How can I break 14 month old EW cycle ??

[~Jen~]

We need some help with DD2 - our mornings are getting earlier and earlier.  She seems to be on the LSN side of things and very spiritied.  She handles her OT very well which makes things a bit more tricky to figure out what she needs. She went to 1 nap by 10/11 months old.  AFter going to 1 nap, her wake ups were steady around 6/6:30 but lately we are anywhere from 5/5:30.  She fusses a bit when she wakes but not crying.  There is no resettling her - when she is up, she is up. She STTN without trouble.  Typcial day is:

5:30 WU
11:30 - 1:30/1:45 Nap
7/7:30 Asleep

How can I break EW cycle?  Do I just push her to a late BT for a few days to reset clock? Push nap later?  DH disagrees and thinks she needs super early BT because she is OT.  I'm not sure and anyway with my older ones EBT is not very feasible and I'd be terrified she would be waking at 4am to start day. 

Any advice woudl be so appreciated - she wakes the whole house every day! 

[creations]

Hi
I'd go for a later nap.  You might not even need to move BT.  If you go for nap at 12pm until 1.45/2.00pm it should help to discourage the early wake up.  I would try the usual 7pm BT and if there is refusal go for your other regular 7.30pm BT and see how she settles into it for a week or so.  If there is a lot of BT resistance then move BT 15 mins later 7.45pm - but hold on to the 'set' times for a good time to see how they pan out, one or two days is not going to show you the full effect at that this age really.

One thing to keep in mind as you begin to move the nap time, if she wakes later in the morning you may need to shift the nap another 15 mins to keep that first A time long enough for her not to begin EW again.

Looking ahead, if you need to move nap later for instance, you could probably go as late as 12.30 - 2.30pm (still a 2hr nap) and BT at 7.45/8pm (still 5hr+ A time before bed).  Another option is to begin to cap the nap at 1hr 30 rather than 2hrs, if BT becomes very hard I would consider this.

[~Jen~]

Thanks so much! Really helpful to get your advice. Today she had a shorter nap only 1hr 25. So her day was;

5:30 wake
11:40-1:05
6:45 asleep

When she short naps she always wakes 1hr25 and I never know if OT or UT... She seemed very tired all day so I put her down early at 6:30.  I will push her nap to 12 tomorrow and hold BT at 7. Do you think I should wake her by 2pm at latest?   I let her sleep almost 2.5hrs for nap yesterday and she did a 10hr night.  Thanks again!

[~Jen~]

She woke at 4:50am. more upset today but not full on crying until 6 and then I fed her. Do you think I should still go for 12 nap today? Her day will be really long with a 7pm BT, no?  This is where I get confused with EW - hold the later BT and risk OT from long day or go earlier to avoid the OT but then risk reinforcing earlier wake ups....

[creations]

I would go for the nap at 12 as planned, and keep your expectations low, plan for the 'worst' yk? I mean be prepared to help resettle the nap if needed and be prepared for a tricky night, OT certainly can happen when you change the routine but it's only going to be a few days really and then she'll likely settle down again.  Overall she'll end up better rested.

I'd be tempted today to let her do longer than 2hr nap if she wants it, that makes up for the very early start to the day, so she should still make a 7pm BT.  After that it'll be a case of trial and error really. She may do really well on a 2hr nap, 11hr night.  Or she might be unable to get longer than a 10 hr night in which case she may well need a longer, 2.5hr nap.  If it does turn out she isn't going to give you more than a 10hr night then some decisions need to be made about when you want that 10 hrs to be, later BT or earlyish WU?  it's not something you have to decide right now though, just saying there's a chance.
She moved to one nap even earlier than my DS, his longer nights after the transition to one nap didn't last very long either.

[~Jen~]

Hi! Just a quick update with our progress.  We've been doing 12 nap and 7 BT.  She is doing well and I think we must be heading in the right direction.  This has been her last 2 days:

Yesterday:
4:50 Wake & 6 Start day
12-2:20 Nap (she actually made it relatively easily but passed out as soon as hit pillow...she cried for a bit at 1:50 and fell back asleep)
7:25 Asleep

Today:
5:55 Wake 
12:15 -2:05 Nap
7:20 Asleep

I plan to stick with this for the week and see where we are by the end.  I have a feeling like you said in your post that I will need to push her nap another 15 mins later once wake ups (hopefully) get to at least 6am or even later.  I assume I then also push BT another 15mins later as well?  Thanks again for your help!

[creations]

Ooh - good start

I assume I then also push BT another 15mins later as well?

Just have a quick re-read of my first post. BT doesn't always have to move later, judge by mood and behaviour over the coming days and tweak accordingly but don't change daily, we are looking at *set* times even though you are moving and tweaking.

Looking forward to another great update in a few days   Hope it continues to go well.

Just a hunch but it could be 1hr 25 naps are UT for her now and the 1hr 50 mid nap wake up scream was OT but not so OT that she couldn't get back to sleep (not so much OT to be worried about though).

[~Jen~]

I think you are right on the UT and OT naps. She woke at 5:20 today so bang on 10hr night. A bit of OT creeping in?  I haven't been going to her until 6am and then I feed her in dark room before "start the day".  It will be interesting to see how she does with her nap today. I will keep holding at 12 and 7 as best we can. I'm sure she will do well with set naps once we get there..   

[creations]

good luck

[~Jen~]

I can't believe how little sleep she is getting! Last night she fell asleep at 8pm and she woke up to start day today at 5:15am! This is crazy....  My 7 year old gets more sleep than she does! Her naps are never longer than 1hr50mins ..so that is OT for her. I want to stick with set naps but this feels crazy. Does this get worse before better? 

[creations]

Oh dear that night was short.

how come she went to sleep at 8pm? Was it because she refused or did something come up to prevent BT being at 7pm?  I wonder if she slept a shorter night due to being OT??

[michaeljacknnugg]

My big guy was like this, nightmare!

In the end I took an average of all his sleep over a couple of weeks to see how much he got on average, and sort of adjusted from there.

Nap got later and later but I didn't wake him, generally, and stuck to roughly the same bedtime.

Hugs, this is such a tricky phase!

[~Jen~]

So tricky... its been a few months now though so I'm just hoping she settles down soon!?!

The 8pm bedtime was a tough one.  I put her down at 7pm normal BT and she was just playing around in her cot for a while and then she started fussing on and off.  I was putting the others down so I just left her for a bit longer and then I finally went in.  She had a very dirty nappy and her bum was super red and sore.  I needed to change her clothes completely and by the time I put her back down, she took some time to settle down and then finally asleep at 8.
I thought the next day she would be a mess but she ended up making it until 12 naptime.  And that was with a swimming lesson as well!  She dosed for 2 mins in car home but then went straight to sleep at 12 and slept for nearly 3 hrs that afternoon!  I couldn't believe it. 

Then last night she was alseep at 7:20 and she woke at 4:25am. She did another poo so I had to get her up and change her and then gave her some Calpol to see if that would help her settle.  She finally went back at 5:40 for about 45mins.  So looking on the bright side - at least I finally got a later wake up. I can't remember the last time she started her day at 6:30!

Not sure where to go with this so I'm just sticking with 12 and 7 for another week?

[creations]

Goodness, if it's not teething wrecking sleep its poo!!!!

Yes I'd continue with the 12 and 7 for another week, partly because I don't know what else to suggest other than just stick it out.

At least after that really short night she got a great nap though!  So probably sorted herself out with a 12hr sleep over 24hrs despite the short night.  That's kind of what to hope for, not the short night but that she regulates her own sleep by having the set nap and BT.

[~Jen~]

Yes I agree completely. I've given up having any expectations for her to sleep later in the morning. I just hope she is ok with such little sleep at night. I will start thinking about it in a 24hr period - she does seem to regulate herself in some crazy way. The set times will help my sanity in the meantime.
Thanks again for your help!