A little guidance 🙏🏼

[FPT23]

Hellooo everyone!

I need some help 

I am having quite a bit of a struggle here with my 3 week old (almost 4) son. Now, I am aware he is a tiny little thing... But maybe some advice to help ease us some.

First of all, a little information to get you lovely ladies up to speed. I am super familiar with EASY and everything about the books! They worked wonders on my first son (in time  !) ...but I remember I started later on with him, and learning about it all towards the 4-5th month. Now that I have my second, I thought it would be easier--- hmmm.... Sort of?  ....I brought him home w/ the ultimate intentions of, putting down awake and definitely doing EASY. The EASY I have down. Of course, his time is not very predictable just yet! All I can say is he takes around 4 naps a day and the length can vary usually 2-2.5 hrs but sometimes he wakes once and I help him back down. He also isn't nursed to sleep (sometimes and definitely on accident so I just let him lay with me) as we have been doing EASY... Ever since he became a bit more awake, (I'm aware of his wake times as well! So our time together is pretty short. Only enough for nursing, diaper changes, and a little nap routine I've set in as well) we've had to start helping him to sleep. I was lucky at first on a few occasions where he would fall asleep on his own after being put down awake.. Now, he requires more help. So here's where I would love some guidance 

Getting him to sleep takes HOURS and ESPECIALLY at his "bedtime" ....or his last put down of the day which lands around 9-10pm give or take. I know they say you can't "spoil" your newborns, but he knows exactly what he's doing. I ended up having to rock him for comfort. I don't mind it, and was doing the drowsy thing.. It had worked and suddenly stopped. Well, now he will shriek horrendously so and we are up from around 9pm-1am every night just getting him to sleep. I don't think this is normal. Not even with my first and he was crazy! Even times I nurse just to get him down, doesn't work. It's getting a bit intense. I don't exaggerate here... Hours. To. Sleep. He's a very insistent little man. I don't like or do CIO. I have responded to all cries and tears but I'm reach quite a bit of a limit... As soon as he's down, he's up. Screaming. We do the up, soothe.. Fall asleep and down... Then up again... It is now keeping up my other toddler as well.

Now I should maybe be grateful that he's been a decent night sleeper (most nights not all- he's had his days of course) and sleeps 5-6 hour stretches. What's funny is at nights I've heard him wake and fuss and settle himself? Go right back to sleep.

Please someone help us. I feel this is getting a bit too much. We've tried it all. This is the same deal for all sleep. We are going on 3 hours of trying and out of desperation, I am here as my dear husband attempts for the millionth time to get him to sleep.

Ideas?? Swing won't help either.

He is swaddled (miracle blanket) ...white noise as well and breast fed. Currently no physical issues that we are aware of..

Thanks!

[FPT23]

Any help would b wonderful!

Getting him to actually sleep takes hours. At which point it gets impossible as I do have my other boys 😭 Please help with getting this easier. 3 + hours to get him to nap or bed, it's too much and inconvenient. If he was my first I would have more time

Helpp

[jessmum46]

Hugs, as hard as it sounds this could well be within normal behaviour for a baby of this age - I remember just how tricky it was with my DD.  Felt like I was rocking, nursing, rocking, nursing etc etc for hours before she would go off   You really have my sympathy . Although Tracy said to start as you mean to go on, as a second-time round Mum sometimes you have to let that relax a little and just go with what works for now, keeping the end goal in mind but not trying to achieve everything in a day.  If you have a rough EASY that's amazing for now!  I'd highly recommend a sling or wrap for those fussy times, really seems to calm LOs down and also gives you free hands for the older one.  In a few weeks you will likely see huge changes as LO settles down more and is in a better position to start learning independent sleep.  I had some success from 8-9 weeks just trying one nap a day in the crib whilst my oldest watched TV and deliberately doing other naps in the car, pram or sling.  Then once that first one got easier worked on the others.  Overall you are doing brilliantly with two LOs!  It's a massive learning curve so go easy on yourself xx

[FPT23]

Thank u SO much for your reply Jessmum! I have been checking back religiously for some advice or support 🙏🏼❤️ Yes i feel so guilty and it's harder with another toddler around! I appreciate your kind words as they really eased my heart.  ..feels better to communicate w/ others who can relate and understand each other. Again, I appreciate your assurance at a difficult time ❤️

Yes a pretty good EASY, but not predictable by the clock yet or naps etc. which I don't mind for now as I know later he will adjust. The one thing I just would prefer to avoid is "nursing" to sleep. Only b/c it's sooooo hard to stop later and to break the habit is more emotional than say, rocking  :-/ ......calming him down is not the issue, though. He can be calmed easily as soon as he's held and will fall right back to sleep quickly.... In our arms or rocking. The problem is as soon as we lay down and he wakes, he won't have it. And we do this cycle for 3+ hours which with a toddler around, it's just not fair either.  But at bedtime we r so exhausted and staying up so late is not ideal for us. But I mean, 3+ hours!? 

...all of it caused by getting him asleep on us, and we put down, he wakes... And he's anything but calm. During the day it doesn't seem AS long of a process (but still, difficult) and I normally just rock. So I was curious as to why such a duration at this time of night? Or anything I could do.

Is there a way to help prevent or ease the sleep props or minimize them? Is "put down awake/drowsy" pointless at the moment?

I just need hope that in time it will ease as it is hard -- I forgot how it was. Just some guidance or any advice or hope 🙏🏼

[FPT23]

I've resulted to having him just nurse or "pacify" just to get him to sleep and again, it is something I would prefer to avoid 😞 As I mentioned above why.

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[jessmum46]

At this age colic is common, or certainly a very unsettled period lasting hours.  Honestly I would do what it takes for now, your rest and sanity and whole family context is more important than slaving away at independent sleep.  With DD when she was like this I nursed, rocked, did whatever and held her for a good 20+ minutes after she eventually slept before putting her down. This helps to make sure they are in a deep sleep and less likely to startle awake again.  There was a huge difference in her by 8-10 weeks and at that point we were able to move away from nursing quite so much, though she still nursed to sleep or almost asleep at bedtime for a number of months. It didn't become a prop though . I think the concept of the 4th trimester is a good one for this age, babies are used to being carried and rocked and it takes time for them to adjust to the outside world.  My personal feeling is that props don't really start to become so much of an issue until the 3-4 month mark, so try to relax about it for now.  I deliberately wore DS for naps when he was tiny and it made life so much easier, but he was going down independently at nap time from around 3 months xx

[FPT23]

I appreciate your responding ❤️

It truly seems as props already as he cant sleep without 😞 He's very persistent.

May I ask your approach when u said nursing never became a prop and how/when did you start your independent sleep.

It's been rough :-/ so soon

[Haribo2012]

Hi not that it's any help to you I just thought I'd pop on and say your not alone! I have a 6 week old DS2 who doesn't nap very well in his Moses basket most of the time he sleeps on me or in pram/car seat. I have nearly 4 year old so at the minute were are just doing what we can to manage both kids needs and not get too overtired. Our day roughly is up feed, get myself dressed and DS2 in the sling and pretty much wear him until next feed so can sort DS1 out get a few jobs done, feed then into pram for a walk or car seat if going somewhere and pretty much repeat that until evening witching hour etc when DH wears him for a bit.
With DS1 I was very into good sleep routines and trying to get him napping independently but this time round I'm just having to go with the flow for now, aiming to get a bit more sorted by 12 weeks age.

[FPT23]

Haribo2012

Thanks for chiming in!!!! Good to know I'm not alone! ❤️ Thank u!!

Oh man we are in about the same boat then! I have a 4 year old. I feel so bad leaving him so often to tend to the NB 

Not to mention my NB has a temper! 
I just hope we manage something soon b/c it is a new challenge :-/

[Haribo2012]

My DS2 really struggles in the evenings with colic type symptoms and also has silent reflux so it's all good fun 

To top it off 4 yr old thinks it's not fair he's not in our bedroom so keeps waking and coming in lol...it's like musical chairs in our house all day and night!

Does your 4 yr old go to preschool or nursery so you get to look after just newbie?x

[FPT23]

He does but only 3 hours a day so it's not much.. I appreciate ur input. It's so difficult at times.

Jessmum,

What was your approach and around when? Also, how did u avoid nursing as a prop?

[FPT23]

Also,

When he short naps- what do U do? I feed bc I never know if it's a growth spurt or he's hungry etc. I've tried to get him back to sleep but, he usually won't and just stays upset and then it spirals from there

[jessmum46]

I think from about 8 weeks with DS I started trying for one nap a day in the crib, usually the first nap. I had a reasonable idea of A time so started a short winddown (literally just darken room, hold and sing twinkle twinkle and then put him down.  Left him to it if happy, or if upset I stayed with a hand on his tummy and stroked his head until he settled.  Always with the 'do the minimum' thought in my head but helped as much as was needed.  If it clearly was going nowhere in 15 mins or so I just picked him up and stuck him in the sling, and tried again the next day.  Won some, lost some!  It clicked around 10 weeks for him and he got much easier to put down most of the time. 

With nursing, DD didn't nurse to sleep for naps (I just didn't use it as an option beyond the first few weeks) but did pass out while feeding at bedtime, probably because she was rubbish at napping after a few weeks I was able to *just* stir her as I put her down enough that she might briefly open her eyes or stick her thumb in.  Over time she just didn't doze off quite so much after her feed.  We also introduced a story which initially I read whilst she fed, then gradually moved that so the story came after a feed.  It was all very gradual over a few months but my aim was always independent sleep, so we kept taking steps in that direction.  DS just wouldn't nurse to sleep even if I wanted him to! but he was the one who ended up with habit night feeds for a while - go figure hey?!

Short naps - well I just had a half-hearted go at a resettle but if no joy in max 5 mins we got up and carried on with the day, maybe shortened next A time just a touch but I consciously decided with another LO to care for, no great attempts were going to be made at nap extension.  To be honest having now done it twice - once with a rubbish napper/great night sleeper and once with a pretty good napper but unsettled at night - I think most of the first year is pretty up and down and things really only start getting sensible once they are on one nap!  Sounds like forever away but you will be there before you know it x

[FPT23]

Thanks for the help!

Yes seems long and seems to be going slowwwwww too

I'll keep praying 🙏🏼

[FPT23]

Question!

Could our long nights of unsettling be caused by late morning wakes? He woke at 5am for a full feed after finally getting down at midnight... Then slept until 9am

? Or no it doesn't affect them? I figured maybe a day/night confusion? His naps have been bonkers too lately as I mentioned but he at least goes down and get 1 long nap...

What do u think? Or prb not at 1 month old this would apply...

[FPT23]

Desperate:

Update! Is this normal??? I've been attempting to sleep from 7pm to now 12am! And he's still not asleep!!

Swing, wearing him... Rocking, nursing. He falls asleep and is up within 5 mins... This doesn't seem natural. I have another child and this is impossible. He will cry at all costs no matter what. I cannot put him down nor do I believe in letting him cry

Something has to give. He's not fussy- he just wants to sleep in my arms. I waited the 20-30 min mark to move him also (toddler needs dinner and bedtime too..hubby needs lunch for work!) and wearing him for free arms was pointless.... He wakes w any and all noises. Please help. This can't be normal 😞 (1mth old)

[jessmum46]

Deep breaths, and (((hugs))).  I know this is super-stressful and hard right now.  If you are worried, have your GP check him over but if he's not fussy, it doesn't sound like pain or discomfort to me.  Honestly, truly, at one month old this is very common behaviour.  My DD was exactly this way.  DS was a dream in the evenings from about 10 days old so if I'd had him first I'd have definitely thought there was something wrong with DD, but there wasn't.  She was just a normal baby who got OT and OS by the end of the day, and (seeing her now and knowing more about her pretty spirited personality) it makes sense how hard it was to settle her. 

Take 5 minutes, think about the priorities right now, and what you *can* do, and then make yourself a plan.  For me at this point it was 'preserve the older LOs routine and sleep'.  So if baby cries through the older ones BT routine, so be it.  (Obviously with you, not in any way advocating CIO).  Get hubby to step up and make his own lunch.  Give the toddler sandwiches for dinner.  Or something equally easy.  And just hang in there, it will pass xx

[FPT23]

He's OT and I don't think pain at the moment! He's easy to settle! Almost immediately but it's when we put him down he wakes and then it's over. The process continues all night. We were up till 1am!

Well, my husband wakes at 3am for work
He needs his rest and is helping a lot. He works very demanding hours and is rarely home so I'm going crazy! I'm sorry for the overreacting but this is truly impossible it seems! I don't want to leave him alone to cry (yes I don't enjoy CIO methods) ...and lose trust or bond w me. But also, I'm having to put the other toddler down and I'm skipping book time, or rushing him and getting upset about it BC the baby is crying for help to sleep. I don't know which way to go about it!?

I feel like a bad mom to both sometimes...

Is this truly normall??? Could it be their clock? I noticed times when we were up early and nights seemed easier and he slept more. Is it BC I let him sleep in? Truly it's BC he wakes around 4-6am to eat (depending when he fell asleep the night before!) and then I let him sleep in so I can get extra hours of rest as well. During the day I really can't and my support is super limited.

Advice? Help? Support?

[FPT23]

Is there any possible way to elongate his naps? Routine or even a lose routine is not working and I could use some more predictability. He's awake after 20-30 mins sometimes sooner.

I'm following awake times. And he was sleeping very good naps before when I followed them...? Ideas?

Also, I'm BFing and when he early wakes from a nap.... He's so upset. I never really know how to soothe him other than give him boob! I never really never know when he's hungry. He's always rooting and I follow EAS routine so he eats before. Also, I feel I turned him into a snacker by doing this.

If he short naps, how do I soothe? Would I return to sleep? Or just keep up a little and try again later? Should I just feed at the 3 hr mark so he can get that full feed rather than snack around after short naps through out the day? (I wasn't sure if that applied to EAS in that case) ...he has short naps ALL DAY and as we know, he's a disaster Come evening hours. 🙏🏼

[jessmum46]

Prioritise the toddler, stick the baby in a sling and do your toddlers bedtime as normal (as near normal as you can anyway!).  The younger ones needs are very physical but your older one has emotional needs too and I would prioritise that bedtime closeness and connection.  Sure it won't be exactly the same as it was, they both have to get used to each other being there, but baby sleep is all over the place anyway so I'd aim to keep the toddler in the right routine.

If you found nights were easier with an early start to the day by all means get the little one up when the older one wakes and at least have them both roughly on the same schedule.  We did that kind of by accident with DS and he did go down well in the evening, but whether that was just him or not I can't really say.

If he's rooting a lot have you tried a dummy?  It can be hard to decide if they are hungry but it might be worth considering  if he's keen to suck.  That said he's so tiny you can't really over-feed and you may given time be able to distinguish the different cues a bit more easily.  He may not go 3 hours between feeds yet, many breast fed babies can't in the early weeks.  I wouldn't worry too much about snacking yet either, I know you are super-keen to avoid bad habits but really he is so, so tiny, I would be focussing more on just adjusting to two children and not setting both of you up to feel miserable because you didn't 'achieve' something.

(((Hugs))), I can tell you are struggling but please just hang in there, he is so small and chaos is normal, as is tiredness.  You can and will do this have you got friends or family nearby to reach out to?

[Haribo2012]

It's 5.40pm my 6 week old is screaming the house down, been fed and cuddled so he's off in the bath. Toddler is whinging he's tired wants a drink, snack extra cake u name it so he's off in the bath next. DS2 will have a little feed then prob scream for rest of evening until about 10pm when he will settle. We will eat our dinner in shifts in between putting older one to bed as he needs decent sleep tonight for nursery,

Chaos reins it's stressful but it's just how I remember it being with DS1 minus the toddler of course oh and minus reflux!

Honestly sweetie I think you might just have to think the naps will come as LO gets older.

[FPT23]

Jessmum,

I've tried the sling and he fusses too or won't sleep in it because of all the noise and stuff going around him. Well, my son goes to school from 11:15am-2:30pm ...so it's hard to really "routine" around that. I can't focus entirely on baby for a nap and just leave my toddler alone. BUT if NB doesn't sleep, or isn't helped- he just cries and cries! Swing, sling, ...I just don't know how I can possibly do both. Car rides don't even soothe him. I don't feel he's in any pain either for that matter.

As far as the feedings: he can go 3 hours! He was doing very well before. He would do morning nap plus 1 hour awake time (3 hrs ish total) ...then eat. Then the same thing through he rest of the day! He was a napping King and also, 5-6 hour night stretches. So, clearly, he must've been eating!? I assume..... But now I just get confused. So when he short naps (wakes between 10-20/30 mins) I would just feed bc I was unsure (still am) ...if he was hungry or not. He gets on but doesn't eat "full" meals. He takes a few gulps, but falls asleep or comfort nurses, then sleeps again. Then AGAIN I'm at a loss bc he falls asleep but then it's longer between feeds- do I make sense? I hope I am! 🙄 For example, I fed this morning from 8:45am to about 9:15/9:20am ...he took a lame nap of 30 mins but then I had to get my toddler to school! Car seat (he did not settle for awhile; he hates car rides too) and then finally as I got home, he's asleep...! It's not 12:05pm and I'm not sure what to do- let him sleep (I was going to try for a nap if possible) or should I wake to feed, on the off chance that he will snack and just fall asleep on me and can't rouse easy. That's what I kinda mean. Sometimes it also takes so long to get him to sleep that I feed every 2 hours just to make sure but most is snacking....  So I never know--- back to sleep? Or feed? Both-- but then he won't have full meals it seems and I think the snacking might be dropping my supply a bit. I have tried the dummy/rocking and it seems to work but raaaarely as well. I just want to avoid BF prop. It's so hard to get rid of later that's why I'm trying my best for a loose EAS. I've settled to rocking and swinging to sleep bc I'm just trying to get through it.

Thanks for your words of encouragement. It seems too long before the storm settles. Most of my friends are working moms. Family- nooo unfortunately I don't have any. And the husband works a demanding job and is gone about 12 hrs a day.




Haribo,
Good to know I'm not alone! Mine doesn't go down from like, 7pm-1am! It's crazy! It's awful because I simply can't tend to him to ease the screams. I'm so happy to hear you and your partner shift turns. It would make for things to be so much more easier. However, my husband isn't around like that on a predictable schedule to have that luxury ...matter a fact he changes shifts every month. It's never easy. He's a law enforcement agent and well, I'm alone most of the time.

[Haribo2012]

I had no help the other night and I just had to put him in the sling and ignore the crying....he pushes on me and scratches as he's OT but does eventually give in and sleep while I do jobs x

[FPT23]

Really

I feel so bad to do that but I'm realizing it's super common... I just don't want the whole "lose trust" or something 😞😞😞😞😞

Mine screams bloody murder and like he can't breathe! It stresses me and him too. It scares me but I'm more at ease knowing many have no choice and have to make ends meet. Do what's needed to survive!!! Hehe ....mine won't do the swing tho either!!! Or maybe BC I haven't left long enough...

I'm curious to see your growth now and how you will help BW when older. Your support and how you have opened up sharing your experience as well has really made me feel better. I most def appreciate you

Does your 6 week old have any sort of a loose routine yet? Or nothing.

[FPT23]

Do you try to nap at the A times needed? Or do you just nap when you can or on the go/when in need?

[Haribo2012]

I have never let either of my lo's cry it out so its hard letting him cry but if he's in the sling on my front then he can smell me, see me etc so don't feel he will loose trust! I also just talk constantly too him when I'm trying to do stuff so either sit him in the rocker near me just telling him what I'm doing or in the sling. The hard thing is babies this age do just get OT and OS really easily so you can only do your best and when the house is a bit in chaos around tea time etc they struggle to chill out. My DS will go crazy crying on the sling but then will just give in and lay his head on my chest and sleep.  I think personally u have to persevere with a sling as with 2 it's about survival these first few weeks.

It's good to talk, I've been around here from my first DS and got lots of support.

I try to monitor A times a bit on the 3 days my oldest is at nursery but I'm kind of going with the flow for another few weeks and trying to enjoy the flexibility of no routine. I try and engineer it so I'm going out in the car or for a walk when he's fed and been awake around 1.15 hours but it doesn't always work. This morning been up with him since 5.20 and he's fighting sleep and now OT so I'm stood rocking him in one arm and getting DS1 milk and pancakes with the other ha ha!

[jessmum46]

Just to clarify as I wonder if you misread something - Zoe wasn't advocating leaving LO to cry alone in a swing, she was talking about babywearing ie having LO strapped to you in a sling so crying with you and being held.  A baby crying with you isn't CIO, that's a very different thing.  Sometimes when they are so wound up all you can do is hold them and be there.  Stopping the crying is desirable but not the whole point - it is after all the only way they can communicate

[Haribo2012]

Oh thanks Katherine yes maybe I didn't phrase it well but yes meant wearing baby x

[FPT23]

Awww Zoe is it? Thanks for such support! I understood a swing- like the ones they sit in and it rocks automatically. Thanks for the clarification Jessmum!

I've done the baby wearing but it's too much noise and light... He won't have it! Other suggestions? 😔 When do their naps and days plan out better? We were doing good! Morning afternoon and 2 later naps... 1-2hrs each then he just changed. So now I'm just going w the flow. Aware of SOME a-times not all. Will his day and naps seem more predictable on their own or something I have to do?

Oooooo sorry to hear about your early wake up! Mine as well! Bad night. He ate but then about 30 mins later after being asleep woke up due to tummy troubles. Gas! Then to get him back asleep is always a nightmare

[Haribo2012]

Of course 
For us with DS1 I think around 12 weeks things got a bit more predictable and I tried to get naps and BT sorted. I did spend a lot of time using shush pat but not sure I'll get chance this time with an older child but time will tell.! Plus with him having reflux it's not advised to pat a lot.

I don't really know what else to suggest apart from put him in the sling, wear him while you sort stuff out and try to settle him afterwards 

[FPT23]

I'll attempt the wearing I suppose!

Have things became somewhat predictable with your 6 wk old? I've given in to all rocking and some nursing to sleep because, I need to survive

Only predictable thing now is the morning nap (give or take) and the late afternoon ones but they sure aren't catnaps! I need to wake to feed him. Or cluster feed.

Question:
The dream feed. I stopped it BC it would wake him and I would stay up and extra 1-2 hours getting him asleep. So he goes down around 9ish, wakes at around 2am (normally can do a 5hr stretch on a good night)

But lately, he wakes soon as I put down and we are up till 5am .....what do u do for nights like this? I ended up bringing him to bed and let him nurse away! (Use me as a paci) ...but I don't want to form that habit or nursing as I kno how haaaaard it is to wean. Then, if he does go back down, he wakes around 5-6am.... Feeds but tends to also be harder to get back to sleep. Is that his wake for the day you think??? If I get him back to sleep he's up when toddler is around 7-7:30 but won't eat much since he had just ate. What do you make of this? When more or less does the 2am feed drop? And any suggestions w the dream feed? When he wouldn't wake during the DF, he would wake until 4-5am then 7 or so but I'm scared to DF since he's so hard to put down. Not settle, but he won't have it if he wakes after PD.

[Haribo2012]

Most predictable is the crying  no really he prob sleeps better in the afternoon but that's about the only thing I can bank on but like now he's been asleep ages and could do with a feed but I'm enjoying the peace.

Sounds like our night, only time I stay up now is if feed is around 10pm. I'd prob rock him to sleep after 2am feed and hold for 20 mins to get him into deep sleep then put down. It all sounds very similar to our nights, last night we fed at 9.15pm, 1.45am then 5am then he was up till 6.15 and asleep on my DH then till 7.30am. My DS1 wakes about 6.15 so no rest ha ha!

I think the 2am dropping varies from baby to baby....my DS1 didn't drop till 5 months but my friends dropped at 10 weeks. I'd not bother with DF if it doesn't extend the night feed wake up time!?

[FPT23]

Mine too!

He took a long morning nap. Also due for feeding but enjoyed it... But then I ended up waking bc from awake time to the nap, it was too long without. I don't want him making up for the feeds at night lately it also seems that he sleeps better at night as well. He stopped the whole long evenings after I consistently (somewhat) started his day early. That was my initial concern when I wrote the post... But I think BC of his clock, adjusting. But when we start our day early (when DS1 wakes) instead of letting him sleep in, he does better in the evenings and settles easier and is more "tired" ...in a sense. Even though I'm sure his day and nights haven't established yet, it's worked better.

See, I don't know what category of personality my baby is! DS1 was textbook. I mean, he was predictable and did everything by the book. Easy to transition into things (not sooooo easy with props but crib transition, breast to bottle to cup etc) ......anyways, DS2 settles easy. Once he's held he's pretty good. Getting him to sleep can take sometime, he jolts a lot (he's still swaddled. Miracle blanket) ...but it's when I put down! He can go on and on. I've waited for the 20 min mark, he still woke!!! So maybe he's what they call "touchy" ? Baby? Hehe! It's hard. Let me ask you Zoe, when he woke at 5am and he ate and stayed awake... Was he ready to eat at the 7:30am wake? ...yes I ended up bringing him to bed and just do his thing... DS1 wakes early too. Motherhood ey? Haha.

Well, the DF, when I used to do it, would extend him to 5am. However, the last few times he was waking and then I ended up staying up extra time getting him back to sleep.. Which extended me to midnight or so... And then he would wake at 5-6 anyway to eat. So the DF intimidates me! What if he wakes!? As long as it takes him to go to sleep... Well, put down and sleep. correction.... Any tips? I enjoyed the DF when he wasn't waking. The older he's getting, he wakes. I BF so I tried tickling his lips and such... But maybe I tried to hard BC he wasn't eating, and then woke him. I then tried bottle and that seemed to wake him faster and more since I assume it's an easier flow of milk. SOOO I don't know! Ideas? You don't DF? When is your babies BT? Ours is around 9pm lately.

Also, question for CLUSTER feeds... He's been sleeping the afternoons well (late afternoons) and def not catnapping yet in the late afternoon, but... I wake him to cluster feed. Is that ok? It's been working it seems. He's very loopy and drowsy but I change diaper etc. and he goes down eaaaasy around 9pm mark. Do you wake for cluster feeds?

[jessmum46]

Just thought I'd encourage you both to join the birth clubs (if you haven't already!) to get the support of other mums with similar struggles Re: 0-6 months, Part 2

[Haribo2012]

I've joined already so keep an eye on what the other are posting although I've not posted much as yet, I see you've joined FPT23 you'll get some good answers and help on there.

I think if he's been awake 2.5 hours after a feed and still not settling after that 5am feed id try feeding again as 2.5 hour feeding is ok.

I don't DF yet as my LO if asleep is asleep and won't open his mouth for his feed, I did DF DS1 but prob didn't start this until 10-12 weeks as I was going with the flow until then. At the min we do bath around 6pm then feed and hope he drops off about 7pm but he's a pain to put down in the evening so he ends up being awake on and off until feed around 9/9.30pm.

I don't do cluster feeding, didn't work for me last time so haven't bothered this time round.

[FPT23]

Yes I joined! Thank you

Yes I've done the feed by that time if he stays up. What about if he's up at 5am and won't go down or wakes? What to do then? He will cry if put down awake- not just "hangout" peacefully.

When is an earlier BT suggested? He could do an earlier one I think..... I just don't so I can sleep when he does mostly. For example if BT is at 7-8, I prb won't be asleep or b able to sleep by then. And his first wake may land around 12am (if he does a long stretch) and then I'm worried his next wake will be his morning wake for him. Since he typically wakes twice to feed. You know?

Bah it's all a confusion haha.

I don't DF anymore for fear of waking!! I did it with my first but also later on if i remember correctly

[FPT23]

Last night he slept from 9:45-10ish pm (can't remember, he fell asleep on me and I didn't move him till he was out cold. Toddler got a random fever and got sick so I needed him down ASAP and for sure no wakes!)

He slept until 4am, fed... But woke as I put down and as I said, he's easy to settle but quickly wakes and jolts... I just did the swing (I've been exhausted last 3 days staying up with him trying to get him back to sleep) and it worked MIRACULOUSLY. Swing doesn't work much- we have about a 10% success rate haha

[FPT23]

In addition to all my other questions (so sorry but grateful)

In order to teach self soothing.. Can it be done swaddled? Not that I'm going to attempt now but out of curiousity. Can they be swaddled and self settle- doze off and learn?

[Haribo2012]

At 5am I just do whatever to get to decent time, rock him, cuddle let him sleep on me to get to decent wake up time. I just get comfy with my phone and read stuff.

I don't really know about earlier bed time at this age, I never got a BT routine going properly until a little bit older, we do bath, feed etc now but don't put him down to bed as such as too unsettled and would wake my 4yr old! I think it's quite young to worry about when the night feeds are. My DS is 7 weeks today and can't say that any 2 nights have been awake at same time, I just aim to be in bed by 10pm and we generally get a wake up In between 12-1.30am and another between 4-5.15am

Sleeping from 10pm until 4am is amazing at 4 weeks and if swing works for last bit then use it for now....I found the last few days I can get DS back down a bit easier as he's getting a bit older.

Sorry can't answer swaddling question as haven't done it but can't see why they can't learn to self settle really x

[FPT23]

Thanks for the response!!

I just want to know if it's normal to take so long to settle and get to sleep? On bad nights (like yesterday) he just would wake so quickly as soon as we put down. I was at it from 8pm-2am

I rock him and even nurse him but he jolts awake during, while in my arms and wakes himself. Of course as soon as I put down also. I don't remember doing this w DS1... I remember it taking awhile but not soooo long. He's swaddled well too. It's quite insane and blows my mind. Sometimes I leave him be a few minutes b/c it's super frustrating :-/   ...having another child, this is impossible to do. I've been lucky my husband is on a shift that he's here in the afternoon but as I stated before, slings don't seem to work either?

What to do?

[Haribo2012]

He's so young still I don't think he's really capable of settling without u and even with being rocked etc it can takes ages.

I've had a shocker of a couple of days....screaming most of the day, struggling to nap and general fussiness. I've rocked till my arms have fell off ha ha! 

Honestly Hun I don't know apart from just keep trying different things x

[FPT23]

I'm just so desperate for my toddler

The baby takes so long to nap. Should I just skip and try later???

I leave my 4yo alone for long periods. Wearing him will not work. I can't keep leaving my other son

[Haribo2012]

Can you go out at nap times take your older one to the park?

[FPT23]

Here this morning as we speak.

Baby woke in a great mood, put down very easily at a good A time for his morning nap... Woke after 5 minutes and I said to myself "I'm not going to do this today" ...stroller nap and park it is.

Over. It.

Yesterday he was AWFUL... No naps, woke every 5-15 mins... Longest nap was in the afternoon and just 1 hour... And you can imagine.. I was doing this circus from 8pm-midnight again as he was overly tired.. Would jolt awake too easily, or not settle well. Or wake after a few minutes

[Haribo2012]

If it helps mine days are pretty similar and baby is crying again as we speak.

How was park?

[FPT23]

Are they similar? How's your day? Honestly.

He used to nap and the morning became somewhat consistent but now all he does is cry and wake after 5 mins and won't stay down for any nap after that and then it's crazy. I'm telling you, we were off to what seemed a great start this morning. The little A time he had he was relaxed while I made my son a big breakfast! ..but after having the good A time and getting him down easy and he STILL woke after 5 mins..... Not today. Especially after the stress and tears I had yesterday. Such an awful messy day unfortunately...

Park was good. He stayed asleep and I left him in his car seat. He won't sleep in car rides. He hates them. But the stroller he's all for it. So I did that. Felt nice to spend time again like it was w my oldest. I miss him so much

[Haribo2012]

My days can be hit and miss, yesterday was brilliant, napped well whilst out and about and slept great last night....today however awful! 1 long nap then nothing, then screamed from 6pm until now x

[FPT23]

How old is your baby?

I'm successfully getting mine down to sleep... But wakes after 5-10 mins..... 1 long nap after a stroller ride.

What are your approaches to sleep with urs? Mine slept well last night ONCE he got to sleep. Which took about..... 6 hours. He would drift off, then wake... Sleep and wake over and over.

I don't understand this (
He's swaddled, white noise... Everything is set nicely for him and he is just waking after every 5 mins and I'm starting to think its the props!!!

[jessmum46]

Please continue to offer advice and support on FPT23's new thread here: 5-10min naps!!! Opinions? Advice? Encouragement?