Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old

[Sharwellstudio]

A few questions before we get started training our nearly 5 month old. He hit the 4 month sleep regression about a week before he hit the 4 month mark and he is just not getting back on track. After re-reading Tracy's "solves all your problems" book I see I need to get him on the 4 hour EASY... I've been sticking to the 3 hour.

Here's our story: DS is breastfed and decidedly "touchy". When sleep got bad around the 7 week mark the advice I got was "do whatever works". What worked was putting him in a baby carrier to wear him for naps (as I am looking after my 2.5 year old as well) and for night I had him start in the bed with me and finish the night in a rock in play after the first feeding. He is medicated for reflux and the angle of the rock n play has helped him as well. I want to transition him to his crib (with a wedge) for nights and naps. My toddler is going to Grandma's house while I start the training at the end of this week.

He is swaddled at night and for any nap he isn't in the carrier. I don't nurse him to sleep as I have been trying to do EASY since birth.

He has never slept in his crib

He uses a pacifier for naps and start of the night because there was less fighting and crying  that way. He has been consistent with it for about a month now.

We have established a solid bedtime routine but a big change is the location--from my room to his. Currently I walk and shush to get him fully asleep before putting him in my bed. If he isn't fully asleep he wakes up within 10-20 min.

We do naps and nights with white noise.

Questions:
1) Should I tackle Nightime and naps simultaneously? Or work on night and keep day sleeps as good as we can get them in the carrier so he isn't OT for night?

2) Ditch the pacifier so we can do PU/PD?  Cold turkey?  I saw there was a gentle ween approach but the link was broken. Anyone have that?  He likes to suck on his hands so if we ditched the swaddle and went to a zipadeezip he may not need the paci.

3) I feed him 3x between 10pm-5:30am.  He wakes more frequently than that but doesn't want to eat nor nurse for comfort. Will one dream feed suffice?  11:00?  He typically wakes around 10:30 or 11:30 to eat and again at 3:30 and then I feed him at 5:00 to try to get him back to sleep until 7:00.

4) Any other advice for a touchy baby who only has eyes for me?  I do 90% of his care because my husband works and tends to our toddler primarily. I'm a bit scared to do this training!!!!

Thank you

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Hi and welcome to BW! I am off to bed so I don't have time for a proper reply - your title caught my eye as my DD2 was a very touchy baby (and a total mommy's girl as well!). Just two quick things - what is the current routine in EAS format and also just an fyi for you that bf info has changed a lot since the books were written (but of course with Tracy passing they have never been updated). Many babies are not ready for a 4 hr routine at 4 months when they are ebf and a few nf's is still the norm at this age. It becomes tricky as their A time may increase but they still need frequent feeds - we did top up feeds before naps to combat this.

[Sharwellstudio]

Thank you for the quick reply.  Yes, he is touchy and a mama's boy!  Thanks for the info on the EBF babes.  He doesn't seem ready to be on the 4 hour, but last week I moved him to about 1:45 awake time.  Here is 2 consecutive days last week (the first is fairly atypical as he took 2 long naps which resulted in an early bedtime and got 15 hours of sleep in 24, the second is more typical with 13 hours of sleep):

*NW= times he woke but I didn't feed him

Wake up: 7:15
E: 7:30 x15 min
A:
S: 9:00-9:47 (0:47)
E: 10:10 x12min
A:
S: 11:45-1:05 (1:20)
E: 1:10 x15 min
A:
E: 2:20 x10min--a top off like you said
S: 2:55-4:30 (1:35) wow!!!
E: 4:45 x10min
A:
E: 6:15 x15min
S: 6:40 asleep for bed time (a bit early, but a catnap would have pushed us to a late bedtime)
NW #1: 7:47, picked up, shushed and walked
S: 7:50-10:20
E: 10:20 (x20min)
S: 10:40-11:47
NW #2: 11:47, picked up, replaced paci, walked
S: 11:50-1:20
E: 1:20 (x20min)
S:1:40
NW#3: 1:49, picked up, replaced paci
S: 1:50-3:50
E: 3:50-4:20 (x30min)
S: 4:20
NW#4: 5:10, picked up, shushed, patted
S: 5:12-6:00
E: 6:00(x30min)
S: 6:30-6:40

Wake up: 6:40
E: 7:40 x10min
A:
S: 9:10-9:55 (0:45)
E: 10:15 x13min
A:
S: 11:45-12:55 (0:50)
E: 1:05 x8min
A:
S: 2:35-3:10 (0:35)
E: 3:55 x16min
A:
S: 4:55-5:22 (0:27)
E: 5:40 x8min
A:
E: 7:00 x 17min
S: 7:25-10:25 (3:00) bedtime
E: 10:25 x16min
S: 10:57-12:37 (1:40)
E: 12:40 x17min
S: 12:57-2:19 (1:22)
NW: 2:19
S: 2:23-4:10 (1:47)
E: 4:15 x18min... couldn't get him to stay asleep for any amount of time until 5:10!
S: 5:10-6:00 picked him up and held him
S: held from 6:00-6:30, placed in pack n play at 6:30
Wake up: 6:48

[Sharwellstudio]

So, can this BW technique be successful in a tpuchy 5 month old baby? Or am I just setting myself up for disappointment and way more hard work?  If I can't use a pacifier and he still needs to be swaddled with both arms down, what will he use to self soothe?  I tried the zipadeezip last night and he never got into a deep sleep. Woke aftrrt 40 minutes freaking out!  Finally swaddled him and he calmed down and went right to sleep.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I have actually never used pu/pd only shh/pat...my kids are all spirited (DD2 was touchy/spirited) and I just knew it would never work as they were very stubborn kids. So I went with a gentler approach of shh/pat and gradual withdrawal. I think current SIDS guidlines mention not weaning a soother until after 6 months (but I need to check that info as I am not 100% certain). I had success with BW while using soothers with two of my kids but we spent a lot of time in the daytime teaching them to replug.

One thing that jumps out is the A times - have a look here Average A times- BOOKMARK ME! as your lo seem pretty low for his age. He may be getting naps that are short from being undertired and then getting overtired from no restorative naps...which in turn could affect the night sleep.

[Sharwellstudio]

Thanks Heidi,
"Gentle withdrawal" for the soother or shush pat? How old were your kids when you attempted shush pat?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I use gradual withdrawal in combo with shh/pat...the soother we kept until 2.5 with DD1 and DD3 is 2.5 now and still uses hers. DD2 sucked her thumb.

DD2 was about 3 weeks old when I started using shh/pat - but I used white noise instead of shhing because it seemed to help her more. I gradually did less and less patting, eventually just using the weight of my hand. DD3 didn't like the patting part so I just sat by her crib (we did have a bit of a hand holding prop around age 1 that I had to wean lol). DD1 was an angel baby when it came to sleep until she started teething lol.

I would say up those A times to see if you can get more restful naps - norm at this age is 2 longer naps and a catnap. Still normal for an ebf baby to have a few feeds at night at this age too though!

[Sharwellstudio]

Okeedokee. I will work on longer wake times. But if he is overtired or has a short nap doesn't that shorten the wake times?  He seems to get fussy around the 1:45 mark. Anything past 2 results in a meltdown typically. We'll see what I can figure out....

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Sorry I suppose I should have mentioned...start with the first A and see how it goes. When I did this with DD2 at this age (she was touchy and also showed tired signs) someone on here pointed out that tired signs can be boredom signs or also learned - ie the lo is used to a certain nap time so gets fussy at the same time. DD2 very much liked to run by a strict schedule not just a routine so I kept the last bit of A time super low key to extend - I walked up and down our hallway singing (badly!) songs from disney movies lol. Maybe try 2 hours consistenly for a few days and then go from there?

[Sharwellstudio]

Ok then, tomorrow first A time 2 hours. Today got off to a bad start. He wouldn't go back to sleep after the 5:30 wake up... Apparently needing to go poo throws everything off. He wouldn't sleep or eat. Maybe we are back on track now.

Btw, I love that you named your daughter Elliotte. If we had had a girl I would have been pulling hard to name her that.

[weaver]

DD2 very much liked to run by a strict schedule

My touchy one did too.  Sensitive to both OT and OS, but with a good solid routine, slept really well.  Also needed a long wind down. 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Btw, I love that you named your daughter Elliotte. If we had had a girl I would have been pulling hard to name her that.

Thanks! A good friend suggested it too me and then a lovely lady on here had the exact same suggestion so it was meant to be. DH did not like it at first lol.

I used A times and tired signs to a point and then figured out timings and ran by the clock until she had either crap naps or nw/ew and then tweaked until I sorted a new routine. I swear she could tell time!

[weaver]

I used A times and tired signs to a point and then figured out timings and ran by the clock until she had either crap naps or nw/ew and then tweaked until I sorted a new routine. I swear she could tell time!

Ditto!  Interestingly, he had a freakishly early understanding of days of the week and concepts of time, so it had its positives

[Sharwellstudio]

DD2 very much liked to run by a strict schedule

My touchy one did too.  Sensitive to both OT and OS, but with a good solid routine, slept really well.  Also needed a long wind down. 

Yeah I think I might need a long wind down and total darkness when I finally get him into his crib.  Did you all pick up and shush pat when the cries became escalated?  Did you  stay still and not sway?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

DD2 liked to be held completely still and very tightly! No rocking/swaying/bouncing at all. Oh and forgot to mention along with our white noise we blacked out the room completely.