Longer and confusing NW

[JennVanessa1083]

Thanks Shiv!

I will try it out for a few more days since yesterday we were traveling around so EaSY was a bit off.

Congrats again!

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi!

I'm realizing he needs a tad more A in the day (since he actually got more of it two days this week and it resulted in better night sleep) meaning no long NW or EMW.  I'm wondering which EASY I should aim for:

WU 7:30
Nap 11:30-1:15/1:30 pm (4 hours)
Nap 4:45/5-5:30/5:45 pm (3.5)
BT 8:30/8:45 pm (3 hrs)

Or

WU 7:30 am
Nap 11:15-12:45 pm (3.75)
Nap 4:45-5:30 pm (4 hours)
BT 8:30 pm (3 hours)

The morning nap is much better at being longer than the pm nap but it's still broken from 33-42 minutes. I can try to stick with it for another day or so. Or should i explore the option of short am/long pm again?

WU 8
Nap 11:45-1:15 pm (3.75)
Nap 5-5:45 pm (3.75)
BT 8:45-9 pm (3-3.25)

Thank you!

[JennVanessa1083]

Update (sorry!): I tried around a 4 hr A in the am and DS woke up at 33 and 45 wired and fussy. I did manage to resettle. He did have a bad night with two long NW including a long EMW which is what led me to think more A time is needed or try the shorter am/ long pm route. I do know that him cutting teeth is plaguing sleep as well but I am medicating and my gut tells me routine is the main culprit for the NW and EMW.

[Shiv52]

I think what you're doing looks great. I'd personally stick at it and I think as he settles into it he'll nap better. The resettling at naps isn't a new thing over all?  You had been doing that anyways ?

[JennVanessa1083]

Yes when they are broken, if I can resettle I would. I was getting pretty good naps at 3.75 but then I was getting broken ones between 33-42 minutes. Tonight is already better with no OT wakings: he did the following:

WU ~ 8:20 am
S 12:20-1:43 pm (A ~ 4 hrs; not sure of wake up; woke up at 33 and 45)
S 5:23-6:19 pm (A 3:40; resisting nap)
BT 9:34 pm(A 3:15)

So I should stick with this correct?

[Shiv52]

I would. I would watch that wake up doesn't slip too much. I think with establishing this I'd keep wake up pretty much the same with maybe 10 mins either way.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ok makes sense I will be more strict on wake up. The long am nap should be ok and not encourage EMW correct?

[Shiv52]

No as far as I'm aware a nap encourages EMW if it is too soon as babies think it's part of their night sleep. If he's up for over 3.5 hours plus there is a huge separation from morning to nap time especially if you make sure to be on top of wake up. Otherwise all he's doing is compensating for night sleep by sleeping on and the vicious cycle will continue.

Hugs. You'll get there x

[JennVanessa1083]

Thanks for the encouragement!! Much appreciated. I'll keep at it for a few days and hopefully it will improve especially since he's cutting teeth 

[JennVanessa1083]

I'm having a hard time with this... For the last couple of days with the longer am nap ( which is still broken around 35 minutes) on a 4 hr A, he's resisting his pm nap even on a 4 hr A. I put him down and he plays and plays then cries when I try to lull him to sleep  Then he does fall asleep it ends up as what seems to be a UT nap (37-42 min) then he stays up later bc he's not tired enough or he's OT. My day will be too long with more than a 4 hour A with two naps right? NW haven't changed and he continues to wake up after 9 hours of sleep then dozes for another half to an hour.  if I get him down agin. Last night he had one that lasted an hour around 3am 

Not sure what to do. He's doing a 1:15-1:30 am nap then the pm is about 40 minutes. Should I plow on or is it clear that he's UT throughout the day then OT? Or just UT?

I feel a little lost with this transition 

[JennVanessa1083]

Today he did not go back to sleep after only sleeping 9 hours! He didn't have long wakings though. I did the same routine yesterday:

WU 8
S 12-130 (A 4 hrs)
S 5:30-6:10 (A 4; resisted nap again)
BT 9:25 (A 3.25)

NW 1 am, around 4 am; up at 7 am 

[zissi]

hi jenn, sorry to hear you are still struggling. how old is he again? the length of his morning nap indicates to me UT, so I would do a brave jump to 4.5 hrs for a few days and see how it goes. he may wake up OT the first few days but hopefully you are able to resettle the nap. if you can, do then a 20 mins CN to theism over to BT or otherwise early BT. as you know we struggled with those horrible NW's for a long time and for the last few days they haven't happened. we moved to 1 nap at 10 months, she has now an A time of 5.5hrs in the morning and the second just under 5hrs. seems to work. mind you I still have to cap that nap. she would nap for 2.5 hrs but I cap at 1.45hr and with that routine the NW's have disappeared. you may have a LSN baby too. who knows. I think at this stage its worse a try, what do you think?

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi Zissi!!

I am so happy to hear that you haven't had NW!! That gives me hope since its been MONTHS since DS has not had one NW; we averaging 3 every 3 hours or so smh. My only concern is him getting so OT especially since he didn't get great sleep last night. He popped up this morning like a spring chicken lol I'm tired!

I Tried a 4.25 A to see if I would get a better nap. He was either OT or UT bc he was just hyper and not settling. Then I lulled him to sleep at almost 4.5 A. He woke up at 30 minutes and I resettled but he was fighting it and is sleeping but very fidgety. Maybe it's too much A?
 I'm wondering if he has chronic OT from the NW plus the teething. He is a tricky one! UT and OT seem to affect him easily so striking the perfect balance has been challenging!

Then I'm wondering would capping the first nap help with pm nap resistance. So maybe 35-40 min am nap and then a long pm nap. Only thing is figuring out all new A times to make that happen sigh.

I may just start all over with a different approach since things seem to be getting messier. So maybe something like this:

WU 7:30
S 11-11:45 am (3.5) or cut it shorter to 30 min
S 3:30- 5 pm (3.75)? Or maybe push to 4 hrs?
BT 8:30 pm (3.5A)

He is average to low sleep needs. For a good rest he gets 13hrs in a 24 hr period with an 11hr night.

Please tell me if I'm just expecting too much too soon! He's cutting teeth and going through developmental stuff so I know it affects sleep too.

I appreciate everything ladies!

[trimbler]

(((Hugs))) the 2-1 is a tricky one, certainly! Especially with all that teething and development going on too. You could certainly try a routine with a short am nap and long pm, that worked well for us, but ours transitioned much later. The other thing you could do would be to cap that second nap more. As zissi says, you could just do a big push in that first A, but I'm inclined to agree with you that there's probably some OT going on there, especially with the short nights. A short morning nap can help with short nights, in that they can potentially get to their afternoon nap having caught up with enough of the OT not to be crazy, but still tired enough to take a nice long nap, which could leave them refreshed enough to have a long A to BT and then a nice night. That's the ideal - but as you say, it can take a while to work out appropriate A times... We can put our heads together on that of course, if you want to try it, really up to you though to decide which way seems best to you

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you Timbler!

Yes I would like to try the short am/long pm route. I think with everything going on with the short nights and the UT/OT loop and the pm nap resistance it seems best.

I would love some help on how to go about it with the hopes of making things better 

I would love to jump in tomorrow.

Thank you!