2-1 nap transition at 9 months?

[zissi]

Hi girls,

I have been posting on the NW board as we have long chatty NW's at the moment but I wanted to get your eyes on her naps too, to see if she could be heading towards the 2-1 nap transition already.
my DD is LSN, has on average 12-13 hrs of sleeper 24 hrs. she has an A time of 4 hrs, roughly. over the last week she started waking up again at night and staying awake for 1.5hrs+. so I moved her A time from 3.45 to 4hrs. however NW#s continue.
I currently cap her naps to 45 mins or 1.10 or so to fit everything in 1 day. I noticed that she has less NW's when she has at least a 13 hrs day.
this was yesterday:
I woke her at 7am
1st nap 10.45, woke her at 11.30
2nd nap 3.38, woke her at 4.50
BT 8pm, settled within 10 mins.
thats what I had been doing over the last few days, she went down well for BT and had some nights NW#s and other nights not.
last night then again she was up for 2 hrs. so I was thinking that the afternoon nap is too late in the day and too long.
so today Im trying to do the following and sticking with it for a few days.
I let her have a long morning nap (1.5hrs)
and a cat nap in the afternoon, 30 mins. BT 3.5hrs after that? what do you think?
I must add that I have been APOPing over the last few weeks, basically I feed her back to sleep when she wakes in the night (usually only once) and I leave her in my bed. of course this may contribute to the issue. she is an independent sleeper otherwise for naps and BT, only requires minimal intervention through shush pat.

any insight?

[Bella89]

Hi there,
I hope I can help a little.
At 9 months LOs still need to sleep a lot, although there are kids that are always ahead of the typical schedule;] Please, look at the link below, it is a guideline of how much they need:
Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep
You are right to say, that she is probably better rested with 13h of sleep. As you can see, she might need a little more.

I am not an expert on chatty wakings at night, but I guess that is what made you wake her up from naps. If she can handle 4h of A time no problem that's great! That means she is slowly getting into 2-1 transition, but it also doesn't mean she is there yet. I feel like 45 min nap is not getting her enough rest after A time that long.

Also, it is really difficult/impossible to judge what are her needs at the moment if she is woken up from NS and both naps:/ I'm sorry to be so straight forward about it. But that was what hit me first when I read your post.

What do you think could happen if you just let her sleep 2x1.5h-2h?
I understand it's much more difficult to fit everything in a day then, but it might also get her in a perfect, rested cycle

What do you think?

[zissi]

thanks for your reply. I agree 12 hrs is little overall sleep. I just don't see how I can fit good naps and a normal BT into the day considering her long A times. I give an example:
if she woke at 7am she would go down for a nap around 11am for 2 hrs.
second nap then 5.15ish for an hour (if I didn't wake her)
BT 3 hrs after this? we are talking after 9pm. to me this seems crazy. her A times are what they are. if I tr to make them shorter she doesn't go down or wakes after 40 mins, UT.
I think we are in the 9 months sleep regression and I hope to come out of it soon. I wonder though if I should just do only 1 nap and let her sleep for it as long as she wants? not sure if that would work...
so tired from the hours of waking in the MOTN.

[JennVanessa1083]

Following as I too am having issues with naps and A times with my 9 month old. Hugs for you mama!

[Bella89]

Hi there, sorry for long waiting but DS is no going through a tantrum phase and DH is sick, so we have a little bit of situation going on ;]

I think you misunderstod me a little, because my post was not clear enough. Sorry for that.
What I was trying to say, is that waking up LO in the morning and from both naps does not give her any freedom of sleep and knowlenge of knowing what she needs to you. When you wake her up every day at 7 straight even if you don't have to, it will be difficult to eliminate naps, because ultimately you need good night rest and no naps:)

You seem to know perfectly what she needs and what her schedule would be like if you let her sleep whatever. This is not what you want either, because if her 2nd nap is so late in a day it's impossible to put her down at a reasonable hour. You are right by saying that 9 BT is not good for anybody:)

From what you have written down, it sounds like a typical 2-1 transition. Now you have to help her transition. What I was trying to say before is "d it gradually and do not just stop putting her down for a second nap" I think I was not clear about that.

Your DS seems similar to my DS. He always preferred nap#1.

I think you could try something like this:
7 WU but try letting her sleep till whatever if you can. It's helpful during the transition, because they have a "longer" day in front of them now
11-13 nap#1
5.15-5:45 nap 2 here you probably have to wake her up to bring that BT closer to 7. That was the most difficult for us, but lasted a week.

After some time of a day looking like this you will see that midday nap getting longer (up to 3.5 hours when DD is 1yo if you're lucky and she will make it till 6 without a second nap. That early BT will slowly shift back to 7. Does that make sense?

Let me know what you think:)

JennVanessa1083 I feel ya, 2-1 was much harder for us than 3-2. It's a difficult time when these transitions happen :/

[JennVanessa1083]

This is great advice!

Should I stare a new post for myself. I had an old one to address EMW and another mod helped (Bec) with which was great for the last couple of weeks. But then my naps started suffering and I changed my routine up ( shortening A times since I wa getting OT evening NW) but it brought back the NW where he is just so restless at night again.  Tossing and turning, wide awake. I can't seem to hit the right routine where nap lengths are good and no extra NW. 

I don't want to hijack the post which is why I ask 

[Bella89]

This is great advice!

Should I stare a new post for myself. I had an old one to address EMW and another mod helped (Bec) with which was great for the last couple of weeks. But then my naps started suffering and I changed my routine up ( shortening A times since I wa getting OT evening NW) but it brought back the NW where he is just so restless at night again.  Tossing and turning, wide awake. I can't seem to hit the right routine where nap lengths are good and no extra NW. 

I don't want to hijack the post which is why I ask 

No problem
Please, start a new post and write down your routine as is right now.

It's always better because every LO is different and we can help their individual needs:) Just PM me if I miss it or something.

[JennVanessa1083]

ok thank you! I just posted it under 2-1 transition Nap Issues 9 month old.

[zissi]

don't worry about hijacking the post. I have been following yours too since we seem to have similar issues. I really think its the 9 months sleep regression because no matter what I do her nighttime sleep is bad.
we don't have issues with naps. my DD has a long A time of between 3hrs 45 mins to over 4 hrs and I usually have to wake her from the naps. she is very tired at BT and we have those wakings early in the night too. at least for the last 3 nights we didn't have any long NW's. I think the reason is that I fed her straight away instead of trying to settle. so that way she didn't wake up properly and I left her in my bed then. I know its APOP but at the moment I don't mind. we can get back on track after the regression. plus I like the co-sleeping  and she only feeds once per night plus the DF. so Im ok with that.
@bella, yes that sample routine looks great, however my DD never does 12 hr nights, in this scenario she has 14 hrs total sleep, she never does this, so I don't think it would work. BT could be 8pm instead of 7. I'm doing something similar at the moment, just that she wakes at 6 (we haven't had NW's for the last 3 days, hence the early wake up) 2 hr nap and 45 mins for second nap. I had her in bed the last 2 days at 7.05 but she only settled at 7.30. she has OT wakings in the first hours after BT.
I will be so glad once this transition is over...

[JennVanessa1083]

Haha looks like we are in this together! It honestly makes me feels better knowing I'm not the only one with these issues. I know the feeling of trying everything and more and STILL struggle! We have struggled with early evening wakings since forever! They come back off and on.

If it's not one thing it's another with these babes 

[Bella89]

Zissi you seem to know what you are doing:) I really think you're on the right track:)

I would also pay attention if LO learned something new. Stand up, sit up, crawl. It always has an effect on sleep:/

[JennVanessa1083]

That's definitely progress Zissi!! It gives me hope. I can definitely attest to developmental stuff getting in the way of sleep haha