Author Topic: Chronic EW  (Read 2869 times)

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Offline *foxy*

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Chronic EW
« on: March 20, 2016, 06:09:56 am »
Hi

Our 22mo ds wakes every morning around 5.15 am. It's been going on for many many months.

Routine:
WU 5.15
Nap 12.30-2/2.30
BT 7 (usually asleep by 7.15)

Is his day too long? Or nap too long? We have a 5yr old dd so the school run is at 3pm. She's up before 6 every morning too. We're just tired and we're tired of being tired.
DS starts off on his bed but by 10.30/11pm hes in our bed and wakes at least twice during the night. We stay with him until he's asleep.

Do we need to work on independent sleep? Neither of our children are very good at sleeping on their own or should I say they prefer not to!
Any help much appreciated.TIA


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 12:41:52 pm »
Hey Hun, nice to 'see' you on here again but sorry things are still rough in the sleep department.

I do think independent sleep is probably the way to change things.  Routine to me looks fine (well not the WU time!  But nap time and length and bedtime is I think ok for this age, though it's a long day with that early start).

I imagine there is a degree of chronic OT here which is not helping from constant broken sleep.  But the main issue with independent sleep is that by the time LO wakes at 5.15 after 10 hours sleep the drive to go back isn't so strong, and with him needing you to settle I just think at this age having your presence at that time will be a drive to stay awake. 

If it were me, now would be the time I'd be gritting my teeth and getting on with getting him to sleep alone.  Probably using gradual withdrawal and reinforcing night time using a gro clock or similar. Is it something you are ready for?  Happy to help with a plan if so x

Offline Shiv52

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 12:45:08 pm »
Agree with Katherine. I think tackling independent sleep is the way to go.

How does he go to sleep for naps?





Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 18:08:27 pm »
Thank you Katherine and Shiv. Totally ready for more independent sleep. DD was never a good sleeper and still wakes now so we've had our fair share of night time waking! We have a go clock so I'm happy to use that too.

For naps we stay with him until he's asleep and sometimes I'm so tired that I nap with him!

His room is tiny so it'll be very quick until we're outside his room. He's in a single bed with a cot side which we don't usually put up until he's asleep.  I can't imagine he'll like having that up whilst we're tackling independent sleep but be might try to get out of bed. What do you think is best - put it up when he goes to bed or keep it down but we might have to keep putting him back to bed?

Oh and do we need a catch up day or anything to help with the chronic OT? Or will that just complicate things?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 18:56:59 pm by *foxy* »


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 13:14:42 pm »
I'd put the side up if it were me - unless currently you are cuddling or something else that would be hard with it there?  May need to go more gradual if so, but I would be aiming to get the side up in that case as soon as you can. Him getting out will only make it harder I think...

I wouldn't bother with a catch up, I think independent sleep will be the thing that helps the tiredness the most x

Offline Shiv52

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 11:44:26 am »
My gut would be to put it up or likely it'll turn into a battle of return to bed and you'll end up putting it up anyways! I'd have it up and be beside and reassure. I imagine it'll be calmer that way.






Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2016, 21:16:10 pm »
Thank you so much to both of you for your replies - it's very much appreciated. Haven't got very far with independent sleep for a couple of reasons. Being away over Easter and he's had a very bad cough and cold which has meant he's been clingy. Bonus with the clocks going forward in that he's waking around 6.30-6.45 without us having to do anything! Trying to keep his daytime sleep down as I'm sure him napping too long affects his night time sleep (obviously) Also making sure he's not going to bed too early as I'm keen to keep WU around 6.30 if possible.
Next thing is to tackle independent sleep.......


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2016, 06:41:59 am »
Let us know when you are ready, will be here to cheer you along x

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2016, 19:31:36 pm »
How's he getting on?  Recovering I hope?

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2016, 19:16:32 pm »
Yes much better thanks. Need to make a start now really........


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 05:42:47 am »
When you're ready :) no time like the present though!

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2016, 18:42:57 pm »
Too true! He's only napped for 30 mins for the last 3 days so bt has been tricky! Hoping to have a quieter day tomorrow so that he can catch up a bit. We had one great night  (Tues) when he only woke once and OH resettled in his own bed and he stayed there until 6.30am! :o
Total fluke though as last night was rubbish :(


*Kate*

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2016, 05:39:03 am »
Hi. He's still waking very very early. Today it was 4.50! We're knackered.
His current routine is
WU 5-5.30
Nap 12-2 (ish) it's usually 1.5-2 hours.
BT 7 (we bring it forward if needed)

He's at the CM twice a week and usually naps 1.30-3
The in laws have him once a week and mess his nap up every time. He had 20 mins all day the last time they had him despite me asking that they make sure they give him a good nap as it keeps happening and only makes things worse but that's a separate issue atm!

Can you help? We're still staying with him until he's asleep. He's wide awake at 5 and ready to get up but we try not to until 6


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2016, 18:35:23 pm »
Did you get anywhere with the cot side?  I think independent sleep is the way forward if you want to get out of this.  I just don't think there's any reliable routine advice I could give at this stage that would 'fix' things without knowing he was able to settle alone.  Are you feeling ready for that at the moment?

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2016, 19:21:25 pm »
I don't think we have a choice tbh. Haven't got anywhere with the cot side - he freaks out when it's up at BT. OH holds his hand until he's asleep - we can try stopping that first then slowly moving away? His room is tiny so it'd be very quick until he is outside his room


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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2016, 11:37:04 am »
My feeling is probably you are going to have to work through that 'freaking out' stage, being there for him and reassuring but being prepared for some major upset.  There isn't really a way to do it without I don't think at this age  :-\ - even the 'no cry' author says the same for toddlers.  I would as step one get that cot side up, with DH holding his hand.  I'd then try introducing a lovey (blankie-type), so DH holds his hand in the lovey so hopefully transferring some of that security feel to the lovey instead of the hand.  And then go for something like sitting beside cot but no touch, halfway to door, in doorway, outside doorway.  The key is to keep moving forwards - and expect a bit of upset with each new step.  He and you can do this :D And you all deserve a better sleep!

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2016, 19:13:17 pm »
Thanks Katherine. Might as well start straight away! Sounds like a good plan. Better sleep would make a big difference to all of us!


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Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2016, 18:34:39 pm »
How are you Kate?  Thinking of you all xx

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2016, 18:56:07 pm »
Hi. Thank you  :)  Well I was planning to start straight away but ds had an unsettled 20 min nap at the childminders on monday so was beside himself at BT. Then was up at 4.30 on Tuesday. Didn't manage a great catch up nap on Tuesday as I was at an interview so he was with mum. I was a wreck by BT - both kids were sobbing as my mum had to go back home (she lives 2.5 hrs away) OH was back late and I just felt sick. DS was up at 4.50 today and managed a 1.5 hour nap with the CM. He's with my in laws tomorrow who seem to only get a 20 min nap during the day despite me asking them to stick to our routine. So ds will be up at 4.30 again on Friday probably. I never get any quality time with him as it's usually spent trying to catch him up. We can't go to groups as he's so badly behaved due to being exhausted.

Seeing the paediatrician on Saturday. I might ask to try infant gaviscon again. DS wakes a lot upset and will only settle with a drink of water. I'm wondering if some nights he's getting a bit of reflux again. I don't know :(  I'm on board with getting him to independently sleep but I'm hanging on by my fingernails atm.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 19:01:26 pm by *foxy* »


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2016, 20:31:40 pm »
(((Hugs))), wish I could wave a magic wand and get you all a break :(

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2016, 04:11:38 am »
He is waking every morning at 4.20 am. I'm so exhausted that I've had to take time off work. It's like his body clock is set to get up at that time now. He wants water all night long too. He's sleeping for 9 hours at night - and that's not even all the way through.

Do we keep him up later? Cut his nap? Is independent sleep the only solution?  - We are starting that tonight
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 04:28:32 am by *foxy* »


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2016, 07:13:56 am »
Oh Kate :'( you must be so so tired.  I'm sorry it's been so tough. With the water can you leave a non-spill cup where he can get it himself?  I assume he is pain-free from the reflux point of view now?  No ongoing discomfort making it hard for him to sleep?

If the discomfort has gone I do think tackling independent sleep is the way to go. It's just impossible to tell what else is wrong - routine etc - without those good sleep habits.  Can your health visitor offer you some support with it, a hand to hold, any other advice?  Some support for you? 

Offline Haribo2012

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2016, 07:34:47 am »
Hi there, I agree with Katherine that if he's pain free then the self settling is going to be the thing that helps him.

We had a phase of 4.30 wake ups at this age but DS1 was an IS so it was a case of return to bed and keep doing that until he got out the habit. We did end up sleeping on a mattress on his floor on the odd occasion and introducing the sun clock at that time to get him to understand we stay in bed.

I've never tried but have you tried wake to sleep?
Zoe


Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2016, 21:22:18 pm »
Hi

Thank you for your replies. We saw the paediatrician on Saturday who thinks he might be constipated. We're keeping a poo diary (the joys!) to see if there's a pattern at all. If it looks like it could be constipation then we can try Movicol. I'm letting him have a drink at night but once he's had some I'm then ignoring him and he seems to go off ok. Sometimes he keeps asking for more and more drink but I'm not sure he actually needs it. Then that causes him to wake up wet as his nappy over flows! Also reducing his BT milk drink to see if that helps at all. And then we're encouraging more fluids during the day.

He self settles at the CM's who he goes to twice a week so he can do it. We will gradually reduce our presence during sleep time. We can definitely try a non spill cup. Haven't tried W2S Zoe - I'm too scared to!


*Kate*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2016, 13:49:19 pm »
I'm wondering if some nights he's getting a bit of reflux again. I don't know
Hi there, jumping in if you don't mind.
To me this is worth following up. You had a gut feeling there and often those are the ones we need to follow. I know you took him to your peadi and that you are keeping a poo diary but does constipation lead to crying wake ups with the need to drink? I'm not sure.  having experienced a reflux flare up or two with my own DS and having to put my foot down with the doc and really push for meds (which resolved the reflux symptoms almost immediately) I do feel that a gut feeling is not to be ignored. Took me a while to get meds but so glad I did, he was not on them for very long and the flare up passed and he came back off again. Happened a few times now.

I would look for that possible reflux to be fully controlled and then go for the sleep training full on. I mean *full on*.  I would not try for catch up sleeps or routine tweeks, I would set a routine and stick to it regardless of how much he slept or didn't and all out sleep train during those days/nights between going to his grandparents.  You can likely have it *done* in that time, you have said yourself it will not take long as his room is small...and yet sleep training has been postponed and delayed for various reasons. I would imagine you feel way too exhausted to even think about it but the exhaustion is going to pass, and will pass sooner if you go ahead with the sleep training sooner rather than later.

lots of hugs xx


Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2016, 13:59:52 pm »
How are you doing?  Any progress?

Offline *foxy*

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2016, 19:26:30 pm »
Hi.

Thank you for all the advice :)

Well he's a bit variable but we're getting more nights where he's sleeping from BT to around 4.30. The last 3 days he's kind of gone back to sleep until 5.30. He's not completely up for the day at 4.30 is what I'm trying to say! OH is still staying in his room but not holding his hand anymore. The most WU's we're getting is 2


*Kate*

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Chronic EW
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2016, 06:20:52 am »
That's a lot of positives :D pleased for you!  Keep taking steps forward, can DH move a little away from the cot?  Well done x