Nursing & AP?

[clazzat]

My first thought would probably be OT for a 30 min nap, particularly if he is getting very tired from feeding. It can also be os from having an older sibling around - a big problem for my dd2 - which can be addressed with slightly shorter a times. I found that a times were not terribly predictable for dd2 at this stage, although generally her first a of the day was incredibly short and they got longer as the day went on. I would probably play around with times for a bit to see if you can hit a sweet spot. As you say, of course, it all changes frequently at this point so you might not have that much luck.

Slight aside, but when we put dd2 in a cot we put books under the legs at the head of it so that it was at a slight incline - helped with her reflux.

[FPT23]

Trimbler,
Thanks for joining! Well his TT isn't awful but his dr said he is TT. I'm nervous to do it and preferred not to. He also said it wasn't BAAAD to where he felt he HAD to. So I just went with it!

Clazzat,
Did DD2 always need shorter than average A times b/c of the sibling? (something to keep in mind!) Yes well now that you mention it, my son was all over him this morning ...dancing and getting him to dance and all in his face haha! But baby didn't act OS, or bothered in the least- smiling even! So I just let it happen and getting him down wasn't much of a struggle-- when I fed him he passed out? But I did have to cover his eyes as they were pretty open. He was fairly content and happy once I soothed him. He slept well last night so who knows! I suspect a growth spurt as he's been eating a lot... I attempted the next nap and he slept almost 3 hours? It's all crazy... But  I always figured the first A time is normally the shortest right? If I remember correctly... But then I remember extending it later as it caused early wakes! ....but either way I am mindful of A times... Even though short naps are/can be developmental and unavoidable.. But something to help with if it is! Question w/ feedings: during short naps, like 30 mins for example, I feed only BC again, with TT or in general, do I know if he's hungry. Would you suggest a feed or just soothe him and attempts to sleep him again? I try to sleep back again but he takes awhile and I'm successful a few times but w the toddler I don't always have that time.

So he is touchy and my oldest was too. Less was more and walking away as u said too! Long sleep routines didn't help and baby massages stimulated him! Pu/PD too once upon a time.

[*Ali*]

Mine always slept on their backs and I did the pat on the front of one hip. I never rolled them on their sides at all. I used to do it that way in the car seat too. Some babies need the shh pat varying a bit. You can just hold your hand on them or rub a little instead of the pat. You can sing, whisper, hum or such instead of the shh. I also used to do the shh pat while holding them in a cradle hold. I'd use the hand at the foot end to pat their bottoms. My fingers and top of the palm did the patting while the ball of the same hand supported their weight. The main thing is that the touch and sound distract them and you can transfer it to cot.

If you think the TT is affecting feeding them I'd definitely look into it more. It isn't something they always grow out of so it might be ok but it may affect eating solid foods or speech when he is older if you leave it now.

[FPT23]

Thanks Ali!

Would that help to get them "drowsy" or was it just a method used to soothe them?

I'll look into the TT?

[trimbler]

Another thing I learned about TT is that some LOs can have quite prominent ties but without affecting feeding, whilst others can have really subtle ones (e.g. Submucosal and/or posterior) but in some cases these can cause significant feeding issues. If you can see a lactation consultant or infant feeding specialist (for example) who specialises in TT then they should be able to advise you. Of course it's still completely up to you whether or not you go for the procedure, we muddled through until around 3mo, undiagnosed, but I think younger is advised wherever possible. Yes they cry, although tbh I think a lot of it is to do with being restrained, judging by my DD's reaction to being examined. The procedure itself is over in a fraction of a second, although we did do the twice daily wound massage, which was uncomfortable for her but really recommended to avoid recurrence. An advantage to doing it younger would be that you need to BF every 2-3h round the clock for the first few days afterwards, so at 3mo that was a backwards step, but probably little different to what most 1mo LOs do anyway. Also younger LOs tend to be quicker to re-learn how to feed effectively. Anyway, that's my penny's worth, no pressure, just thought it might be helpful for you to hear from someone who's been through it

[FPT23]

Thank you trimbler! I'll have to see into it more

[*Ali*]

Mine would fall asleep completely that way if I kept doing it long enough so yes it would get them drowsy.

[FPT23]

That's great! It alerts mine more

He enjoys a forehead caress as he eats and makes him drowsy and help if OS! I've tried that before with a paci... Does NOT want it. Being held and actually a good firm pat on his bum does the trick at times in cradle hold as well, like you described. I normall rock at first then stop and end with just a pat to just holding him still. I hold him quite a bit before I transfer though. He uses paci to relax (spits out and at times prefers it out..depends how OS/OT he is) or we take it out and he sleeps fine. Won't find the need for it.

Additionally, when short naps occurred (20/30, 45mins) ...would you nurse even though you may have just fed an hour ago? (A times being so short) ... I ask because I can never tell... He looks like he wants to eat but he does use sucking a lot for comfort too- so I never really know! Sometimes I do paci and try to help again to sleep (in arms) but if he doesn't by 15-20 I stop as I have the toddler and attempt for distractions until I try again.

[FPT23]

Oh and on that note:

When/if he wakes during those hours (4-5 am) ...I do feed and he eats SOMEWHAT well (depending if it's 1st or second feed) ....I normally have an issue getting him to sleep... Well, put down and STAY asleep.. He usually won't eat at the start of the day (I would preferably like 7am WU time. 8am as a plus )

What happens to his EASY when he won't eat at the "start" of his day?

Also, with those nights that he won't stay back to sleep, when/how do I go about his first nap? He's OT come 7am sometimes... Even 6:30am. How would that work. See what happens is sometimes depending the night before (he's going through his period of fussy LONG evenings before he actually falls for the night) he will either pass out by 9ish pm and others by 11pm (bad nights can go up to 12-1am!) ...he slept yesterday from 11-6am and went back to sleep by 7:15 or so. I put back down because, isn't it suppose to be a 12hr night? (Correct me if I'm wrong) so I figured he still was on his "night sleep" ....I got him up for the day at 7... But would 6 have been the WU time? If not, how would I do the feed- he doesn't take much at WU time.

I've noticed he can last 3 hours without a feed. I know because I've tried at times within 2 hours and he won't eat much. Assuming a good long nap, he can do 3.5/4 from start feed to nap WU. Although I wake at 3 because of supply just in case

[FPT23]

On another note:
Rocking is less as I've found caressing him on his forehead and paci soothes him! Good for transition later ❤️

[*Ali*]

I'd just follow his lead with timings of feeds and sleeps right now. He is still figuring it all out. Many babies aren't on a 7-7 night just yet. If he isn't hungry when he wakes I'd wait half an hour and then try. During the day you can let him go a bit longer now between feeds if you are having to wake him. Up to 4hrs should be fine if he is sleeping. Following his cues more might help you see his natural patterns.

[FPT23]

It seems every time he wakes he's hungry. When he short naps, he's just so upset and hard to soothe.

I agree with 7-7! I actually just made a post about it in NW section! Maybe you can help me Ali

Lately, he's been thinking his BT is around 7-8. He's been having better longer sleep in the afternoons. If I let him his NWs throw us off. He wakes and wants to stay up, or start his day at 4-5am WHEN I let him fall asleep at 7pm.. Maybe a day and night confusion? But, I wanted to somehow extend his BT but he won't do the CNs in the afternoons. So I have to wake him. DF nvr worked! Threw him off :/

But at 4-5 am he's up for the day, eats... But come a normal wake up like 7am he's not hungry and he's been in such light sleep from 4-7am.. He's not morning napping and I end up having to skip it because it takes FOREVER and my other one has school to get ready for. At times he wakes at 6 but is falling asleep.

I was wondering how to go about a later BT since he typically has 5/7 hour stretches (lately 4 hrs only probably because his bad no napping days and maybe why he sleeps so long at nights but I end up waking him to feed and it cuts him short. Hence, super OT, bad night)

[FPT23]

Hope I make sense! 😂

[clazzat]

I wonder if perhaps he isn't really hungry when he short naps, and feeding him every time is throwing things off? Maybe try stretching him a little during the day and see if that helps with naps and feeding.

[FPT23]

Clazzat! I've missed you

That could be true... So if he doesn't settle, which is almost always, just distract him until we try again? How long before I attempt again? It's just all thrown off tbh? The feeds

I have an issue w/ our morning feedings too! His WU time is rarely 7am... He more like starts his day or wants to by 5-6am. He sleeps super light if at all... Grunting etc. I get us up for the day by 7 but he's not hungry so he won't eat and come 7am he's actually already OT. I've tried to put back down when he wakes at 5-6am and he falls asleep right away while nursing-- but if I set down elsewhere he wakes and/or stays asleep but lightly. So it's throwing off our mornings. I end up feeding before a nap b/c he didn't get a good feed at WU....and by then he also won't eat as well b/c he's OT and falls asleep. We've also been skipping his first morning nap :/ ...not ideal but by the time I try he takes up to an hour to get him to sleep, but wakes. (OT/OS with toddler) I have a toddler to get fed and school in the mornings and I just can't take the time so I just distract him a lot or have him crying OT w/ me there while getting things done. The struggle isn't worth it. I'm also feeling that way about the rest of his naps bc he's taking so long and my other one can't be left unattended for an hour or so that it takes him to sleep. I feel if it takes me more than 20 mins, I give up and keep him up again distracted and try later...please help

Yesterday he was so OT his first nap wasn't until 4pm! A car ride snooze before then but super short (car rides don't work much for him) then we tried a CN again in the car w/ no success tried an hour for BT which ended up by 9pm but slept straight 6 hrs.

Help our morning feeds and EASY w/ these feeds. It was structured somewhat but now the mornings and naps have us all off.