Author Topic: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine  (Read 2463 times)

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Offline Eva's Mummy

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3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« on: March 24, 2016, 08:36:49 am »
We are really struggling here. DD1 has been nap dropping for a while now and for the past 2 weeks has not napped at all. i still try but she refused. However we are stuck in a EBT / EW routine and i cant see a way our of it.

Our routine looks a bit like this

WU 5:00 - 5:25
BT 17:45 - 18:10

I work 3 days a week so on those days that is the earliest i can get her to bed, when i put her down later she wakes earlier. She used to be doing more like a 6-6 but as we got more nnd she started waking earlier and earlier. If i stick to a 12hr day she does a better night but with BT being that early its hard to get everydone when i dont get them home until 17:10.

Ideally i would love a 7-7 routine that would give us a wee bit of wriggle room for EBT's if we need it. BUt i cant see how we are going to get there. I am shattered, its been months of EW's and its starting to get to me. Any suggestions would be very welcome please xx


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 09:14:59 am »
Clocks go forward in a few days so you'll have an automatic 1 hr 'fix' there.  Instead of 5am WU it will be 6am which will feel a whole lot better.

Otherwise, I think it may be a case of putting her down for bed so late that she ends up with no option but to sleep later.  I know with a later BT she's OT EWing but if you go beyond that for a few days (rather than keep trying to give earlier and earlier EBTs) at some point (with enough tiredness) she will either sleep through to a later time or wake so early (MOTN) that it becomes a NW which is easier to resettle.  For instance 5am is a really hard time to resettle a sleep but if it ends up 4 or 3am it is easier.
If it was me I'd wait until after the clocks change and then shift the additional hour.  With my DS I tried moving the routine on 15 mins at a time, it didn't work, he lost sleep every night, when I moved 30 mins per day for 3-4 days that worked and he woke later.  I ended up going 'beyond' the hour to make him wake an hour later, and then slowly brought BT a little earlier and a little earlier until it was back to a full night.  If your DD doesn't respond well to small moves of 15 mins then a more rapid shift may be an option.


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 11:24:27 am »
Thank you so much for getting back to me. The 15 mins increments are just making her more and more OT and taking away from her sleep so i think we need to try your idea.

So should i leave it a fewa days after the clock change or straight away. She will be at home sun, mon, tue then back at the CM's wed thu. So i could do it then or maybe best to wait until the fri, sat the following week.

So i'd be doing this:
 Clock change will hipefully get us to BT 18:30
Night 1 BT 19:00
Night 2 BT 19:30
Night 3 BT 20:00

Do you think 3 days will do it, also was it just an extra quiet 30mins. Then how quick do you bring BT, sorry for all the questions.



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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 13:14:24 pm »
The 15 mins increments are just making her more and more OT and taking away from her sleep
This is what happened with mine too. Every night he lost another 15 mins so over time it ended up quite a lot of sleep lost.  He had a very strong body clock waking him regardless of the later BT.

So should i leave it a fewa days after the clock change or straight away.
As the clock change doesn't actually effect her routine, just make your times better (result!) there is no harm in doing it all at once it's just that if it was me I'd like to sort out the clock change first and then move the routine so that I knew what time I was working to. I also need to write stuff like that down to make sure I get the times right!

Clock change will hipefully get us to BT 18:30
from your eASY above it looks more like clock change will get you to 6.45/7.10 BT rather than 6.30...but yes

Night 1 BT 19:00
Night 2 BT 19:30
Night 3 BT 20:00
yes that's it.  If with clock change you are actually already close to 7pm you might need to go further than 8pm, possibly 8.30pm for a day or two unless she wakes later before you reach that.

Do you think 3 days will do it, also was it just an extra quiet 30mins
I would also move meal times the 30 mins as these routine times help LO to know where they are up to in the day. The more you can move to the 'new' time in the routine the better, so also bath and any other routine things, move them all the 30 mins to give her body clock a good indication of where she is at.

Then how quick do you bring BT
Once you get a later WU, I mean properly later, 7am or later, then that day do the same BT you already did (whatever it was) just to make sure you don't slip backwards too quickly. Then the next day make BT 15 mins earlier, watch what time WU is. If it is still good, past 7am then that day bring BT another 15 mins earlier.  As you are not capping the night sleep she 'should' be able to get as much sleep as needed once her body clock lets her sleep past 5/6am ish.
I must warn you - it's all guess work - it worked for my DS, I was willing and prepared for the worst (ie OT NWs) but it worked out much better than I expected.

Good luck!


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 14:16:05 pm »
fantastic thank you. I'll wait until next friday then to start then i can see how she's getting on with the clock change.

I will need to write it all down cos DD2 has a lovely 7-7 routine so i'm hoping to keep her times the same after the clock change and not move the 1hr so i can see myslef getting all mixed up.

I'm really hoping it works, she just shattered at the moment, losing sleep every night. She actually woke at 2:25 a couple of days ago which is so unlike her. Took a bit to get her back down but i ended up sleeping on the floor until 4:30 then she woke at 5:10. Hopefully this will help her out a bit x


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 14:20:37 pm »
FX for you.  I hope it works xx


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 20:38:09 pm »
Thank you.  I know I'm a pest but can I ask 1 more question. If after the 1st night pushing bt we don't get a later wu do I still push a further 30 mins the next day? And if by day 3 WU is still early do in hold the 8:30 bt until wu moves?


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2016, 07:51:31 am »
You are not a pest :)

If after the 1st night pushing bt we don't get a later wu do I still push a further 30 mins the next day?
That's what I did, yes. So she iwll lose sleep, like mine did, but she loses 30 mins night 1, an hour night, 2 and 1.5hrs night 3, but hopefully night 3 or soon after she will sleep later.  I worked out with mine that overall he lost less this way as the 15 mins every night just went on and on and on.
And if by day 3 WU is still early do in hold the 8:30 bt until wu moves?
Yes or increase an additional 30 mins again.


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2016, 08:07:52 am »
Well the clock change got us a wu of 6:45 we had a really good day, bedtime of 18:45 bur she wouldn't sleep. Said she wasn't tired bur wasn't sure if it because she knew her daddy was on his way home and she hadn't seen him all weekend. Anyway bt ended up being 19:55 but she woke up after 21:00 being sick then went straight back to sleep after we changed her and the bed and woke up at 6:20.

So where do you suggest we go from here, what bt would you try tonight and how long a day should I be aiming for ?


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2016, 18:01:34 pm »
Oh dear, if she's sick all bets are off.  Could need an earlier than usual BT but some times the regular BT.  I wouldn't change any routine until she's better - although having said that my DS's biggest changes in routine have always been when he was ill and the routine went even more off so I took advantage of the disturbance and got him onto a new routine. I suppose I felt  able because I was there with him judging how things were going, I wouldn't just advise routine changes for a sick LO though.
Hope she's better soon, there are some nasty bugs going around.


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2016, 05:34:37 am »
Well she's totally fine, not sure if it's just too much excitement before bed.

Anyway wu is getting earlier again.  After click change we've gone from WU 6:45 , 6:20 and today 6:05.

Yesterday we did exactly a 12 hour day and got the longest night sleep in a while 11 hrs 45 but if she does the same tonight WU will shift to 5:55.

I'm going to start the big push tomorrow since I'm off Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  Do you think in the long run I should be aiming for a 12.5hr day and hope that doesn't give a shorter night sleep?



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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2016, 17:54:25 pm »
If you think her normal night is 11.5hrs then yes I'd go for a 12.5hr day.  Thing is if she consistently over sleeps in the morning you'll know she needs an earlier night won't you?
Good luck with the time push x


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2016, 11:13:51 am »
Well we were doing not too bad then the cm let her nap yesterday for 20 mins which totally threw get off so bt was 20:50 but like always after a nap it seriously robs her night sleep and she only did a 9.5hr night so she is shattered today


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2016, 18:48:51 pm »
Is that usual for the CM to let her  nap?  Is she coming down with an illness?


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2016, 19:00:38 pm »
No she never usually naps there but I know the cm wasn't feeling to well so they just had a quite day at home. She popped a movie on after lunch and put a blanket over her and she nodded m I'm guessing it was her that wanted the rest not dd really.

I don't think she's coming down with anything just still gers tired she's not long fully dropped her nap. So gets tired but usually doesn't nap cos of the  bt havoc


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2016, 19:07:58 pm »
Hope you're back on track very soon x


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2016, 19:14:23 pm »
OMG I don't know what is wrong with this girl. I now can't get het yo bed for love nor money. She's up 6:30 and hasn't been going to sleep around 8:30 / 9:00. Every time I try she keeps screaming that she's not tired  ???


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 06:44:58 am »
If she hasn't had a nap since the CM let her have one several days ago then I'd try for a much earlier BT at least one night.
Does sleep usually go off track around birthday and half birthday? Just wondering if you've had a half birthday leap yet or perhaps this is it (although a little later than expected)?

I know you were going to try shifting BT and WU and perhaps that's why you've got the later Wu at 6.30 but a nap half way through that process may not have helped.  Maybe the nap threw her routine off much more than one might think??


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 06:58:04 am »
The only time she went off track with sleep was when she was about 2. She's been fine ever since. So I'm not sure.

What bt would you aim for? WU today was 6:30 again. Would you try a 12 hour day?



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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2016, 07:15:20 am »
Yes I'd go for 6.30pm


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2016, 19:05:39 pm »
Out like a light at 6:30 so well see what the morning brings would you wait until she's more settled to get wu closer to 7 again x


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2016, 06:53:25 am »
Wu was 6:10 so 11 hrs 40 min night and a much happier little girl this morning.

Would you suggest leaving it a little bit to try to move wu again. I'm not sure wither to try again now while she's on holiday or wait till she's back at nursery when she's more tired 3 days a week?


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Re: 3.5 years old - stuck in a EW / EBT routine
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2016, 09:04:21 am »
I'd prob do it now whilst her WU time looks to be a bit flexible. When I did the move with DS his WU was so fixed regardless of what time he went to bed, it was like I had to make him OT (and fast) to get that WU time to move because his body clock was so set on the WU time.  So for me if WU was shifting I'd use it as an opportunity to get it somewhere close to what you want.

The thing is you're not going to be able to keep going on a 12hr day and 11.5hr night it just doesn't add up does it.