2-1 transition Nap issues 9 mo

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi I'm back 

My 9 month old was on a decent routine for the last couple of weeks where EMW were eliminated thanks to another mod on this board. However, I'm sure we are going through the 2-1. At first it was fine. He would do either one long am and short pm or short am/long pm. We were up to 3.75 A with moderate success. In the last couple of days his naps got weird again and we were getting early evening wakings indicating OT. I tried pulling back the first A to do a UT am nap then do a longer pm nap. I ended up with wakings last night where he was restless and awake talking at times or just sitting up and looking around. We also got a shorter night and a EMW where he did not settle with nursing. I just can't seem to get the right routine for this transition. I either get OT wakings and some ok naps or early wakings and long NW.   

It's worth noting that he is teething the two front teeth which is making him fussier, clingier, and may be a factor in the strange naps. I only medicate with Motrin at night and Camila before naps.  But the other day he was crying so hard I gave him Tylenol which knocked him out and led to a strange night.

I could really use some help sorting this mess out. I know today he would not go down before 3.75 for the first A. I struggled for a half hour of him wanting to play instead. He napped for 1.5 hrs then I tried for a 3:15-3.5 A and he did a 3:40A where he only napped for 26 minutes! He woke up fussy but not crying.

My EASY is a mess but I know the night issues are contributed by the nap issues. This is what I have done in the last few days:

NW10:19, 2:46, 6:01

Total 11 hrs of sleep

WU 8:15 am
S 12:05-1:40 pm (A 3:50; self settle wide awake until this time; woke up at 33)
S 5:28-5:58 pm (A 3:48; held; resisting a little;OT)
BT 8:52 pm (A 2:53; fighting sleep all the way; was trying since 2:35A; OT)

NW 10:15 pm, 2:15 (fed), 5:48 (fed)

Total 10.5 hrs

WU 7:55 am
S 11:20- 12: 32 pm (A 3:25; self settle; tired and whiny; woke up at 35)

Rest of EASY messed up due to UT nap in the car after taking Tylenol (his A was only 2 hrs). Gave a Third nap to avoid a EMW or long NW due to too little A time.

BT was pushed to nearly 10

Yesterday's EASY: (attempted the UT am nap and failed lol)

NW 11:58 (fed bc he fed much earlier than bedtime), 3:34 (fed), 6:17-6:45 (wide awake after feed)

Total 9.75 (too much day sleep yesterday)

WU 8:10 am
S 11:19- 12:23 pm (A 3:09; self settle quickly)
S 4:02- 5:16 pm (A 3:39; let him pacify on breast bc of gums. Didn't drink though. Crying hysterically may have also been OT. Just got home. Woke up at 27.)
BT 8:38 pm (A 3:22; walked around; was playful and resisting sleep but acted cranky and tired at 2.75 A but tried since then)

NW 11:30, 1:35, 5:14, 6:45

[lauradj]

Hi there,

  A couple of quick questions for you; 1. Would you consider set naps? and 2. Would you be open to an earlier start to the day?

[JennVanessa1083]

Hello 

I would do set naps if it's the right schedule. I have tried set naps before and it it always caused lore issues.

I would definitely be open to an earlier start. Our typical wake up is generally between 7-7:30. This week it's been at 7:30-8 due to rough nights and strange nap days.

Tonight he was up every 2.5 hours. I did not feed at every NW. I know part of it is teeth but I also think it's naps too. Overall his sleep is around 12.5 hrs daily which seems low for his age.

[lauradj]

It may just be that he has low sleep needs.  We have discovered with our DS2 that he MUST have a morning CN or his afternoon nap is just awful and then he is a hot mess.  He is now a year old but since he was 9.5 months he had a CN from 9:30-10:15 and then his afternoon nap from 1-3/3:30.  I stick to this schedule without exception.  If we're out, I either wear him in the ergo or have  him in a comfy stroller to ensure his nap happens.  If you choose to try set naps, you may find it takes about a week for things to settle down but, as with any change, the consistency helps move things along.

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi!

So I would cut his first A to 2.5? Would that be possible bc we struggled with EMW throughout 8 months which is how we got to the first A of 3.75. The other day I tried for 3 hours and even 3:15 A and he just played and played until he was OT at 3.75 smh. However, today he went down at 3.5 and slept for about 45 minutes which is exactly what I wanted. Then I fed him and he passed out cold lol. He's actually still sleeping. Yesterday was strange too as we did this sort of day:

WU 7:42
E 8 am
A
E9:30 (solids)
A
S 11:26-12:56 pm  (3:43; wide awake; tried the crib twice and he would play around and try to stand. May have not been tired enough or already OT. Did not wake at all)
E 1 pm
A
E 2:30 (solids)
A
S 4:33-5pm (A 3:37; crying since 3 hrs bc wasn't tired despite my efforts to get him to nap then got OT)
E 5:05 pm
S 5:14-5:58 pm (After nursing)
A
E 6:30 (solids)
A
BF/BT 9:11 pm f (3:13; nursed; crying throughout entire bedtime routine including bath)

I agree that he seems to be low sleep needs which is why I am totally surprised by his increased napping. The naps are still broken but he will just fall asleep again which is what is causing late bedtime thus later wake up. . I'm assuming it's the top two teeth. The left one is just about to break through where the bottom is totally transparent under the gum. He didn't nap like this when his bottom two came that's for sure.

So what would be a good routine to start with given his A times, past EMW struggles and OT wakings after BT?

I know I'm throwing a lot out there but I do truly appreciate the help. Teething stinks poor baby!

[lauradj]

If he's teething and trying to stand, you're likely going to find his sleep is interrupted regardless of what you try to do just because he's in discomfort and developmental overload.
The ideal schedule really depends on when you hope him to wake and sleep long term.  For DH and I, we always wanted to make sure we had time in the evening for just the two of us.  We're also early risers so we agreed that a 7-7 clock was best for our family.  When DS2 came along I just slotted him into that schedule and he adapted.  He now actually wakes closer to 6:30am.  With that in mind, this is how DS2's day looks:
WU: 6:30am (6:15 on M & W's when I work)
S: 9:30am (day care puts him to sleep at 8:30 with the other two-nap babies, for 45-60 mins)
WU: 10:15am
S:1pm
WU: 3pm (I'll let him sleep until 3:30 if he seems really tired)
B: 6:45/7

That may work for you but feel free to tinker with it until you get the right timing for your family.  HTH!
 

[JennVanessa1083]

I agree. DH and I definitely love our evenings and my hope is to get him back to a 7-7 routine. So even though he's teething I still wake him up from naps and get him back to the usual routine?

He seems extra tired from the teething as I mentioned before so in lost in terms of A

Today I shortened the A times to 3.5 (before it was 3.75). He did a 45 minute first nap, ate then went back to sleep for another hour! Very peculiar for my DS. And I just put him down for his second nap which is very late due to the extended first nap and late wake up sigh.

I guess I just need help navigating the A times or maybe to bounce my ideas off.

Ideally I would want something like:

WU 7
A not sure
S 45 minutes
A not sure
S 1.5-2 hrs
A not sure
BT 7-7:30 pm

DS usually does a 11.5 night and can sometimes go 12 hour nights (including NW of course). He doesn't really take 2 hour monster naps but I assume with the right routine he may?

I definitely want to do the short A and long pm nap. It works better for us in the long run. My concern is shortening the first A too much where the EMW come back  and of course I want to figure out how not to get OT wakings.

It's true the teething is definitely wreaking havoc which is fine. I guess I don't want to lose the routine completely or get lost bc of teething. I guess I'm just wondering where to even start at this point with A times. I feel like I'm shooting on the dark.

[lauradj]

It's your call whether to wake him but I do continue on with the usual routine regardless of teeth.  If one of the boys has a cold or worse, I follow their lead.
Once my boys hit around 7/8 months, I became quite strict on their routine because a) I need to be able to plan out my day, and
b) it gives them a consistency they both like.  Honestly, I would have kept my LO awake after that first nap and just kept him busy until it was time for his next nap.  Take him for a swim, go for a walk, visit a friend, just get him up and out of the house.  He might sneak in a 5-10 min nap if you're in the car or on a walk and that's fine.   
The A times I'm suggesting are of different lengths, that's why I do set naps.  I know my LO cannot manage one nap yet but I need him to be awake long enough to be tired again for a 1pm nap.  His morning A time is between 2-3hr of A time, depending on whether he's at day care.  His second A time is about 2.5hr but I make sure he's quite busy.  His final A time is 2.5-3hrs.  Eventually you need to let go of the precise A time and find the best routine fit for your LO and your house.

[JennVanessa1083]

I would love it if I can get a set routine. I'm tired of adjusting A times but in the past set naps led to EW and increased OT at night ugh

I guess that's why I'm so confused as to how people get the great routines. My DS is supposedly a textbook baby but I'm starting to think he's spirited in the sleep department.

Anyways, everything is muddled bc of the teething. But I guess I can try to keep him up. Today I tried it after his am nap. It was about 1:10 after a 3:15ish A and now he's sleeping for over an hour.

I wonder if I'm letting him nap too much that it's leading to the NW and EW?

Ideally I would want something like:

WU 7:30 am
Nap 10:45-11:15 am
Nap 2:30-4:30 pm
BT 7:30/8 pm

Routine was shaping into this until teething made him all around more tired but waking more at night. It's a vicious cycle.