Author Topic: Nursing & AP?  (Read 6670 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Nursing & AP?
« on: March 26, 2016, 04:08:03 am »
Hello!

So this can apply to "sleep" questions but I wanted to ask more in the BFing community since i might have better luck with women who ran into this issue! It is a question about BFing however.

Ok so, is it AP if I offer him to nurse before naps/BT ...BUT, is slightly roused (I burp him; he's tongue tied and tends to need burping often- burps successfully) when I go to burp him over my shoulder, and then finish rocking him to sleep? He's 5 weeks! The thing is, nursing to sleep is the one prop I do not want to deal with later (I dealt with it with my first) and I know how challenging it is to teach I.S when they are used to being "nursed" to sleep.

Being that my son is tongue tied, he tired VERY easily at the breast and I've also resulted to doing this as he does not easily transfer milk at each feed so just to be on the safe side, I try to offer the breast often to make sure he's getting his feeding. So I normally feed on demand of course but mostly when he wakes, then I offer some before he sleeps just so he isn't waking from hunger. He seems to be more tired when I do this and goes into sleep much faster, easier and quicker even after he's been aroused and rocked (I don't mind rocking to sleep- I can cross that bridge when I get there!) ...and he staaaaays asleep better than when just rocked. I guess because having worked overtime and all?

But would this be AP? To my nursing moms, what do you think? What's your tactics to avoid nursing to sleep? This has turned out to be much easier and faster and that is super convenient because I have a toddler around and the time I spend rocking and getting to sleep can take 15-20 mins and I do not like to leave my little one so long. This way, it's more like 5-10. Also helps around BT since the process is faster w/ the baby and before it would take FOR.EV.ER!

What do you think?

Thank you!!
Fabi






Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2016, 09:16:15 am »
I think that it is probably going to depend on your lo - what you have done sounds like exactly what I did with dd1 and we had no problems at all with independent sleep. Having said that, I did similar with dd2 and had some issues because she got to waking often in the night and wouldn't settle unless I fed her. I don't think that it was so much needing the feed to go to sleep,  but she got used to only going to sleep with a full tummy.

At 5 weeks he is still so little I wouldn't worry about it just yet. Maybe as he gets a bit bigger you could try to sing a song before you put him down or something so that there is a little gap between the feed and going to sleep.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2016, 10:41:02 am »
Thank you for your response :)

How long did u BF and by when did you attempt I.S.?

Yes he's little but the reason I ask, even so little, is b/c even NOW he won't settle without the "nursing" and usually, he's just using me as a paci it seems but as I mentioned, he's slightly aroused by burping or finish w/ rocking to sleep. If I skip this step, he will not settle easily and wakes easier. Not sure if it's b/c the full tummy or he wakes needing to suck. He really has a need to suck. My first son never took the paci and weaning off the breast was SOOO much work- I'm nervous to do it again! It was harder as I felt guilty or unsure if it was ever really hunger or just comfort and if so, how could I take it away. They both seem to be persistent guys ;)

So I wasn't sure ..... :/
Fabi






Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2016, 10:44:02 am »
How and when did you successfully wean and teach IS to DD2? What was your approach?
Fabi






Offline *Ali*

  • Breast Feeding & Pregnancy/Childbirth
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 373
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 22302
  • Caught in the act!
  • Location: London uk
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2016, 23:22:57 pm »
At 5wks I'm a bit surprised you can even fit in 2 BFs in one A times since they tend to be around 1 hr only.

What you do with the burping to rouse sounds fine to me. At this age, you're going to be helping them to sleep one way or another really anyway.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 12:14:32 pm by *Ali* »
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2016, 03:10:10 am »
True they need all the help to sleep ;)

Well Ali, thanks for your input! :)

I'm aware of those A times! I try my best to stick to them! However, he is tongue tied and so I always feel he doesn't get his fill in one feed as he gets super exhausted. I truly never know tbh and I just offer it! But I also mentioned he uses me more as a paci and I'm aware of this and take advantage of it as it speeds up the time he's asleep! With my toddler around, the faster he's down, the better! Haha!

Did BF ever become a prop for you Ali? I'm interested in how other BF mom me handled this! I know it's easy and lovely to use the power of the breast at first ;) !!

I do burp and end up rocking- sometimes as I burp he just stays asleep on my shoulder- not always... But would that still count as an arousal, not nursing to sleep? I'm trying to keep the end goal in mind and minimize the nursing to sleep or "comfort" nursing to sleep, in my case! Again, I know the struggle of weaning BF later and it's something I def want to try diff this time!

Also, he sleeps long stretches nights for the most part... There have been growth spurts and he was waking every 2 hours to feed then went back to normal... But how do I know later if he's actually hungry or waking for comfort?? -- again, to avoid AP, I would like to comfort in other ways if it's not hunger. NOT NOW, but for future reference :)
Fabi






Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2016, 08:00:49 am »
I fed for 1 year, 18 months and 2 years. IS was really easy for dd1 - she found her thumb at 10 weeks and we never looked back. I have to say that your lo does sound quite similar to her in the way he settles and sleeps through the night. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

Dd2 needed to suck, and we forced a paci on her until she found her thumb. When I realised that she was nursing in the night as a prop I just refused to feed her and ended up co-sleeping for a while. It didn't take that long to wean her off it (a couple of nights), although they weren't easy nights.

The thing that I have really learned is that it is okay to do what you need to do now and worry about later when the time comes. I know that it is really hard to wean props, but your sanity in the short term is important too, and you don't need to wean a prop until you are really ready to do it.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2016, 14:53:00 pm »
Thanks for the help Clazzat!

Useful!! I know what you mean about sanity NOW. Especially with two. That's why I've kinda gave in to everything for now but I am keeping the long term in mind! When do you think is the best time to encourage weaning "props" ??? When I donu want to use my breast he does well w/ the paci to soothe and settle but he pops it out or we do and continue rocking or whatever. He doesn't seem to rely on the paci. He "settles" quite easy most days/nights but he also has his moments! Some days/nights he just won't settle! Once he's OT, it's over! :o  but he does seemingly decent, for now ;)
But yes he has been sleeping through since maybe 3 weeks. Most nights are well- 5,6 hour stretches and the rest can sometimes vary ;)

My baby is currently swaddled so he prb won't be finding his fingers but when he's not, he does suck on his hands so who knows! Was yours swaddled?

I just get intimidated in the long run about nursing to sleep since I've been there before. Having known now, I "prefer" to just keep it in mind, if that makes sense! Nursing to sleep in the past was killer for us, so I just want to find w better balance/alternative.
Fabi






Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2016, 08:32:30 am »
I totally understand about not wanting to fall into the same trap again, but really it sounds like he is doing great and you might do best just to roll with it for the time being and see what happens. Mine were all swaddled but found their thumbs anyway. Once dd1 was trying to suck her thumb we would leave one arm out so that she could reach it.

Offline *Ali*

  • Breast Feeding & Pregnancy/Childbirth
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 373
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 22302
  • Caught in the act!
  • Location: London uk
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2016, 12:25:14 pm »
Instead of rocking after burping I used shh pat over my shoulder. That way when I was ready to start settling in the cot they were used to the shh pat and associated it with being soothed to sleep. It's hard to wean rocking as it's impossible to do it once you lay them down. That's why  BW recommends shh pat.

I found that as long as I settled in the cot sometimes it didn't matter if I fed to sleep at other times.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2016, 16:31:38 pm »
Clazzat,

Ohhhhh I see!! He has found his hands and a few times the thumb but not a fan yet haha hmm but something to think about! Thanks for that ;) ...when did you wean your swaddle, and how was it?  Yes I mean, generally I can't complain, about night sleep (just yet ;)) ...he will sleep as of lately, 6 hour stretches then 3-4 after that first feed. On a good night. Do you think this is a sign that he is not using BFing as a prop?

Thank you Ali, that's true. Buuuut, shh pat over my shoulder has never worked for us?! It helps to calm him during awake times if he's fussy. When it comes to sleep, early on I tried to implement shh/pat but it seems as though it stimulates him? Is that possible? As I have him over my shoulder he's lifting his head up or bopping it around, never settles to even a "drowsy/awake" state. I'm currently doing APOP b/c of the toddler and b/c as many have mentioned, at this age (6 weeks today) we have to help them regardless. I end up rocking as hard as I know it is to wean but not as hard as breast was! :o
Is it possible shh/pat doesn't work for him? I offer breast before naps/BT for 2 reasons:

1) he's tongue tied and always falls asleep easy during feeds and my concern that he doesn't transfer enough milk with his first wake feed in EASY routine (which was an issue in his earlier days. Weight has been good since around 3/4 weeks old)

2) there are times I'm just a pacifier to him and he falls asleep or gets drowsy at the breast, and it speeds up our process to get him to sleep which I need b/c of the toddler. However, rocking and a paci work too. He spits it out almost immediately or I take it out during and he never needs it anymore. Like, he doesn't depend on it much but just to calm him to a drowsy state. 

I rock him yes but then stop and let him just lay there as well! Then transfer him off to where he sleeps. Also Ali, if I may add, he sleeps in a swing which resembles a car seat, but I've never turned it on or have him rocking- ever. He sleeps there b/c after his first few weeks at home we noticed he was very uncomfortable on his back. Later I realize he does have slight reflux and sleeps better at an incline. Once it subsides around 3 months or so (according to dr since it's not so severe to be put on meds) I will transfer him to his crib. So my point is, I can't do much shh/pat from the swing... :-/ I read Tracy has them on their side and pats.

What do you think of this? We do use a white noise app from my old phone. Shhing and patting does calm him I've noticed but more like he's thinking, "what is this she's doing" ...it calms him during A times when he's fussy but it seems bc it's more of a sudden alert. Over the shoulder patting without shh sometimes relaxes him a bit.
Fabi






Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2016, 18:08:45 pm »
Have you done the know your baby quiz? It can help to work out what to do if you know what type of baby you are dealing with. For example, dd2 was a mix of 4 different types, but I noticed when I did the quiz that the answers where she came out touchy were all to do with sleep, and actually she did way better at sleeping when I didn't interfere at all - shh pat never worked for her either. When she was a bit bigger, putting her down and walking off was by far the best way to get her to sleep!

I would suggest that if the paci gets him drowsy then maybe you could give it to him once you are sure that he has had enough to eat and then he can use that rather than you and you are running less of a risk of him using you as a prop. If he is spitting it out before he actually goes to sleep there's a good chance it won't become a prop either.

Honestly I can't remember when we weaned the swaddle, but it wasn't a big deal. Dd2 and ds would only sleep on their tummies so they weren't swaddled for long, but dd1 had it for quite a while. If you have an unmedicated refluxer, you might find that he is more comfortable sleeping on his tummy - obviously that is not recommended, so that would be something that you would have to weigh up for yourself as to whether you are happy doing it.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2016, 19:50:45 pm »
Clazzat,

Again I appreciate the love ;)

I have took that quiz but I cant figure it out yet. I think when I took it, he's a mix of textbook/maybe touchy? But then the way he's always slept through the night and how content (sometimes) he can be by himself in a bouncy or chair, makes me think angel too haha! He's never fought the swaddle... Soothing him is pretty simple. Over stimulation hasn't seemed to "bother" him just do what it does after awhile, or other arms like grandma etc don't upset him. His cries are mellow but can escalate if not tended to (that's all babies isn't it?) Again, shh pat works to get him to relax- but more BC it alerts him. He jolts often and less is more has worked for him w/ sleep but tends to drift off seemingly easy unless it's during the late hours which can take awhile to settle or he keeps waking... But that's typical I think of late hours? Haha so I'm unsure!! Could I get the link to the quiz? I'll post my results!

Yes he spits it out or we take it out and he's just fine. Seems to use it just to relax... Spits it out within 5 mins or less. We take it out before he lays too and he's been ok? So far.

Weaning swaddle wasn't a big deal for our first either. Well as I mentioned above, he sleeps in a swing. Resembles a car seat b/c the reflux and discomfort. After I made the switch he slept 10x better. I've actually tried belly sleep as I know most babies prefer it but it's not recommended as you said, but he wasn't a fan it seemed but the incline has worked. I think around the 2.5/3 mth mark I'm going to attempt morning naps in the crib first- see how he feels? Have him play in the crib etc it we can find a little time... My son transitioned the same way to the crib but closer to 4-5 months and he was on meds for reflux and bad colic- he did well?

Let me ask, if he's waking after 30 mins per nap... What could it mean? It's OT w A times or that doesn't apply much to his age? ...I kno 6-8 weeks things change... Naps are good then bad but lately more bad.

Also, with short naps, as soon as they wake, would u nurse them? I always wonder if he's waking out of hunger (again, I always consider it as he's tongue tied) or just attempt to soothe back to sleep? I usually rock w paci again.. After offering him to feed just in case- or if it's a growth spurt... How would you go about the short naps and feeds?
Fabi






Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2016, 20:04:35 pm »
I got a mix of Angel, Textbook, Touchy! (I found the link!)
Fabi






Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2016, 20:29:48 pm »
Hey, sorry slightly off topic but just noticed this and wondered if you're booked in for tongue tie division, or have you decided not to go down that route? My DD had a subtle TT but having it divided made such a huge difference to her feeding, she turned from a reluctant feeder who struggled to latch, tired easily and struggled to gain weight, to an enthusiastic feeder with much improved latch and better weight gain :)



Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2016, 20:50:40 pm »
My first thought would probably be OT for a 30 min nap, particularly if he is getting very tired from feeding. It can also be os from having an older sibling around - a big problem for my dd2 - which can be addressed with slightly shorter a times. I found that a times were not terribly predictable for dd2 at this stage, although generally her first a of the day was incredibly short and they got longer as the day went on. I would probably play around with times for a bit to see if you can hit a sweet spot. As you say, of course, it all changes frequently at this point so you might not have that much luck.

Slight aside, but when we put dd2 in a cot we put books under the legs at the head of it so that it was at a slight incline - helped with her reflux.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2016, 23:12:09 pm »
Trimbler,
Thanks for joining! Well his TT isn't awful but his dr said he is TT. I'm nervous to do it and preferred not to. He also said it wasn't BAAAD to where he felt he HAD to. So I just went with it!

Clazzat,
Did DD2 always need shorter than average A times b/c of the sibling? (something to keep in mind!) Yes well now that you mention it, my son was all over him this morning :D ...dancing and getting him to dance and all in his face haha! But baby didn't act OS, or bothered in the least- smiling even! So I just let it happen and getting him down wasn't much of a struggle-- when I fed him he passed out? But I did have to cover his eyes as they were pretty open. He was fairly content and happy once I soothed him. He slept well last night so who knows! I suspect a growth spurt as he's been eating a lot... I attempted the next nap and he slept almost 3 hours? It's all crazy... But  I always figured the first A time is normally the shortest right? If I remember correctly... But then I remember extending it later as it caused early wakes! :o ....but either way I am mindful of A times... Even though short naps are/can be developmental and unavoidable.. But something to help with if it is! Question w/ feedings: during short naps, like 30 mins for example, I feed only BC again, with TT or in general, do I know if he's hungry. Would you suggest a feed or just soothe him and attempts to sleep him again? I try to sleep back again but he takes awhile and I'm successful a few times but w the toddler I don't always have that time.

So he is touchy and my oldest was too. Less was more and walking away as u said too! Long sleep routines didn't help and baby massages stimulated him! Pu/PD too once upon a time.
Fabi






Offline *Ali*

  • Breast Feeding & Pregnancy/Childbirth
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 373
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 22302
  • Caught in the act!
  • Location: London uk
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2016, 12:21:24 pm »
Mine always slept on their backs and I did the pat on the front of one hip. I never rolled them on their sides at all. I used to do it that way in the car seat too. Some babies need the shh pat varying a bit. You can just hold your hand on them or rub a little instead of the pat. You can sing, whisper, hum or such instead of the shh. I also used to do the shh pat while holding them in a cradle hold. I'd use the hand at the foot end to pat their bottoms. My fingers and top of the palm did the patting while the ball of the same hand supported their weight. The main thing is that the touch and sound distract them and you can transfer it to cot.

If you think the TT is affecting feeding them I'd definitely look into it more. It isn't something they always grow out of so it might be ok but it may affect eating solid foods or speech when he is older if you leave it now.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2016, 13:09:13 pm »
Thanks Ali!

Would that help to get them "drowsy" or was it just a method used to soothe them?

I'll look into the TT?
Fabi






Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2016, 14:38:56 pm »
Another thing I learned about TT is that some LOs can have quite prominent ties but without affecting feeding, whilst others can have really subtle ones (e.g. Submucosal and/or posterior) but in some cases these can cause significant feeding issues. If you can see a lactation consultant or infant feeding specialist (for example) who specialises in TT then they should be able to advise you. Of course it's still completely up to you whether or not you go for the procedure, we muddled through until around 3mo, undiagnosed, but I think younger is advised wherever possible. Yes they cry, although tbh I think a lot of it is to do with being restrained, judging by my DD's reaction to being examined. The procedure itself is over in a fraction of a second, although we did do the twice daily wound massage, which was uncomfortable for her but really recommended to avoid recurrence. An advantage to doing it younger would be that you need to BF every 2-3h round the clock for the first few days afterwards, so at 3mo that was a backwards step, but probably little different to what most 1mo LOs do anyway. Also younger LOs tend to be quicker to re-learn how to feed effectively. Anyway, that's my penny's worth, no pressure, just thought it might be helpful for you to hear from someone who's been through it :)



Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2016, 15:31:41 pm »
Thank you trimbler! I'll have to see into it more :)
Fabi






Offline *Ali*

  • Breast Feeding & Pregnancy/Childbirth
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 373
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 22302
  • Caught in the act!
  • Location: London uk
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2016, 20:53:51 pm »
Mine would fall asleep completely that way if I kept doing it long enough so yes it would get them drowsy.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2016, 21:32:55 pm »
That's great! It alerts mine more :o

He enjoys a forehead caress as he eats and makes him drowsy and help if OS! I've tried that before with a paci... Does NOT want it. Being held and actually a good firm pat on his bum does the trick at times in cradle hold as well, like you described. I normall rock at first then stop and end with just a pat to just holding him still. I hold him quite a bit before I transfer though. He uses paci to relax (spits out and at times prefers it out..depends how OS/OT he is) or we take it out and he sleeps fine. Won't find the need for it.

Additionally, when short naps occurred (20/30, 45mins) ...would you nurse even though you may have just fed an hour ago? (A times being so short) ... I ask because I can never tell... He looks like he wants to eat but he does use sucking a lot for comfort too- so I never really know! Sometimes I do paci and try to help again to sleep (in arms) but if he doesn't by 15-20 I stop as I have the toddler and attempt for distractions until I try again.
Fabi






Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2016, 22:31:53 pm »
Oh and on that note:

When/if he wakes during those hours (4-5 am) ...I do feed and he eats SOMEWHAT well (depending if it's 1st or second feed) ....I normally have an issue getting him to sleep... Well, put down and STAY asleep.. He usually won't eat at the start of the day (I would preferably like 7am WU time. 8am as a plus ;))

What happens to his EASY when he won't eat at the "start" of his day?

Also, with those nights that he won't stay back to sleep, when/how do I go about his first nap? He's OT come 7am sometimes... Even 6:30am. How would that work. See what happens is sometimes depending the night before (he's going through his period of fussy LONG evenings before he actually falls for the night) he will either pass out by 9ish pm and others by 11pm (bad nights can go up to 12-1am!) ...he slept yesterday from 11-6am and went back to sleep by 7:15 or so. I put back down because, isn't it suppose to be a 12hr night? (Correct me if I'm wrong) so I figured he still was on his "night sleep" ....I got him up for the day at 7... But would 6 have been the WU time? If not, how would I do the feed- he doesn't take much at WU time.

I've noticed he can last 3 hours without a feed. I know because I've tried at times within 2 hours and he won't eat much. Assuming a good long nap, he can do 3.5/4 from start feed to nap WU. Although I wake at 3 because of supply just in case
Fabi






Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2016, 15:20:13 pm »
On another note:
Rocking is less as I've found caressing him on his forehead and paci soothes him! Good for transition later ❤️
Fabi






Offline *Ali*

  • Breast Feeding & Pregnancy/Childbirth
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 373
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 22302
  • Caught in the act!
  • Location: London uk
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2016, 19:42:35 pm »
I'd just follow his lead with timings of feeds and sleeps right now. He is still figuring it all out. Many babies aren't on a 7-7 night just yet. If he isn't hungry when he wakes I'd wait half an hour and then try. During the day you can let him go a bit longer now between feeds if you are having to wake him. Up to 4hrs should be fine if he is sleeping. Following his cues more might help you see his natural patterns.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2016, 21:40:25 pm »
It seems every time he wakes he's hungry. When he short naps, he's just so upset and hard to soothe.

I agree with 7-7! I actually just made a post about it in NW section! Maybe you can help me Ali :)

Lately, he's been thinking his BT is around 7-8. He's been having better longer sleep in the afternoons. If I let him his NWs throw us off. He wakes and wants to stay up, or start his day at 4-5am WHEN I let him fall asleep at 7pm.. Maybe a day and night confusion? But, I wanted to somehow extend his BT but he won't do the CNs in the afternoons. So I have to wake him. DF nvr worked! Threw him off :/

But at 4-5 am he's up for the day, eats... But come a normal wake up like 7am he's not hungry and he's been in such light sleep from 4-7am.. He's not morning napping and I end up having to skip it because it takes FOREVER and my other one has school to get ready for. At times he wakes at 6 but is falling asleep.

I was wondering how to go about a later BT since he typically has 5/7 hour stretches (lately 4 hrs only probably because his bad no napping days and maybe why he sleeps so long at nights but I end up waking him to feed and it cuts him short. Hence, super OT, bad night)
Fabi






Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2016, 21:42:52 pm »
Hope I make sense! 😂
Fabi






Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2016, 12:14:54 pm »
I wonder if perhaps he isn't really hungry when he short naps, and feeding him every time is throwing things off? Maybe try stretching him a little during the day and see if that helps with naps and feeding.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2016, 15:45:09 pm »
Clazzat! I've missed you ;)

That could be true... So if he doesn't settle, which is almost always, just distract him until we try again? How long before I attempt again? It's just all thrown off tbh? The feeds :(

I have an issue w/ our morning feedings too! His WU time is rarely 7am... He more like starts his day or wants to by 5-6am. He sleeps super light if at all... Grunting etc. I get us up for the day by 7 but he's not hungry so he won't eat and come 7am he's actually already OT. I've tried to put back down when he wakes at 5-6am and he falls asleep right away while nursing-- but if I set down elsewhere he wakes and/or stays asleep but lightly. So it's throwing off our mornings. I end up feeding before a nap b/c he didn't get a good feed at WU....and by then he also won't eat as well b/c he's OT and falls asleep. We've also been skipping his first morning nap :/ ...not ideal but by the time I try he takes up to an hour to get him to sleep, but wakes. (OT/OS with toddler) I have a toddler to get fed and school in the mornings and I just can't take the time so I just distract him a lot or have him crying OT w/ me there while getting things done. The struggle isn't worth it. I'm also feeling that way about the rest of his naps bc he's taking so long and my other one can't be left unattended for an hour or so that it takes him to sleep. I feel if it takes me more than 20 mins, I give up and keep him up again distracted and try later...please help :(

Yesterday he was so OT his first nap wasn't until 4pm! A car ride snooze before then but super short (car rides don't work much for him) then we tried a CN again in the car w/ no success tried an hour for BT which ended up by 9pm but slept straight 6 hrs.

Help our morning feeds and EASY w/ these feeds. It was structured somewhat but now the mornings and naps have us all off.
Fabi






Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2016, 16:03:39 pm »
I might try feeding when he wakes at 4-5 and then sleep with him until 7. Then you can feed at 7 and start your day a bit more predictably. He is still so little it's more important that he gets enough sleep than that it happens perfectly - not going to sleep until 4pm is going to mess with anything you try to do, so ap'ing is your only option.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2016, 18:24:04 pm »
Right understood.... I do AP but he takes so long and I just give up after 20 mins bc the toddler and try a bit later. Especially in the mornings, when I'm so busy, kwim?

I'll go ahead and try that in the early mornings. He only takes from one side, is that ok for my supply for the other one? I offer it but he won't eat. What if he doesn't stay asleep until 7? Even in bed? I have found myself putting down for his nap as early as 7am at times.

Do you have any advice for the naps and my other toddler. Baby just takes hours to settle and actually fall asleep/stay asleep when PD. I try 20 mins with AP but he's a touchy baby with sleep it seems so it can take a bit
Fabi






Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2016, 20:53:08 pm »
In my experience if a touchy baby is taking that long to settle then you have missed the sleep window - I had to watch the clock with my touchy one as if I saw any sleepy cues then it was too late to get her down.

In the mornings if he is still not really settling with you and is sleepy at 7 then I would go ahead and put him down for a nap but keep it short to try to work on the routine.  If he is very tired then a catnap from 7-7.30 then you will probably find that he is still ready for another nap at 8.30/9 and hopefully things can fall into place a bit better then.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2016, 23:35:04 pm »
Thanks for the suggestion! I appreciate the help!

Question: why would this be a CN? Or two if need be? How would that work by waking him? And how does it plan out throughout the day? Sorry I'm just trying to understand :) how would the feeds work? (Questions questions questions ha!) ;)

I normally like to hold for the 20 mins so I can PD easier too. But I'll keep an eye out. He does pretty good awake considering he's OT/OS. He just hangs out but come getting him down to nap it does get tricky! I try not to go over the hour...! Sometimes it's hard napping every.single.hour with my toddler so I just call it a day and try a bit later.. Or do the stroller b/c I can't be bound to each nap! The mornings and his WUs need more tweaking! I never know his actual WU times too. We are in the same room but I've caught him just awake sometimes hanging out before he cries to call me... ::)
Fabi






Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2016, 16:05:53 pm »
Back again! I have another question about BF and AP...

I wonder if any other moms have run into this and if so, suggestions would be wonderful!

So, my baby is 9 weeks old. I'm always unsure if he's hungry or not. We do follow EAS, but b/c of this, when he short naps... I feel he expects and just wants to be fed or given then breast. So sometimes he's being offered the breast/feed every hour? Which I know he doesn't need and can be an issue when changing to 3.5-4 hr feeds which he will be coming up on here shortly. It's pretty difficult to soothe after a short nap and there are days I just skip resettling (I have a toddler in the house) ...but then our eating patterns are thrown off. I find myself feeding before a nap and sometimes after the nap... He doesn't really need to eat and I can tell-- but as soon as he's off he's so upset.

He is a strong sucker. He does need a paci to settle for sleep... But never to stay asleep. (Spits it out/removed) ....but I'm stuck b/c I think all he wants is to comfort suck all day. After every nap too-- he normally never wakes happy.. And then he's constantly rooting. He's wetting and passing stools accurately.

Is there some suggestions to help soothe him besides the breast? I feel he's always upset with me when I don't and having him in my arms makes it worse as he can smell me I assume? If I put down its worse. I think he's gotten used to the routine of "eating" after WU times... And he's not even hungry. But won't stop till he gets it. As if this is all that soothes him... Anyone run into this issue with EAS? Other ways of comfort? My husband easily comforts him so I feel I'm the issue here :-/ ..he can smell me? That's my assumption.

I want a happy baby and I feel sometimes the breast is all he's used to and wants and that's ok by me but I think it messes with our EAS and routine and then I confuse him as he doesn't know what's next?

Help? :/
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 16:07:44 pm by FPT23 »
Fabi






Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2016, 19:45:20 pm »
Just to add:

He's very underweight. Went to his 2 month visit... :(
I am getting super discouraged :(
It's been far from pleasant this entire experience :-/
Fabi






Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2016, 20:27:30 pm »
Aw (((hugs))) that's hard :-\ Did the doc give you any advice with the weight gain? Is he just within the range of normal, or were they concerned? Sorry, I can't remember whether the reflux is medicated? If not, did you discuss that today? I just know it made such a huge difference to my DD getting her on ranitidine for the reflux and getting the TT sorted - as an aside, the TT clinic we attended had done some research on a correlation between reflux and TT, and had seen reflux symptoms improve after the TT division - still a tentative link, but interesting nonetheless. Anyway, I did wonder whether there might be an issue with milk transfer, given the weight issue? Also, the sucking can be soothing for reflux LOs, so getting that fully under control could help you to know when he's really hungry from when he wants to comfort suck. I think the general advice for reflux LOs is to feed little and often, which isn't quite EASY but might just be what he needs to do right now, at least until symptoms improve :-*



Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2016, 21:02:52 pm »
Thank u :(

He doesn't have intense reflux. As it turns out that bad breath was only temporary so it might have been an intolerance. I think he just has the normal stuff...

Yeah it's a bit discouraging :(
And yes the issue is milk transfer. This was established after a meeting with a consultant and I fed him and they were weighing him after. We had been feeding over and hour and he barely transferred but this was at like 3 weeks old. I was certain things had improved!!

:(
Fabi






Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2016, 20:02:26 pm »
(((Hugs))) can you see a lactation consultant where you are?



Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2016, 21:02:18 pm »
Ive seen 101 of them!! I just came back from another one.... We'll see what happens thank you :(
Fabi






Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2016, 13:15:35 pm »
(((Hugs)))



Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2016, 16:21:35 pm »
Sorry I haven't been around for a while, and sorry to hear that things aren't going well.

When you say that he is underweight, what exactly do you mean? Is there a genuine medical concern about his weight gain (ie failure to thrive) or is it just that he is not putting on weight at the same rate as he was? My ds started out on the 90th percentile but by 4 months he was on the 8th. I was fortunate that I was confident that he was doing fine (the joy of being on my third!) and having a really good health visitor who looked at him and was satisfied that he was thriving. You say that he has plenty of wet and dirty nappies, so there is a good chance that he is getting enough, so I would suggest that you look at him objectively (without considering his weight) and ask yourself whether you think he is developing the way he is supposed to - and if he is, then try to relax about the feeding. Some babies do drop from their early curve - my oldest has also plummeted down the charts - without it being an issue.

Wrt to reflux, two of mine were refluxers, both officially mild refluxers, but the difference once they were on meds was startling. I think it is easy to underestimate how distressing even mild discomfort can be for them, so I would follow up on getting some sort of meds to gauge how much difference that makes. Dd2 was fine with gaviscon, which is just a thickener rather than an antacid, but she did still really need it.  I would venture to suggest that trying to solve anything else while there is a possibility that reflux is causing discomfort is a bit futile.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2016, 16:33:46 pm »
Clazzat! I've missed you around as you were a good help to me in the earlier days  :-*

Well weight has always been an issue. He's 9% ... I was disappointed as I thought we had this down already.... :(
As far as developmentally- I know all babies reach milestones at different times but our dr told us by 4 months our goal is to have him roll from tummy to back. I know 2 backed around his age who already can and he can't. He is quite petite. He is holding his head up better each time though. I went to yet another lactation consultant yesterday and the latch is well, supply is well... Guess he can't transfer well enough. TBH it has been nothing but stress and struggle breast feeding and it makes me rather sad. I'm holding on but it's been nothing problems and it's getting very discouraging as I had hoped it would get easier by almost 3 months here soon... Last night he woke every 2-3 hrs (super unlike him!) and he was pooping constantly. Normal BF stools though. So who knows what's happening in there.... :(

As far as reflux, I think it was an intolerance atm. I think he's had minor reflux but nothing excessive to where I feel it should be medicated. I think it's the norm. I guess b/c my first was BAD with reflux? But the bad breath was only momentarily! It went away... And it was the first time too! I think he wasn't a fan of something in my diet...
Fabi






Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2016, 19:25:55 pm »
Has he always been at 9%? If so, chances are that's just his natural size. Or has he actually been losing weight? Would you mind describing how a feed usually goes? Ie does he seem hungry to start with, does he make noises whilst feeding, can you hear him swallow, does he take long gulps or spend much of the time doing small comfort sucks? Do you feel your breasts get emptier during the feed? Do you offer both sides? If he fusses, is he doing high pitched screams like it hurts, or does he turn away to look around, or does he seem impatient? Do you have a forceful letdown? Or a slow/delayed one? I'm no expert but perhaps if you described what his feeding is like then someone will have a thought. I'm sure you'd discussed all this with the LCs anyway - what is their opinion? Were they concerned at all, did they give you any particular advice? :-*



Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2016, 21:11:45 pm »
2 of mine didn't roll at all, and one didn't roll back to front until he was nearly 10 months! He could actually crawl before he could roll!  My point being that you can't really set goals for them to achieve by a certain age as they do all do things differently and often in different orders - ds has always had much better fine motor skills and little interest in gross motor which means that he has often looked "behind" because he is not as interested in practicing gross motor skills.

I would say that rather than looking for him mastering a particular skill you would be better to look at the overall picture - is he contented, is he responding to you, is he interested in the world around him? Those things are more significant - and noticeably absent in a baby who is genuinely not thriving - than whether or not he can do something that "other babies his age" can do. It is also entirely possible, if he is on the small side, that he is going to take longer to develop the musculature that means he can do these things - that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong.

What I'm trying to get at is that everything else you say suggests to me that he is doing okay with feeding - good latch, good supply, plenty of wet and dirty nappies - and I am concerned that you are worrying unnecessarily simply because he is small. Some babies have to be - that's how the charts have to work, with some at the top and some at the bottom. In my experience there are a lot of health professionals who feel that they have to intervene with small babies and there isn't always a reason to do so. Try to trust your instincts on how he is doing, and don't assume that bf'ing isn't working just because he is small.

At 9 weeks my first thought for the fussiness and the NWs would be OT - they need so much sleep, and when you don't have time to resettle because of the older one they fall into an OT loop really quickly. It is also very easy to assume that they are hungry when they wake up tired because they do give a lot of hungry cues. Are you able to put him down for his naps a bit earlier to see if that will help him sleep longer? Another thing you could try is holding him through the jolts - it's not something that I ever did, but I think there is a sticky on it over on the sleep board.

Last point: if you are hating bf'ing, and it is making you stressed and you don't believe that it is working for your lo then don't feel that you have to continue - a happy healthy mum and a happy healthy baby are much more important than sticking to something that isn't working because you feel you have to.

Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2016, 21:40:53 pm »
Clazzat, thank you for your encouraging words <3 it's good to know about the rolling and crawling from your LO! Interesting!

The reason I specifically was talking physical milestones is b/c that is what his dr focused on when I went into his 2 month visit. I also stress the weight b/c this is from his dr. This wasn't a concern previously! I thought we had been doing good! --- but was disappointed after the visit when the dr told me all these things I am sad about on this post.

Yes it is probably impossible to not have an OT baby isn't it ;) I just need to wait it out until his A is a bit longer. He very well might be in that cycle your saying! Yes he seems hungry every time he wakes, and that was an initial question I once had and still do; when he EWs from a nap, having just fed, I find that having followed EASY he naturally assumes that he needs to feed and I'll have a hard time resettling. If it's 30 mins I TRYYYY to resettle other times I can't with the toddler and just need to distract him and try a bit later... If 45 mins later, I try and take out but all he wants to do is feed and gets upset. Then it seems only my husband can calm him-- so I wasn't sure what to do in those cases... I feel if I continue to do that we will never move forward to the 3-4 hr easy.. Which I know I needs to be transitioning soon into the 3 month time?


I don't hate breast feeding. I never really said that or feel I have to either... I'm more just sad and discouraged that it has been so hard for us and hasn't seemed to let up. I feel he's never satisfied after feeds- I never know if it's because he's hungry still (which after his visit, I feel bad thinking I misread him and he's been hungry all along) or because he's tired and just likes the comfort... It's quite confusing and after the visit it just made me feel a bit sad :( I really want to BF more than anything truly but it's been harder than the norm and it makes me feel bad is all
Fabi






Offline clazzat

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 286
  • Posts: 12883
  • Location: Kent, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2016, 18:40:54 pm »
Sorry - I misunderstood what you were saying about bf'ing. :-* I do still want to make the point, though, that if it turns out that it isn't right for your family then that is okay.

Wrt eating when he short-naps, I think that it might be a question of fixing the sleep rather than stressing about the eating. If you can find the magic a time then he might sleep longer for you and the issue will resolve itself. I'm not fantastic at routines,  so you might find that a post on the sleep board will get you some more experienced eyes. As a matter of curiosity, have you done the 'know your baby' quiz? I found it invaluable with dd2 and ds because I was able to factor their type into what I planned/expected and found it easier. For example, dd2 was touchy for sleep which meant firstly that she got os incredibly quickly and I had to make her a times much shorter than average for her age, and secondly that if I could see that she was tired then I was putting her down too late - I had to really clock-watch with her because her sleepy cues always came after she had missed the window for getting her down easily.

In the sorter term, I might try giving him the paci after he has fed to see if it is the comfort of sucking that he needs or whether it really is that he is still hungry. I might also try that if/when he wakes early from naps to see if you can fob him off! 😄

Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2016, 18:53:34 pm »
(((Hugs))) Totally agree about the small baby thing - I remember friends of mine whose doctor kept worrying them about their DD's small size, when, looking at her parents, it was pretty obvious why she was below the curves - they were both quite petite themselves and their baby was absolutely fine :)

Just wondering about that 'never feeling satisfied' after feeds - what makes you think that? What makes you think that he just wants to comfort suck rather than actually feed? If reflux is an issue, he may find it soothing to suck slowly - I know my DS did (DD, on the other hand, was just really reluctant to feed at all as it was uncomfortable), so investigating reflux meds could help him so that he doesn't have to suck to feel comfortable. I realise that with a toddler you don't want to be tied to a long feed if possible. DS would stay on there for more than an hour at a time and I just let him as I didn't know any different and didn't see a problem, other than of course OT ;) Alternatively, it may be that TT is making his feeding inefficient, so that he is genuinely still hungry when you think he must have finished. Do you take him off the breast after a certain length of time has passed, or does he come off himself? Does he bring up wind easily? My DS would keep coming off the breast as a NB but still seem hungry, turned out he was just swallowing a bit of air and needed to burp - once he'd done that he was back on for a good while longer and settled much better afterwards.

Or - are you saying he's unsatsfied after a feed because he seems hungry after a short nap? Tbh if he does seem hungry, don't feel that you have to stretch him, it may just be that he hasn't had enough milk from his previous feed to get him through - which may be 'fixed' by encouraging/allowing him to feed more during his first feed, or, it may be that he just can't take on any more at a time than he already is, or, your breasts may just have a smaller storage capacity than some other mums, which may mean that you'll always have to feed a bit more often, but as A times get longer you can get around that with top-up feeds before naps, so he doesn't wake hungry.

I'm sorry I think I've been rambling a lot and since I don't even know your answers to my questions at the beginning, much of what I've said may be completely irrelevant...but food for thought, perhaps, as you weigh it all up? Just don't forget, you know him best, whatever the doc/LC/BW people say, try to trust your mummy instincts when it comes to BF :-*

Posted with you, clazzat - we're already chatting on NWs ;)



Offline FPT23

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: United States
Re: Nursing & AP?
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2016, 19:47:53 pm »
Thank you Clazzat! Your too sweet thanks for your help! It's no worries. I'm sure my frustration maybe made it seem that way.
I know the pressure to BF is real sometimes! Yk, in the beginning when we had the hardest time, I did feel it wasn't right for our family- and it was making me more unhappy than not. I finally felt I have crossed that bridge and I truly want to continue, at least until solids begin or the recommended first 6 months of his life. Plus it's easier ;) ...and giving his little body formula so early scares me as with my first it totally messed him up! I haaaaated formula! So there's that! Even though he was formula fed after while, he was just a mess with reflux and consumption and we tried 100 formulas... Super hard. Intimidates me to start early! At least make it to where his tummy is a bit more developed is my plan!

I sure have took the quiz and he's a touchy baby for sleep only. He seems textbook for the rest. I am currently going through wind down changes as he's fighting our arms/swaddle or something! I just successfully got him down from his crib. Less is more with him. My first too. Touchy/textbook as well! ;) I do notice my baby I have to watch the clock a bit but he handles OS/OT well, considering. It takes him awhile before he actually cries. He's most unsettled right after nap wakes (short or long) ...but it could be a number of reasons and I'm trying to figure out here w some of the helpful suggestions. I appreciate you! :)

My darling Trimbler,
Your a god send- thanks for so much help! My husband and I are not petite BUT, his family is! We were discussing that so he might just be petite. Time will tell. I plan to have him checked at 3 months, just to weigh in...

I feel he's never satisfied after because he ALMOST ALWAYS fusses right after he's off the breast! Like he's never content. I feel he wants to comfort suck b/c he's not really eating or "gulping" after awhile. He just sucks... And tries to doze off. And your 100% spot on with being tied down to feeds with my toddler. I thought I was done with that phase as it was so hard on us before- he would take years ;) ...so that's another reason I got discouraged after the dr b/c it's so hard to go back to that, Yk? I do take him off once I see he's falling asleep or not eating- i do also burp and attempt again on the other side or continue the same one if I felt he hadn't ate enough from that side. Yes he pulls off sometimes like he's done and just does not want it... But fusses. If I get him on again somehow he just doses off so that why I say OT or tired from TT.

What I'm saying is, after a short nap it seems he just wants to eat. He never wakes happy or content- and I wonder if he's just used to EAS and just expects to be placed on to eat.

Your not rambling! I enjoy and need all the talks I can get! It's been helping me a lot to get by too <3 just to chat a bit even xoxo!!!
Fabi