5.30am wake up

[H7]

My LO is 5.5 months and was sleeping 7 til 7 but a few weeks ago started waking between 5.15-5.45 and despite trying various tweaks I can't seem to get her back to a 7am wake up. Last night she also woke at 3.30am chatting until 4.15.

I've tried putting her to bed as late as 7.30 and as early as 6 but she still wakes at the same time. She usually has 3 naps but tried a few days of 2 naps and have the same result. She usually naps 3hr to 3hr 45 but this week due to being out 3 days in a row she had 4 days of 2hr 30 naps and still woke at the same time.

When she wakes at 5.30 she's chatty and will then suck her thumb and appear to doze off again then wake a few mins later and chat etc and that goes on til 6.45/7 when we go and get her up for the day. We had tried going in around 5.45/6 and saying sleepy time etc but found it didn't make a difference and that rather than being chatty happy and dozing she would get a little more shouty or start to cry as we had been in and then left again.

Once up at 7 I have then been putting her back down for 9 (she falls asleep within a min or 2) and she sleeps then for about 1hr 30. I have tried stretching this time out to 9.15 and even 9.30 one day but that resulted in a much shorter nap and her waking crying. This morning I put her down at 9.05 and she was asleep by 9.08. Will see how long she lasts.

Do you think I should go in and get her up at 5.30 and start our day then? That's really not something I want to do tho especially given that she's just happily chatting and have little dozing/resting times.

So like I say I really feel like I've tried all the tweaks I can think of yet still it's 5.30 every morning that the chatting begins. She has blackout blinds so don't think it's light,  thermostat is in her room so temperature is constant so don't think it's that either. And she's not waking hungry either.

A rough idea of our last few days

Sat
5.30 -6.45 - chat/doze in cot
6.45 - up
7am - feed
9.45 - nap (later as we were at swimming)
11 am wake
13.00 - nap
13.25 - wake (short as we were in the car)
3.45 - nap (tried earlier due to previous short nap and she was having none of it)
5pm - wake
7pm - bed (took her 20 min to fall asleep where as usually falls asleep much quicker)

Fri
5.45 - 7 - chat/doze
7 - up
7.15 - feed
9 - nap
10.45 wake
13.15 - nap
15.15 - wake
6.45 - bed (was aiming for 6.15 but had a mass poo explosion and hubby coming home in middle.of bedtime routine so it got pushed quite late)

Thurs

5.30 - 7 - chat/doze
7 - up
7.15 - feed
8.50 - nap (earlier as she was so grizzly and tired I just didn't feel I could push it out to 9)
10.20 - wake
12.15 - nap (earlier than expected as out in pushchair)
13.00 - wake (doesn't seem to sleep.longer than 45 min in pushchair)
14.20 - nap (wasn't expecting her to fall asleep we were walking home from friend sin pushchair)
14.45 - wake (got home and steps up to house so no way of getting her in without waking her)
17.00 - nap
17.30 - wake
19.00 - bed

So as you can see after the morning nap there is no real consistency in our day. There is if we stay in but we are out most afternoons. I tried staying in all week the week before last to see if I could try and make adjustments that way but even with a more consistent week nap time and length wise it didn't make a difference.

She's currently on 2.15 to 2.30 awake time. Feeds at roughly 7.15, 11, 3 and just before bed so anything from 6-6.45.

Sorry it's such a long post just wanted to set everything out. Any thoughts on any additional tweaks I could make would be most welcome.

[trimbler]

Hi there, no need to apologise for the post length, it's really useful to see it all laid out like that

It is a bit hard to spot patterns when you're out and about in the afternoons, but IMO it's better for our sanity not to feel bound by our LOs' naps I did wonder whether she might need a bit more A time overall, which you might be able to achieve by offering a short third nap so that she can have a little more A time afterwards - most LOs need to be able to manage 3h A times before dropping to two naps, then they end up with 3x3h = 9h overall A. If you're on two naps but only 2.5h A times (for example), you only get 7.5h A overall, which is likely not quite enough, or else an extra long A to BT, which can then result in OT, which can in turn result in EWs.

It's actually pretty common for LOs this age to chat early in the morning, it can also be developmental, but probably worth looking at the routine as things do change so quickly at this age. Also worth considering whether anything else happens at 5:30am, eg a boiler turning on, someone getting up to leave for work, etc?

[H7]

No boiler or anyone leaving for work. Had wondered re developmental as currently in a leap according to wonder weeks app.

Today's gone like this

5.45 -7 chat/doze
7 - awake
9.05 - nap
10.35 - awake
1pm - nap
2.30 - awake

Going to try for a nap again before 5 and wake her by 5.30 and aim for 7pm bed.

Would that be okay do you reckon?

[trimbler]

Hi there, sorry couldn't get on again until now - too late to answer your question, so let me know how it went

[H7]

Yesterday looked like this...

5.45 -7 chat/doze
7 - out of cot
9.05 - nap
10.35 - awake
1pm - nap
2.30 - awake
5pm - nap
5.30pm - wake
7.05pm - in bed
7.20pm - asleep

3.30 - 4am - chatting
5am - chatting

So even earlier today than on previous days! Stayed in yesterday as well to try and get the day sorted but just don't know what else I can do. No way she would have stayed awake from 2.30 til 6 for bed time then or maybe she would have done?

[H7]

Today has been

5am - 6.30 chatting/doze
6.30-7.30 - sleep
7.30 - up
10am - nap
11.30 - wake
2pm - nap
3pm - wake

So only 2hr 30 nap time but I don't think I'll be able to fit another nap in as it would mean a 5.30 start of nap time which just seems too late or do you think that would be ok?

[lily_layne]

So only 2hr 30 nap time but I don't think I'll be able to fit another nap in as it would mean a 5.30 start of nap time which just seems too late or do you think that would be ok?

I likely would have done a short nap from 530-6 and gone for BT around 745/8. Does she fall asleep easily in the stroller or car? Sometimes that can be a good way to get in a third nap as sometimes LOs will fall asleep sooner in a car or stroller than they would in a crib.

When the nap ended at 230, I also would have done a CN at 5 like you did. I do think the chatting is most likely developmental. Both of my LOs had periods of chatting at night and early in the morning at that age and it went away on its own (I tweaked and tweaked with LO1 and nothing helped, with LO2 I just let things be).

[H7]

Last night was worst yet ...

Chatting at 11, 1, 2.30, 3.30 and now at 5 😴😴

I have tweaked and tweaked and nothing seems to be working ... its been going on almost a month now.... maybe it is just developmental but if it is how long do you think it will last?

I know she's not waking crying but I'm still awake each time she chats in the night and sometimes it can last an hr and then she's awake for the day at 5.

Maybe I should try the later catnip and late bedtime or maybe I should stop tweaking and accept that what will be will be but after her sleeping 7 til 7 it's really beginning to get to me!

[trimbler]

(((Hugs))) I know what you mean, an EW is an EW whether happy or crying, you're still awake Agree it's really common at this age, but that doesn't mean to say we can't have a think about what tweaks might work... I can't help wondering whether she needs an increase in A? But not sure how well she'd manage that on a day when she wakes so early. But perhaps wait until a day where she wakes early chatting and then falls back to sleep again (as she did the other day) and then probably leave the first A at 2.5h but push the second A a little - just seeing that 2.5h second A may have got her a UT second nap that day, because she probably started the day more refreshed, wdyt? I suspect that things will get a little easier once she's down to two naps, not that she's necessarily ready just yet, but starting to stretch those As when she's a bit more refreshed might be a step in the right direction... How was the rest of the day, before that exhausting night?

[H7]

Still having the EW it's been going on for about 6 weeks now. Have tried every possible tweak I can think of but still she wakes with a 5 in the time. In fact the only time she hasn't is when we went to the coast for the weekend and stayed in a caravan and there was a massive storm. My husband and I barely slept a wink but she slept 12 hrs from 7.30 to 7.30!

Her day for the last 3 days has looked like this

5.20 - 7 - on off chatting and sleep
7 - wake up
7.15 bottle
8.15 solids
9.30 nap
10.45 wake
11.15 bottle
12.30 solids (if doing lunch only on 2 meals a day so doing either a 12.30 solids or a 4.30 solids)
1.30/1.45 - nap
3/3.30 - wake
3.15/3.45 - bottle
4.30/5 - solids
6.15 - bottle
6.30 - bed

So she's been down to 2 naps the last 3 days. Her morning nap seems to only be 1hr 15 at the moment but then on Sunday she did 1hr 45 for morning nap with the exact same start to the day and she's also done a few 1hr 30s recently too with that awake time in the morning and one day last week with the same morning pattern she only did 30 min morning nap.

[trimbler]

Hi there, just wondered how those early starts really are - would you say it's quite variable how much she's awake and chatting, or dozing, or just lying quietly? Or is she basically awake from 5:30am or so? I'm wondering about just pushing that first A a bit, perhaps gently pushing the whole day later (but keeping subsequent A times the same, only stretch the first one a little at a time), in the hope of kind of shifting her day. Depending on what those early WUs are like, she may just be getting enough sleep as it is, so shifted her day may be all she needs? How does she seem during the day? Do you feel she's getting enough sleep overall, by her general behaviour?

[H7]

Not really sure what the combination is between sleep and chatter as it's been going on so long now I'm managing to drift back off in between the chatting. But I'd say there's more quiet time than there is chatting.

She's general 95% or more of the time a really happy baby during the day so no grouchy grizzly over tired baby signs really. Her .oat grizzly time of the day is from around 5/5.30 until bed time but the last few days since doing 2 naps only randomly she seems less grouchy at that time.

Yesterday I actually put her down for her nap morning 10 minutes earlier (so at 9.20) as she just looked so tired and I ended up waking her up after 2 hours 10 minutes as felt that was long enough. She then had 1hr 15 afternoon nap and this morning she didn't wake til 6.30. There was a brief chatty but literally a minute tops at 5.45 then back to sleep for another cycle.

Now I'm totally confuzzled!

[trimbler]

They do like to keep us guessing, don't they? Sounds to me like she might have done a bit of catching up yesterday with that long morning nap? Let's see how things go over the next few days?

[H7]

Mmm yeah she had another 2hr plus morning nap again today too. Be interesting to see how tonight goes.

[lily_layne]

I have no explanation as to why it helped (and it goes against what most sleep experts say) but a longer morning nap often helped improve my DS's early mornings.