Author Topic: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??  (Read 1259 times)

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Offline adkillip

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16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« on: March 01, 2016, 15:58:46 pm »
Lately we have had more and more nights with a NW where he is screaming and throwing a tantrum pointing at his bedroom door (like he wants to go out and play?). Not sure if this is a phase or if there is something I could try differently?
-I have been sitting next to crib with my hand on the mattress talking quietly occasianally to calm him down...after anywhere from 10-30 minutes he lies down... tosses and turns for another 10-30 minutes before finally falling asleep laying on or holding my hand.
-I instigated the hand on mattress for bedtime and NW a couple weeks ago, prior to that he had about 3 weeks where he laid down on his own and went straight to sleep. He started this on his own and was the first time he slept thru the night.
-He has all teeth except 2yr molars. he has been walking for a long time....so doesn't seem to be teeth or developmental

Just unsure what else I can do when he is like this???

Offline tamlev

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Re: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 20:18:30 pm »
Hi there,

Sorry to hear of your trouble. I think very highly of moms sleep...
can you try to think back to when this started and figure out if anything different happened?
Did you take him to a new play group/play ground/day care/ new family member arrive or visit/ drop a nap/ travel/ sickness/ new job etc.
He might have been scared of something a while ago (in a new place or person) and that is what woke him the first times, and now he may be used to this.
Can you try talking to him during your bed time routine and letting him know that we are all home together, and his bed is a safe place. you can even ask him during the day if anything bothers him (even if he cant talk yet, your comforting voice matters). you can say that if he needs a hug he will always get one.

What time does he go to sleep? how does your bedtime routine look like?
maybe we can work of this for some more ideas.

Offline adkillip

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Re: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 20:38:23 pm »
Thank you for your reply. Nothing new has happened, but I have been making sure to give him extra hugs and attention in case it was due to some SA.
Our day is usually:
WU:5:30-6
leave house and commute to work/daycare
7:30- breakfast
11:30-lunch
12-2 or 2:30 if tired -NAP
2:30/3- snack
4:45 pick up, snack on commute home
6:00- dinner
playtime with mommy and daddy
6:45 bath or wind down activity
7:00 nurse
7:30 teeth, book, lay in crib
8/8:15 asleep
NW occurs usually somewhere between 1:30 and 3, occasional one has happened as early as 11

I also have been wondering if he is hungry? since he is pointing toward door, he doesn't always eat well at dinner. I used to have horrible night hunger pains as a child. we stopped the night nurse 2 months ago though

Offline tamlev

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Re: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 09:51:17 am »
Hi,
you do indeed have a good routine for the day.
From reading the schedule, it seems to me that there may be 2 possible issues:

1. Your LO is not getting enough sleep
2. Your LO may be hungry (as you mentioned)

children until the age of 5 should be going to sleep between 7 PM to 7:30 PM. you start the bed time routine at 6:45 which is great! but this lasts till late. maybe try to make the bath a bit earlier at 6:30 so that you can get your LO in bed by 7:30 (after book and teeth etc.).
In addition, you mentioned that he takes a nap "if tired". at 16 months all children should be taking a 1.5-2 h nap every day.

The cycle is: good sleep at night meens good sleep during the day meens good sleep at night etc......

Regarding food: what does he eat at day care? does he get enough food from the whole food pyramide? I would try to cut out the snack on the commute home so that he has a good appetite for dinner (especialy since he gets a snack at day care- 3 o'clock). this may be hard since he is used to getting a snack in the car, and this is obviously easier for you while driving. I would try giving him a toy/ book/ sing songs/ put on music/ stickers (if he is up to that) so you can have a good time while driving and avoid the snack.
you mentioned breakfast after commuting to day care. I would try giving him breakfast after he wakes up at home. a small bowl of cereal/ oatmeal/ banana/ applesauce etc. he may be very hungry when he wakes up ans this may through the whole day off.

I hope this helps :)

Offline adkillip

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Re: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 20:20:56 pm »
i can try to move bed up a little, he has always been lower sleep needs and I really dont want him waking any earlier. 5:30 is fine on weekdays and we've adapted to it on weekends since he's used to it and we have not been successful in extending it.
My comment on nap if tired meat he slept til 2:30 instead of 2:00 if he seemed extra tired.

At Daycare they say he eats larger portions than any of the other kids, but since he is the tiniest we are all ok with it. He is picky someday on his fruits/ veggies but does eat some. He eats protein excellent and has a good portion of whole grains. He drinks 2 glasses of whole milk with them.

In the morning as I'm getting ready i offer him some of my breakfast (i.e. banana, cereal, waffle) Somedays he nibbles and other days he has a decent size.

I agree the snack home could cause him to eat a lighter dinner and therefore cause him to be hungrier at night. I have tried minimizing the snacking or making it less filling snack, but he really pitches quite a fit. He doesn't talk much but he signs some and he'll cry and sign for food, which I have struggle with.

Is there a food group that I should increase or make sure is higher at night that might help?

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Re: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 22:28:25 pm »
Hi adkillip, looks like you are getting some helpful support from tamlev (thanks tamlev :) ), I'd like to jump in with a few thoughts too.

He has all teeth except 2yr molars
the 2yr molars can be on the move and cause pain and discomfort for a long time on and off before they make their (often very painful) appearance, so I wouldn't totally rule this out.

With the routine and possible hunger.  It's a long time to wait from 5.30 until 7.30 for breakfast, I know you are offering some of your breakfast and I'm sure you don't limit it but you might find he eats better if you serve him a set meal at a set time in the morning before you leave the house. There is absolutely no harm a LO having 2 breakfasts (1 at home and another at day care).  My own always had a big milk drink before his breakfast.  LOs tend to take on calories more in the earlier part of the day so morning and afternoon rather than evening. This will be one of the reasons child care see him taking larger portions and why you see him take less at dinner, it's quite common.  At this age he doesn't necessarily need a later dinner to get him through the night (I don't think I've ever seen a LO wake from hunger over 12 months old) but he might do better with more calories earlier in the day.  I'd usually expect to see a snack between the breakfast and lunch so actually double breakfast might be the answer :)
Lunch at 11.30 and snack at 2.30/3 are fine, he is likely happy to have those I imagine.
My suggestion though would be to consider the 4.45 'snack' as his evening meal.  As I say, many LOs eat more in the earlier hours.  Many like their dinner to be pretty early too, mine used to have dinner at 4pm which is not particularly unusual and he ate so well then but serve dinner at 5pm and he would barely eat a few bites, too tired and past it to be bothered with eating.  You also say your DS is pitching a fit if you try to limit the snack, honestly I am not surprised, mine would have done the same.  My suggestion would be to ask day care if they would be willing to serve a 4-4.15 meal which should be finished by the time you collect for the trip home at 4.45.  If they are willing to do this great, it could be the answer to his hunger.  You might need to provide a packed dinner to go in their fridge if they don't usually provide a meal at that time.
Then he can play with a toy in the car (belly nice and full) and still join you and your DH for the family meal at 6pm, this will be like a light snack or supper for LO, the social aspect of coming together for a meal will still be there, he can have as much or as little as he likes but you won't have to worry about him not eating because he will be well fed at 4pm.
Have a think.  It might take a while to get your head around that idea.

You asked about food groups to help him be full, proteins and fats will help but they don't have to be taken late in the evening because as I said LO take in more calories earlier in the day.  You might find for instance giving him an egg in the morning could be just the ticket. A one egg omelet is great for breakfast and would also avoid his double breakfast ending up as double cereal.  You could make an omelet the night before if you don't have time in the morning and just serve cold cut into fingers.  I use one of those cute little one-egg pans, and the omelet is literally made in 2-3 minutes from walking in the kitchen to being on the plate.
Hard boiled eggs cut into quarters if he likes those. Or French toast is a great breakfast and another way to serve egg.

WRT to routine. I understand that he is low sleep needs but night sleep dropping below 10hrs is not ideal.
Is nap a set time at day care?  Just wondering if it's flexible, a later nap might actually help him get a bit more night sleep by discouraging the EW, I know not all day cares will move naps though.

hope something here helps :)


Offline adkillip

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Re: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2016, 14:27:56 pm »
Creations...
Thank you for your reply and your suggestions. I can easily see two breakfasts working easily..for example this morning after he woke he went straight to his high chair and reached for it so I fed him (he ate almost a whole waffle, couple bites of banana, 1/2 yogurt, 1/2 milk. Then had some dry cereal. When i dropped him off at daycare he went to his chair and was ready to eat breakfast with them. LOL!!!
I think it might be difficult for daycare to offer dinner at 4, but what about having a dinner in car at pickup 4:45? Then sitting with mom and dad and eating if he wants at 6pm.
I will try to incorporate egg into breakfast at home and see if that also helps. He is a little picky on eggs, but loves french toast that Daddy makes on the weekends. So if eggs continue to be picky I might dry leftover french toast on weekdays.
I agree that sleep below 10hrs is not ideal. We have always fought this it tends to fluctuate between 9 1/2 to 10 1/2. With an occasional 11 hrs if he is not feeling well. I haven't pushed too hard the last month or two because he just started sleeping through the night (75% of the time). When he wakes before 5:30 i keep him in his crib with lights off so he knows its not time to get up yet. I have been working on him into crib a little earlier (15 min). Some nights he does settle earlier...but this is still a work in progress :)

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Re: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2016, 18:49:26 pm »
I think it might be difficult for daycare to offer dinner at 4, but what about having a dinner in car at pickup 4:45? Then sitting with mom and dad and eating if he wants at 6pm.
Sounds like a good idea.  I'm not sure I'd want to sit in the car but if it works for you then great :)
Eggs are not vital for breakfast, it's just one of those proteins that is so easy to prepare.  Pre-made French toast sounds like a plan though. Mine was also a bit so-so on eggs, he'd only have french toast or omelet, no poached, scrambled, soft boiled or fried, wasn't keen on quiche either, odd how he just tucked into omelet though, funny things kids!

Well, not sure what your LO likes but I used to make batches of bean burger type things like little patties fried then frozen in batches so they were little person sized. Also bean things or meat loaf type things baked in a mini muffin tray, again frozen after cooking, that way I could lift a couple out to defrost in the morning and they were ready to eat by lunch time. I imagine you could keep them fresh in a chill bag.  Or just put a portion of the night befores dinner in a tub for the next day.


Offline adkillip

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Re: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2016, 14:29:50 pm »
Update: The last couple of nights have been decent we had one night where he was awake for 2 hrs, but the other nights has slept through with a couple of EW. Two breakfasts are essential for him. He is definitely showing independence with food choices. LOL! 

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Re: 16 mo old..nw inconsolable..advice??
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2016, 15:02:37 pm »
Welll it's a shame he was awake for 2hours but the rest sounds great :)