Author Topic: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old  (Read 3502 times)

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Offline weaver

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2016, 09:54:00 am »
Dark room, no swaying for us.  But bear in mind you need to do what works for your baba.  There might be things he likes that mine didn't :) however, being touchy, I'd say it's likely he would prefer less stimulation, so no swaying.  Your LO is nearly 5 mos  - around then I would've been holding in the dark, with a gentle sh-pat, and when he was relaxing, transferring into the cot and keeping up the sh-pat, winding it down gently til it stops.  Just keeping a hand on him helped too. 

We never used white noise, I've heard good things, but LO and I are both sensitive to noise so seemed like it would stimulate rather than relax, iyswim. 
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline Sharwellstudio

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2016, 15:24:27 pm »
Was all set to get off on the right foot this morning and then 5:20 hit and he was wide awake. After trying everything to get him back to sleep and failing miserably I put him back down and did a dramatic  wake up at 7:00. Got him in the carrier for a nap at 7:20 and he was asleep without protest. So 2 hour A time but not an ideal time of day. He is waking at the 45 min mark so I am trying to get him back to sleep.

Opting for nap training in his own room and in the crib instead of nighttime training starting tomorrow. I think it is backwards from what experts recommend but I am having too much anxiety about nights in my sleep-deprived, emotional state.  Getting naps in his bed will help me be present for my other son. Wish me luck...

Offline weaver

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2016, 19:12:47 pm »
Tracy always said that night time follows day sleep - get the day sleep right and the nights follow.  You're not doing it backwards!
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline Sharwellstudio

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2016, 20:57:27 pm »
Interesting!  Thanks, Anne.  I sure hope Tracy is correct!

Offline grace annes mommy

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2016, 01:32:11 am »
Hi there,
I replied on your other thread about the rock and play as well, but only had a sec.  Fussing baby!
I would definitely try to just get the naps in the crib and not worry about night sleep yet.  I've actually purposely not weaned off the rock and play bc we'll be going out of town in a couple weeks and it's so portable!  I'd much prefer her to sleep in it until then and work on getting her out when we get back.
My DD1 was very touchy/spirited.  I'm still sorting out DD2, but she def. reminds me an awful lot of her sister!  What has helped - a looong "pre-wind down."  I put DD on my hip in the sling and walk around for a good 20+ mins before a nap.  Did this with DD1 and often do it now.  It helps them slowly unwind and I try to get a few things done around the house so I have more *me* time during her nap.  With both, I do black out blinds and loud, rumbly white noise for sleeps.  DD1 was swaddled for ages and DD2 is still swaddled now.  I thought I *should* wean it, but she's just not ready yet.  DD2 is not quite an independent sleeper yet, so for her WDs, I rock her until very drowsy, then set her down in either the rock and play or crib and pat her the rest of the way off.  She is able to SS sometimes during NWs, so I do feel every little bit of practice helps.
Hope this helps a bit.


Offline Sharwellstudio

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2016, 14:49:42 pm »
Excellent grace annes mommy!
I appreciate both responses. I typically wear my LO for naps and have just been plopping him in there right about sleep time. This week I have increased the time he is in there to see if he'd get drowsy and I think he does. ( when I wear him for naps  I use loud brown noise,which is lower than white noise and really calms him down, and use a small blanket over the top to block out visual stimulation).
I really need him to nap in his crib and get SS down!  I know it will take time and a lot of trial and error to get things pretty good.
 I wonder should I start fresh tomorrow with naps or try later today once my other son leaves for Grandma's.

Offline grace annes mommy

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2016, 18:55:30 pm »
Do whatever feels right for you.  Is there a nap you think he settles easiest for?  For us, it used to be the first nap, so I would try to settle that one in the crib.  If it was a short nap, I'd let her catch up in the ergo for the next nap.  For some, they find a cold turkey approach easiest.  But for me and my girls, I've preferred to do things more gradually.  Starting with one nap, then all naps, then night sleep.  You might not see results as quickly this way, but they will come.


Offline Sharwellstudio

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2016, 19:39:32 pm »
Thank you again.  Since I have the time to dedicate to him and this process for the next 3 days I am going to try all naps in there.  Maybe nights in the rock n play, but in his room, or maybe the crib.  He has been with us in our room since the start.  I think I should camp out in his room so I don't have to make the trek for the first few nights.  Thanks for your attention and suggestions.  I'm sure I'll be crawling back here this weekend for encouragement and to provide updates. 

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2016, 21:17:30 pm »
Best of luck.

Please read up on SIDS guidelines in your area - the recommendation is generally that babies should share a room, up to 6 mo I think.  I had my LOs (incl the touchy one!) in my room til over 12 mos.  What we did was alternate where the grown-ups slept! But that's another story. :)
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline Sharwellstudio

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2016, 21:02:20 pm »
:: UPDATE :: UPDATE :: UPDATE ::

Hi everyone. I started to put LO down drowsy but awake last Thursday afternoon in his crib for the first time ever. He went to sleep with very little fuss and stayed asleep for more than an hour and 15 min. IT WAS AMAZING. He was swaddled with arms down and had a pacifier. I should mention this is the first time (and only time) that he had age appropriate naps too. Took 2 1.5 hour naps in the carrier earlier that day  and had 2 hours between each nap. He put himself to sleep for nighttime too but then was up 20 min later and every 1:20 thereafter. IT WAS AWFUL. (I'm not even night training for crying out loud!!!!!)

Each subsequent night has been terrible but all have been different. I think we are finding what works so he can soothe to sleep for naps. (Long wind down: in the carrier for at least 10 min, soft music then paci and swaddle, white noise on, curtains drawn, walk and sing and put him in before he is asleep, pat and shh if he fusses--today he did so good with little murmurings for a minute before he dozed off and I did very little pats and shhs)...

Then is all goes wonky!  He is waking between 20-43 min and hasn't gone back to sleep. This morning he woke happy and still had the paci... After 24 minutes!  I went in when he started to fuss after he lost the pacifier 12 min later. He only settled when I replaced the pacifier. Then he "slept" 20 more but he was just kicking and tossing and wriggling in light sleep. After 20 min he spit out the pacifier and screamed.

I don't know whether to shorten A time when he doesnt get restful sleep. Do people have success with that? I am always second guessing if he is UT or OT. Unfortunately I can't take the 20 + min to resettle him after screaming since I have my 2 year old to look after.

One issue we have is nights and early morning wakings. He has been up way more often during the night since we started this "soothe yourself to sleep for naps" training and he still wakes in the 5 o'clock hour daily. Sometimes he will nurse and fall asleep after 5:00, but it is a great challenge for me to stay still while he nurses for a long while and continue to not move while he sleeps. If I move him he will wake. Very light sleeper in the AM hours!!!!  So we have only made it to the 7:00  wake up one time. He is usually awake way before that. This sets us up for needing more naps and/or an early BT. Many times an early BT (5:30) isn't possible in this household so most nights (4 of 5) he has been awake 3 hours before bed. Is there something else I should be doing? We tried late catnaps in the carrier and he wouldn't fall asleep.

There may be some growth spurting going on, as he is eating more frequently and at night seems to be camped out on the boob!  Or is he just working me so that he can be with me?

What was working before this nap training was that he would start the night co-sleeping and I would move him after the first nursing session. Now he doesn't sleep after the nursing sessions! He wakes either immediately upon putting him down or within 15 minutes.

The pacifier is an issue. He does great with it to start but then needs it to resettle. So I am the idiot on the other end replugging all the time!!!

I am exhausted. I feel my happiness and mood depends on LO's sleep and I'm trying so hard. Someone want to help me tackle this?  I'm committed to continuing what we have done for naps for another 3 days before trying something different. Nights are a nightmare and I have no solutions at this time.

Our goals:
Sleep in crib for naps --CHECK!
Fall asleep on his own--CHECK!
Put himself back to sleep when he wakes before appropriate time
Put himself to sleep for BT-- CHECK!
Sleep between nursing sessions at night (only wake 2-3 times like he did before the regression)
Sleep in his own bed all night
Sleep after 5am until 7:00ish

Thanks!



« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 21:52:08 pm by Sharwellstudio »

Offline grace annes mommy

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2016, 00:47:02 am »
Hi hun,

First off - the fact that your guy is getting the hang of self settling is HUGE! Yay! to both of you!!!

Is he sleeping in his crib now at night?  Or is he still in the rock and play or in your room?

Sorry your nights are so unsettled.  My hunch is he's a bit OT.  But, do you want to post what your day is looking like now?  Like this:

Wake up - what time
E - what time/how long
A - how long from eyes open to eyes shut
S - what time, how long,
etc.

It is possible the paci is a bit of a prop.  But it could also just be a timing issue with the short naps and night waking.

If you get a short nap, yes, you may want to shorten the next A time.  Does he give pretty clear sleepy cues?  If not, you'll probably want to watch the clock and shorten the A time by 15 or 30 mins.  It's trial and error, really.

It's definitely possible he's having a bit of a growth spurt.  Also possible he's doing a bit of comfort nursing.  Hard to say just yet, but once we see your whole day it may give a better picture.

I know it's really easy to get caught up with sleep, but do celebrate the tiny successes! You've had some pretty big ones already!!  Things will improve.  Especially with these touchy guys, it just takes a little extra patience and problem solving.  You're doing great!




Offline Sharwellstudio

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2016, 03:24:11 am »
Thank you!

Yes, over the moon on falling asleep on his own. ;D  I thought it would solve so many problems!  It hasn't yet but I think there are lots of other factors in play.

He doesn't give great sleep cues. I tend to notice it when he starts to get really fidgety or fussy. So I have been watching the clock primarily. I have been using the 2-2-2-2 "rule".

For nights I have transitioned our routine to his room and he falls asleep in his bed. But for the last 3 nights I have been unable to get him to fall back to sleep after his waking in the early evening hours.  He screams and if I do PUPD he cries again as soon as I put him back. The other night I tried 7 or 8 times. He went right to sleep in my arms when I left him there long enough. So he came into bed with me. During the night i try to place him in the rock n play near my bed but he hasn't been taking too kindly to it and is awake 0-15 min later.

Here's a schedule:
Wake up: 7:27
E: 8:31, 11 min (had been sleep nursing for an hour before wake up)
A: 7:27-9:26 (59min)
S:9:26-10:22 (55min)
E: 11:00, 15 min and 12:20 short bout adding up to 15 min
A:10:22-1:04 (2:42) ;(. Worked with the plan for more than 45 min and he screamed. I was so distraught. Got him to sleep in my arms and put him in the rocking rock n play.
S: 1:04-1:49 (44min), then 1:52-2:08 (16 min) after my intervention
E: 2:19, 8 min and 3:05, 11min
A:2:08-4:47 (2:39) again we struggled to get him down. I don't think he had a long enough wind down time because my toddler arrived home overtired and was whining and crying around this time.
S: 4:47-5:13 (25min) in carrier after I gave up
E: 5:20, 9 min and 6:30, 12 min
A: 5:13-6:59 (1:46) til BT
S: 6:59-7:45, 7:55-9:30
E: 9:30, 10min
S: 9:40-10:27
E:10:27 , 10min
S:10:40-11:48
E:11:48, 12 min
S: 12:01-1:40
E: 1:45, 20min
S: 2:08-4:08
E: 4:08 (?) nursed in side lying so I could sleep
S: 5:53-6:03 nursed and slept
S: 6:24-6:48

I feel that was the roughest day and a terrible night. Growth spurt with all the eating!!!  Too many wake ups.
Wake up 6:48

Offline grace annes mommy

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2016, 19:46:41 pm »
Oof, that is a rough night! Looks like he was up every hour or 2 to nurse?  That's seeming more of a prop/comfort thing than a growth spurt.  Is anything bothering him? teeth? a cold?  have we talked about reflux?  Here, with that many NWs, I'd be thinking something is bothering him.

He may be confused if you are going back and forth between wanting him to settle in his crib but then you bring him to your bed.  I know it's so so hard when you're tired, but if you really want him only in his crib, you will need to be really consistent and probably get DH on board to help you settle.  It's your choice, though.  I know plenty of BWs who APOP or cosleep until later on and just try to follow the EAS pattern.  (Full disclosure - I'm a total APOPer, so may not be the best to guide you thru in that regard.)

A times for this age are in the 2 to 2.5 hour range.  I'm wondering if that first nap he was a bit UT, but then he ended up OT by the next nap and for the rest of the day?  Hard to tell really, but with all the NWs, I'd definitely lean toward OT.  Here, a wakeup 30 or 40 mins after bed is OT.

Keep in mind too, that he's gone thru a big change by sleeping in the crib.  It will take a while (esp. as a touchy) for things to settle down.  As I said, consistency is important - especially, i think for touchy LOs.  But I would also want to rule out any discomfort before anything else.


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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2016, 20:24:52 pm »
especially, i think for touchy LOs
Absolutely.  Things can be quite black and white with touchies. 

I would also want to rule out any discomfort before anything else.
Totally agree with this too.
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: Need to start training TOUCHY 4.75 month old
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2016, 22:19:22 pm »
especially, i think for touchy LOs
Absolutely.  Things can be quite black and white with touchies. 

I would also want to rule out any discomfort before anything else.
Totally agree with this too.

Agree with both. I sleep trained my touchy girl from 3 weeks old (was a very gradual process of using shh/pat because of her age - have honestly never used pu/pd with any of mine) and it took quite some time before we got anywhere...but once it was done and she finally slept on her own (with a blip around 4 - 5 months of 45 naps and ew) we never really had to do much more exceptngo back to a bit of.patting during illness etc.
Heidi