Author Topic: 5.30am wake up  (Read 6356 times)

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Offline H7

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5.30am wake up
« on: March 20, 2016, 09:31:56 am »
My LO is 5.5 months and was sleeping 7 til 7 but a few weeks ago started waking between 5.15-5.45 and despite trying various tweaks I can't seem to get her back to a 7am wake up. Last night she also woke at 3.30am chatting until 4.15.

I've tried putting her to bed as late as 7.30 and as early as 6 but she still wakes at the same time. She usually has 3 naps but tried a few days of 2 naps and have the same result. She usually naps 3hr to 3hr 45 but this week due to being out 3 days in a row she had 4 days of 2hr 30 naps and still woke at the same time.

When she wakes at 5.30 she's chatty and will then suck her thumb and appear to doze off again then wake a few mins later and chat etc and that goes on til 6.45/7 when we go and get her up for the day. We had tried going in around 5.45/6 and saying sleepy time etc but found it didn't make a difference and that rather than being chatty happy and dozing she would get a little more shouty or start to cry as we had been in and then left again.

Once up at 7 I have then been putting her back down for 9 (she falls asleep within a min or 2) and she sleeps then for about 1hr 30. I have tried stretching this time out to 9.15 and even 9.30 one day but that resulted in a much shorter nap and her waking crying. This morning I put her down at 9.05 and she was asleep by 9.08. Will see how long she lasts.

Do you think I should go in and get her up at 5.30 and start our day then? That's really not something I want to do tho especially given that she's just happily chatting and have little dozing/resting times.

So like I say I really feel like I've tried all the tweaks I can think of yet still it's 5.30 every morning that the chatting begins. She has blackout blinds so don't think it's light,  thermostat is in her room so temperature is constant so don't think it's that either. And she's not waking hungry either.

A rough idea of our last few days

Sat
5.30 -6.45 - chat/doze in cot
6.45 - up
7am - feed
9.45 - nap (later as we were at swimming)
11 am wake
13.00 - nap
13.25 - wake (short as we were in the car)
3.45 - nap (tried earlier due to previous short nap and she was having none of it)
5pm - wake
7pm - bed (took her 20 min to fall asleep where as usually falls asleep much quicker)

Fri
5.45 - 7 - chat/doze
7 - up
7.15 - feed
9 - nap
10.45 wake
13.15 - nap
15.15 - wake
6.45 - bed (was aiming for 6.15 but had a mass poo explosion and hubby coming home in middle.of bedtime routine so it got pushed quite late)

Thurs

5.30 - 7 - chat/doze
7 - up
7.15 - feed
8.50 - nap (earlier as she was so grizzly and tired I just didn't feel I could push it out to 9)
10.20 - wake
12.15 - nap (earlier than expected as out in pushchair)
13.00 - wake (doesn't seem to sleep.longer than 45 min in pushchair)
14.20 - nap (wasn't expecting her to fall asleep we were walking home from friend sin pushchair)
14.45 - wake (got home and steps up to house so no way of getting her in without waking her)
17.00 - nap
17.30 - wake
19.00 - bed

So as you can see after the morning nap there is no real consistency in our day. There is if we stay in but we are out most afternoons. I tried staying in all week the week before last to see if I could try and make adjustments that way but even with a more consistent week nap time and length wise it didn't make a difference.

She's currently on 2.15 to 2.30 awake time. Feeds at roughly 7.15, 11, 3 and just before bed so anything from 6-6.45.

Sorry it's such a long post just wanted to set everything out. Any thoughts on any additional tweaks I could make would be most welcome.

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2016, 15:09:32 pm »
Hi there, no need to apologise for the post length, it's really useful to see it all laid out like that :)

It is a bit hard to spot patterns when you're out and about in the afternoons, but IMO it's better for our sanity not to feel bound by our LOs' naps :P I did wonder whether she might need a bit more A time overall, which you might be able to achieve by offering a short third nap so that she can have a little more A time afterwards - most LOs need to be able to manage 3h A times before dropping to two naps, then they end up with 3x3h = 9h overall A. If you're on two naps but only 2.5h A times (for example), you only get 7.5h A overall, which is likely not quite enough, or else an extra long A to BT, which can then result in OT, which can in turn result in EWs.

It's actually pretty common for LOs this age to chat early in the morning, it can also be developmental, but probably worth looking at the routine as things do change so quickly at this age. Also worth considering whether anything else happens at 5:30am, eg a boiler turning on, someone getting up to leave for work, etc?



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2016, 16:07:40 pm »
No boiler or anyone leaving for work. Had wondered re developmental as currently in a leap according to wonder weeks app.

Today's gone like this

5.45 -7 chat/doze
7 - awake
9.05 - nap
10.35 - awake
1pm - nap
2.30 - awake

Going to try for a nap again before 5 and wake her by 5.30 and aim for 7pm bed.

Would that be okay do you reckon?

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2016, 19:48:50 pm »
Hi there, sorry couldn't get on again until now - too late to answer your question, so let me know how it went :)



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 05:12:41 am »
Yesterday looked like this...

5.45 -7 chat/doze
7 - out of cot
9.05 - nap
10.35 - awake
1pm - nap
2.30 - awake
5pm - nap
5.30pm - wake
7.05pm - in bed
7.20pm - asleep

3.30 - 4am - chatting
5am - chatting

So even earlier today than on previous days! Stayed in yesterday as well to try and get the day sorted but just don't know what else I can do. No way she would have stayed awake from 2.30 til 6 for bed time then or maybe she would have done?

Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 15:18:25 pm »
Today has been

5am - 6.30 chatting/doze
6.30-7.30 - sleep
7.30 - up
10am - nap
11.30 - wake
2pm - nap
3pm - wake

So only 2hr 30 nap time but I don't think I'll be able to fit another nap in as it would mean a 5.30 start of nap time which just seems too late or do you think that would be ok?

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2016, 02:18:57 am »
So only 2hr 30 nap time but I don't think I'll be able to fit another nap in as it would mean a 5.30 start of nap time which just seems too late or do you think that would be ok?
I likely would have done a short nap from 530-6 and gone for BT around 745/8. Does she fall asleep easily in the stroller or car? Sometimes that can be a good way to get in a third nap as sometimes LOs will fall asleep sooner in a car or stroller than they would in a crib.

When the nap ended at 230, I also would have done a CN at 5 like you did. I do think the chatting is most likely developmental. Both of my LOs had periods of chatting at night and early in the morning at that age and it went away on its own (I tweaked and tweaked with LO1 and nothing helped, with LO2 I just let things be).
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2016, 05:18:07 am »
Last night was worst yet ...

Chatting at 11, 1, 2.30, 3.30 and now at 5 😴😴

I have tweaked and tweaked and nothing seems to be working ... its been going on almost a month now.... maybe it is just developmental but if it is how long do you think it will last?

I know she's not waking crying but I'm still awake each time she chats in the night and sometimes it can last an hr and then she's awake for the day at 5.

Maybe I should try the later catnip and late bedtime or maybe I should stop tweaking and accept that what will be will be but after her sleeping 7 til 7 it's really beginning to get to me!

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 20:42:16 pm »
(((Hugs))) I know what you mean, an EW is an EW whether happy or crying, you're still awake :-* Agree it's really common at this age, but that doesn't mean to say we can't have a think about what tweaks might work... I can't help wondering whether she needs an increase in A? But not sure how well she'd manage that on a day when she wakes so early. But perhaps wait until a day where she wakes early chatting and then falls back to sleep again (as she did the other day) and then probably leave the first A at 2.5h but push the second A a little - just seeing that 2.5h second A may have got her a UT second nap that day, because she probably started the day more refreshed, wdyt? I suspect that things will get a little easier once she's down to two naps, not that she's necessarily ready just yet, but starting to stretch those As when she's a bit more refreshed might be a step in the right direction... How was the rest of the day, before that exhausting night?



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 06:08:20 am »
Still having the EW it's been going on for about 6 weeks now. Have tried every possible tweak I can think of but still she wakes with a 5 in the time. In fact the only time she hasn't is when we went to the coast for the weekend and stayed in a caravan and there was a massive storm. My husband and I barely slept a wink but she slept 12 hrs from 7.30 to 7.30!

Her day for the last 3 days has looked like this

5.20 - 7 - on off chatting and sleep
7 - wake up
7.15 bottle
8.15 solids
9.30 nap
10.45 wake
11.15 bottle
12.30 solids (if doing lunch only on 2 meals a day so doing either a 12.30 solids or a 4.30 solids)
1.30/1.45 - nap
3/3.30 - wake
3.15/3.45 - bottle
4.30/5 - solids
6.15 - bottle
6.30 - bed

So she's been down to 2 naps the last 3 days. Her morning nap seems to only be 1hr 15 at the moment but then on Sunday she did 1hr 45 for morning nap with the exact same start to the day and she's also done a few 1hr 30s recently too with that awake time in the morning and one day last week with the same morning pattern she only did 30 min morning nap.

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 18:24:22 pm »
Hi there, just wondered how those early starts really are - would you say it's quite variable how much she's awake and chatting, or dozing, or just lying quietly? Or is she basically awake from 5:30am or so? I'm wondering about just pushing that first A a bit, perhaps gently pushing the whole day later (but keeping subsequent A times the same, only stretch the first one a little at a time), in the hope of kind of shifting her day. Depending on what those early WUs are like, she may just be getting enough sleep as it is, so shifted her day may be all she needs? How does she seem during the day? Do you feel she's getting enough sleep overall, by her general behaviour?



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2016, 06:12:44 am »
Not really sure what the combination is between sleep and chatter as it's been going on so long now I'm managing to drift back off in between the chatting. But I'd say there's more quiet time than there is chatting.

She's general 95% or more of the time a really happy baby during the day so no grouchy grizzly over tired baby signs really. Her .oat grizzly time of the day is from around 5/5.30 until bed time but the last few days since doing 2 naps only randomly she seems less grouchy at that time.

Yesterday I actually put her down for her nap morning 10 minutes earlier (so at 9.20) as she just looked so tired and I ended up waking her up after 2 hours 10 minutes as felt that was long enough. She then had 1hr 15 afternoon nap and this morning she didn't wake til 6.30. There was a brief chatty but literally a minute tops at 5.45 then back to sleep for another cycle.

Now I'm totally confuzzled!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 06:20:55 am by H7 »

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2016, 18:41:06 pm »
They do like to keep us guessing, don't they? Sounds to me like she might have done a bit of catching up yesterday with that long morning nap? Let's see how things go over the next few days? :-*



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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2016, 19:18:33 pm »
Mmm yeah she had another 2hr plus morning nap again today too. Be interesting to see how tonight goes.

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2016, 02:33:06 am »
I have no explanation as to why it helped (and it goes against what most sleep experts say) but a longer morning nap often helped improve my DS's early mornings.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2016, 05:32:51 am »
It was a one off.

Thursday she had 4hrs day time sleep in bed for 7.15 and woke at 5.45. Yesterday she had 2hr 30 day time sleep in bed for 7.30 and woke at 6 (so nice to not see a 5 on the clock tho even if only just)

It really doesn't seem to make a difference on nap length or bed time or  anything really.

I'm tempted to try wake to sleep. For a week or more she was basically waking at 5.50 pretty much bang on give or take a minute or two so as much as I will hate my alarm going off at 4.50 I'm tempted to give it a whirl. Just worried that I will wake her completely and not just stir her which would really not be ideal!!

Anyone know of any successes at wake to sleep?


Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2016, 17:04:14 pm »
You could try that, was never brave enough to do it myself but I know others have, I think it tends to work better earlier on in the night but you never know... Thing is, 10.5h could be UT (as I guess it was when she'd had 4h daytime sleep) or OT (might have been after 2.5h daytime sleep). Have you tried pushing the first A time at all? How's her routine been the last few days?



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2016, 06:44:20 am »
I tried yesterday for the first time. Just pushed it  y 10 minutes but it led to a 45 minute nap which she woke from grizzly and it threw the day out nap wise etc she had 2 45 min naps and one 20 min one went to bed at 7 and still woke at 5.50 this morning.

Will try a 9.40 nap time again tho today as know it takes a few days to see a change if there's going to be one.

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 19:01:20 pm »
Yeah ok some LOs (mine included) seem to be more sensitive to OT than others, in that they'll short nap - any chance of resettling if that happens again? Don't be afraid of EBT if you get short naps - it's counterintuitive I know, but EBT can help prevent OT at BT, which is the cause of many EWs. So we often find that EBT can actually lead to a LO sleeping a little later in the morning, or at least, doing a longer night, so that even if they still wake early, they're more refreshed and may manage a longer A than usual off the back of the better night.



Offline lily_layne

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2016, 02:58:44 am »
So we often find that EBT can actually lead to a LO sleeping a little later in the morning
This is definitely true for both of my LOs.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2016, 10:07:30 am »
Have done early bed times and don't mind putting her to bed at 6 if that's how naps work out. If I put her to bed at 6 she wakes at 5.50 or if I put her to bed at 8 she wakes at 5.50.

I've tried moving her first nap time later over the last few days and it still doesn't shift the wake up time.

Hubby and I are now convinced its the birds in the morning. They are so loud and the early waking started around the time of the spring dawn chorus starting. MiL said that her mum used to say that Feb 14th was the birds wedding day as after that date they start getting louder and it ties in timing wise. A few times we've woken before her and just as the birds get really loud she wakes.

We are moving house in a few weeks time and keeping my fingers crossed it is the birds and that when we move there won't be such a loud one right outside her bedroom. If not then I think we've just accepted now that we are lucky she sleeps so well through the night and that it could be way worse!

Cheers for all the help with suggested tweaks.

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2016, 12:08:31 pm »
Tbh I'd definitely go for 6pm BT even if she wakes at the same time - she'll be much more restored after the longer night, which should make it easier in the long run to shift her day.

When you've moved the nap later, did you move the whole day later too, by the same amount, or just that nap?

How annoying about the birds - lovely to hear them, but wouldn't it be so much nicer if they'd just wake up a bit later ;) do you use white noise at all? Could you rearrange the bedroom so that her cot is further from the window? Ok, perhaps not worth it before you move anyway, just the thoughts that popped into my head :-*

Hope all goes well with that move - you're braver than I ;)



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2016, 19:47:31 pm »
Moved the whole day forward dependent really on what time she woke from the morning nap and afternoon nap.

I should have gone for a 6pm bedtime today as had a very over tired bub at bedtime who hasnt been settled at all this evening which is totally unlike her but somehow the time ran away from me.

Unfortunately her room isn't big enough for us to be able to move the furniture. We were saying this morning about white noise but we've never used it for her so worried about introducing something like that.

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2016, 22:38:40 pm »
You can gradually introduce white noise by starting it so quietly it can barely be heard and then slowly turn up the volume each successive night. If you do try it, I would turn it on during her wind down also.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2016, 06:08:41 am »
So after thinking it was the birds, the last 3 mornings when she's woken I've not heard the birds. She's also now waking happy chatty and thumb suckling to begin with but we haven't been able to leave her til 7 as last 3 morning she's become grizzly by 6.30ish. Also last 3 nights she has randomly let out a cry at around 8pm just for a minute or 2 tops and then goes back to sleep and then a couple of times in the night probably around 1/2 and 3/4 she's done a really loud chatty bit for a bit not long at all but still doing it when before she was solidly sleeping through.

I know in the grand scheme of things we are lucky that she pretty much sleeps through from bedtime until the morning at 5.45 but I feel like gradually we are slipping backwards and would really like to get back to her waking at 7 and my accepting the 5.45 wake up has lasted all of 3 days!!

This is roughly how our day has gone the last 3 days

Wu 5.45
Out of cot 6.45
Bottle 7.15
Solids 8.15
Nap 9.40
Awake 11
Bottle 11.15
Solids 12.30
Nap 2
Awake 3
Bottle 3.15
Solids 4.30
Bath 6
Bottle 6.15
Asleep 6.30

I can't seem to get the afternoon nap right at the moment as it seems to be capping itself at an hour. Friday thought I'd try a 3hr 15 awake time and that resulted in a shorter nap with her waking crying. I can't resettle her when she wakes. I think that's because 3 o clock is the time her bottle is due so she wakes wanting the bottle but how can I alter this as can't really give her the bottle much later first thing.

I had wanted to do a 6pm bed time yesterday but struggle to see how to fit in bottle solids bath and bottle into a 3 hr period!

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2016, 23:33:15 pm »
I just had to read back to remind myself where we were, as I was wondering about fitting in a late afternoon CN - and I saw we'd already discussed it. How would you feel about trying it again? Doesn't even have to be as long as half an hour, if you think that would be too long. I just keep thinking there's some OT creeping in there, and a little CN might just help to stretch the day out a bit whilst helping to avoid OT. Wdyt?



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2016, 05:30:48 am »
I was doing the cat nap I got down to 15 minutes around 5.15 and then waking her at 5.30 and going for a 7.30 bed time but she still woke at the same time.

Thing is if she wakes from her nap at 3 I think the earliest she'd go down for a cat nap is 5.45 and waking her then at 6 seems too late as she then wouldn't go down until 8ish.

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2016, 13:01:46 pm »
Ok, but she may surprise you and go down earlier for a CN, especially if previous naps were a bit on the short side... i'm just a bit wary of two slightly shorter naps without reducing the following A time, since that can lead to a build up of OT. She's actually getting a decent length night, which is why I wondered about pushing the day out a little with a CN, but I agree that 8pm sounds late if she's still waking at 5:45am afterwards. I guess ideally, we'd see at least one nap of more than 1.5h in there. Bearing in mind that in a few months you'll be wanting one of the naps to get shorter, which one do you think that's likely to be? Which one do you think she prefers? Does she tend to do better with a long morning nap or does that mess up the rest of the day? Just wondering about giving one of those A times a push, in the hope of getting a longer nap then...



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2016, 20:31:53 pm »
Tried for the cat nap a couple of days and it resulted in all out screaming until I got her back out of the cot at which point she was happy happy again. It's like she's going errrr no mum I don't do 3 naps anymore!!

Had a wake up of 6.20 two days when I put her down for morning nap at 9.15 and putting her down at 9.15 also resulted in longer naps ... 1hr 45 nap one day and a 2hr nap the next but then the last 2 days I've not been able to do the earlier nap time and she's woken with a 5 on the clock again.

It's definitely the morning nap that she needs. If she doesn't get that she is grizzly throughout the day. Don't even want to think about it all changing up again 🙈 altho know I will need to but hoping she won't go to one nap for a good while!

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2016, 02:43:07 am »
You should have a few months at the least before you need think about moving to one nap. It took a bit to get my DS settled onto 2 naps (and doing a decent WU) but once he got there it was nice not to worry about the CN and the routine lasted ages. We went for a longer last A and that worked really well for us.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2016, 09:55:36 am »
Really hoping that we get the same. Once settled into 2 naps I'm hoping we'll have a while before any further changes.

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2016, 05:14:27 am »
So last few of days give or take 15/20 mins here or there have roughly looked like this...

5.30 - wake up - chat/doze
7am - out of cot
9.45 - nap
11.15 - wake
2.15 - nap
4.15 wake
7.15/7.30 - bed

So afternoon nap has been 2 hours and ive pushed out the mornig nap by 15 mins and shes still managing her 1hr 30 nap but now she's been waking at 5.30 rather than 5.50.

Just feel at a complete loss because looking at different sample routines etc for a 7 month old her routine seems pretty much right but then she is still waking at 5.30 rather than 7 as all the sample ones suggest.

A friends said yesterday to reduce her day time sleep but I always feel bad waking her from naps as figure if shes sleeping she must need it and there have been days where shes o ly had 2hrs to 2hr 30 naps ad shes still woken at the same time.

If I were to go down the route of reducing her day time naps I'm not sure which to reduce and by how much?

Also with our house move now only just over a week away the 1hr 30 nap time gives me a chance to get stuff done. Wondering if we just wait until we've moved and see if that makes a difference.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 06:02:44 am by H7 »

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2016, 19:32:10 pm »
Yeah I wouldn't try to change too much else around the time of the move, enough going on as it is for you all :-* Have you tried extending her last A time to BT at all, that might just help to both push the night a little later and make her a little more tired so she sleeps a little longer in the morning? Some LOs quite like a long last A... Perhaps add just 15mins on at BT to start, see what happens?



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2016, 05:50:35 am »
We have tried longer awake time at the end of the day but found that she is quite unsettled for the first few hours that she is asleep when we do this and she still wakes around 5.30 whether she goes to bed at 6 or 7.45.

Going to just leave everything be until we move house. A few people have also said to me that moving is likely to unsettle her so will see what house moving throws at us.

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2016, 01:51:59 am »
Going to just leave everything be until we move house. A few people have also said to me that moving is likely to unsettle her so will see what house moving throws at us.
I would do the same in your position. I hope the move goes smoothly :)
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2016, 09:57:40 am »
Still not moved and still have the 5.30am wake up time!

With moving the am nap to 9.45 would you still then let bub sleep for the 1hr 30 or wake up at 11 still? I put her down at 10 yesterday and she slept til 11.30 but that meant she didn't go down for her after on nap til 2.30 and I had to wake her at 4 otherwise bed time would have been too late. Wondering if I need to cap one of the naps. She does seem more grumpy if I wake her early from her morning one to get us places that her afternoon one so maybe I should let the morning one be 1hr 30 and cut the afternoon one to 1hr???

Offline trimbler

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2016, 19:11:51 pm »
I do wonder about pushing out BT a little, especially if,she's happy in the morning? If I'm wrong then she'll likely show definite signs of having been OT at BT and then that would suggest nap capping instead to get that longer night. How would you feel about that?



Offline H7

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2016, 09:11:47 am »
I've been putting her down at 7.15 do you think go later than that?

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Re: 5.30am wake up
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2016, 18:57:25 pm »
Yes I'd try a bit later, just see what happens... I tended to find that nights got shorter towards transitions, however each of mine seemed to have a different limit as to how short their night could get before needing to cap naps. You may well be at that nap capping stage already, but since she's doing lovely naps, I reckon you might be able to stretch that last A a bit, in the hope that you move the A she has at 5:30am to the evening ;) You could try BT at 7:30pm to start, and move later in 15min increments until you either see clear signs of OT (in which case we rethink and start capping one of the naps) or she starts waking later in the morning. The hope would be to both lengthen her night and shift it later, by getting her a little more tired before BT, if that makes sense.