything into the day with her long A times. I give you an example.
if she woke at 7 she would go down for the first nap around 11, if I don't cap the nap she would sleep 1.5 to 2 hrs.
second nap 16.45/17.15pm for an hour, so till 18.15 what time would I have BT then? I don't fancy BT at 9pm. so I really think I have to go for the long A time and a CN of 20/30 mins in the afternoon. or only 1 nap. I have tried it all and we still have NW's. I think she is in the 9 months sleep regression and I really hope once she comes out of it the NW's will stop.
has anyone noticed bad sleep around 9 months? so exhausted from the NW's even though I take turns with DH but it takes me such a long time to fall asleep once she is finally down again...
Franziska

Offline lily_layne

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2016, 01:51:40 am »
There's a few others on here that have hit some bumps at nine months.

What about capping that am nap at 30 min and bringing the pm nap forward a bit so she has more A time to BT? Maybe something like this:
WU: 7
S: 10:30-11 (if you can get her down that early - Would  a walk or car ride work?)
S: 2-3:30
BT: 7:30/8
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline zissi

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2016, 11:21:04 am »
ok, so our long NW's are back after a break of 2 weeks.
in the last couple of weeks my DD had loads of small NW's, like she was OT, she was sick as well and needed more sleep. hence I let her sleep longer for her naps too.
since she is better she sleeps overall better but wakes up in the middle of the night for one long chatty NW. so, Im trying to cap naps again and see if that helps. she always naps well, if I let her 2 hrs or so.as I previously mentioned If I let her the NW's are going on for hours instead of only 1 hr. Im a bit at loss, she needs a long A time and its difficult to fit everything in the day. Im inclined to go cold turkey and move to 1 nap. she is LSN. could I try this and if things don't work out go back to 2 naps? I mean whats the worse that can happen? OT I suspect...

our day yesterday:
woker her up at 7am
1st nap 10.30, woke her at 11.20
second nap 3.40, woke her at 5pm
BT 7.45,fell asleep at 7.55pm
her last A time to BT is the shortest, if I keep it too long she becomes OT and can't settle.

any advice?

Franziska

Offline trimbler

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2016, 21:47:51 pm »
Hi there, you mentioned the idea of a long A (you mean first A? Then presumably long nap?) and a short pm CN, then you said you'd tried everything and still get long NWs ((hugs)) - so you've already tried pushing that first A, letting her have a long nap and a short CN later in the afternoon to help her get to BT? What happened then?



Offline lily_layne

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2016, 01:44:46 am »
I think Trimbler's suggestion of a long first nap and short pm CN is a good one if you haven't tried that.

Does she need you for the NWs or does she just chat? If she's just chatting and doesn't need you, I wouldn't worry too much about it. NWs like that are often developmental.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline zissi

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2016, 16:10:54 pm »
thanks for your replies. initially she just chats but it doesn't last long and then she starts crying on and off. she is also in my room, so I can't sleep when she is awake. so it is annoying. and I think she does need me to settle her.
yes we had the long first nap for a while but lately I cannot get her down for the second nap anymore so I switched it around for the last couple of days. last night was good. she woke a couple of times but I was able to shush pat her back to sleep. will keep going with that ands what happens. so would you think its too soon to go only for 1 nap?
Franziska

Offline trimbler

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2016, 20:35:20 pm »
Ah ok, in that case waking her from the first nap would be the way to get her to take a second nap. Classically, you'd gradually shorten the first nap further and hope that the second nap would get longer and earlier, until she was only doing a morning CN and a nice long pm nap, and finally drop the morning nap. However I think some LOs do end up going straight from 2x 1h naps to one long nap, I just don't have experience of that myself so tbh not sure how that might look or what to advise if that's what you'd want to do. Perhaps Lily will have a better feel for that, or we could ask around if you like?

Oh the other thing might be that perhaps some days she'll do a nice long nap and then not get down for a pm CN but you could do EBT instead; on other days she may surprise you and take a short CN. Many mums (and quite possibly some dads too ;) ) have ended up APOPing a pm CN just to get through this transition.



Offline lily_layne

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2016, 02:08:02 am »
Not sure about dropping straight to one nap but there are a few moms on here with experience doing that (they had LSN LOs). I can ask them to pop on here if you'd like.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline H7

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2016, 11:08:58 am »
Sorry for jumping on the thread with no advice but a question ...

What does APOPing mean? I've seen this on a few threads now.

Ta.

Offline trimbler

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2016, 14:41:49 pm »
No problem - APOP = accidental parenting on purpose ;D ie where you're doing something intentionally which you know might create a habit but you're doing it for a specific reason, eg to overcome OT; to help a LO through illness or pain; to get a little CN in somewhere which you know LO needs now but will soon drop, so it doesn't matter that you're creating a prop because it'll be gone soon anyway ;)



Offline zissi

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Re: night wakings again
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2016, 20:11:42 pm »
yes lily_layne if you could ask the moms with LSN babies about their experience of going straight to one nap that would be great.
we had 2 good nights with a weird routine:
wake up 6.45
1st nap 10.30-11.15 (woke her)
2nd nap 3.15 - 4.50 (woke her)
BT 7.50, asleep by 8pm. no major NW's.

last night however on the very same routine was bad. she literally woke every hour and needed a quick shush pat to go back to sleep. then she woke at 5.40am. I kept the same naps today in length, she was quite tired and BT was early, 6.50 in cot, it took 50 mins of hard crying and eventually I fed her again and she settled. I have a couple of questions here: after a bad night, do I compensate for the bad night and allow longer naps? as a result BT would be later, like the normal time 8pm? this would make her day more than 14 hours? Im at loss with her. she is either OT or UT. also do we have many NW's because I leave her in my bed after the night feed? I started doing this because I was so terrified that she has a long NW when I transfer her to her cot. but has this resulted in her waking up more often? If so Im happy to stop this and sleep train again. I just can't handle those hours of NW's. DH has to work and me too in 6 weeks time. some of the short NW's she settles herself. she is also an independent sleeper for naps and BT usually. oh and last night she sat up a few time, she just mastered doing this. so maybe still partially developmental at least??
I really would like to have this sleep issue resolved!
Franziska