PU/PD spirited baby advice please!

[Babypantha]

We have just started PU/PD with our 6 month old because he was bf'd to sleep and would not sleep more than 45mins on his own. I held him for all naps and he slept in my bed. He is now too heavy to hold and had started waking every hour in the night and I got into the habit of bf him every hour to get him back to sleep.
We are on day 3 and not seeing much progress.. Specific problems include
1. Startling awake: he will just drift off but then startle awake which happened over and over, maybe 40times in 1.5hrs last night. So now we are moving him into his front once he quietens down but worried this might become another dependency on us. We don't want to hold his hands down as we figured this would be another prop. Anyone had similar? Is like he's too scared to fall asleep but we have never left him crying.
2. It can sometimes take up to 1.5hrs of PU/PD and he will wake after a few minutes. Sometimes this is due to the startling but not always. Once he's awake, carrying on with PU/PD has never been successful at getting him back to sleep ; we always end up going to the next nap.
3. He now cries as soon as we start the winddown routine and is screaming by the time his sleeping bag is on so we are never able to start off putting him in the crib calm. We are worried we are making him scared of sleeping although as soon as the curtains are open and sleeping bag is off he's back to smiles and playing.

The bw book says spirited babies can take longer for pu/pd to work - but it will definitely work??

Here's what happened yesterday (day 2 of PU /PD; lo is exclusively bf):
7:00 awake feed play
9:40-10:25 pupd but no sleep
10:30-10:45 feed
10:45-11:00 pupd
11:00-11:25 sleep
11:25-11:55 pupd but no sleep
11:55 change, play
12:45-13:00 feed
13:15-14:00 pupd but no sleep
14:00-15:00 play
15:00-16:30 nap in pram to try and get back on track for evening
16:30 feed, play
17:30 feed
18:15 ready for bed
18:30 feed
18:45-19:30 pupd
19:30-20:10 sleep
20:10-20:55 pupd
20:55-21:10 sleep
21:10-22:20 pupd, startled the whole time, only picked up a few times as a hand on him put him back to sleep every time
22:20 change, cuddle, feed, no pupd required as very sleepy after feed
23:00 -1:30 sleep
1:30 woke hysterical, as he really wants to be asleep, calmed him down
1:50-2:05 pupd, put him on his front once he quietened
2:05-3:40 sleep
3:40-4:10 feed, very drowsy no pupd needed
4:10-4:20 sleep
4:20-4:50 pupd, put him on his front once he quietened
4:50-6:35 sleep

I guess what we really want to know, is if anyone has any similar experiences of pupd with a spirited baby and have any advice. Is there anything different we could be doing? We only hold him for max 2 minutes or until he quietens if it's sooner than this. I tend to give him a bit of time crying in his crib each time as it takes him a minute or so to calm down as he is very angry when we put him down, so as to avoid holding him too much. We are struggling to time awake time as we are always starting with an overtired baby.

Any advice or experiences at all would be most appreciated.

TIA

[becj86]

Hi, welcome to BW

I found PUPD too stimulating for my spirited DS, I found a modification of shush/pat worked better for him, I sang instead of shushing and held my hand on his chest instead of patting.

At 6 months with a spirited baby, I'd probably work on A time of 3hr and tweak from there. Has he had a routine before? Did he sleep >45min when sleeping on you? Just trying to work out if you're trying to set his body clock and train him to sleep at the same time.

I understand he's never slept in the crib before? If so, he may need some fun A time there when he's not expected to sleep so he's not associating it with upset every time you walk in there. Usually its best to do that in the middle of A time, so its not near sleep times.

[Fifilottie]

My DS also found PUPD too stimulating. He also  woke up a bit startled quite quickly after sleep when PUPD actually put him to sleep on the rare occasions. I did a version of shh patt instead. I shushed and held his legs,he kicked a lot, and  I stroked his chest. I don't know why but that worked.

[Babypantha]

Thank you both, yes I think we are realising that it is too stimulating for our boy too. We managed last night to lay him on his front instead which has helped with the startling.
We tried to stick to 3hrs awake time today and he went down quite easily for both naps - feels like a miracle!
He hasn't really been in a strict routine so we are hoping that week get better with sorting his sleep out.
When he slept on us he could go for a few hours but he would still stir and we'd have to get up quick and start swaying so he didn't wake up properly.
We have spent some time today in the bedroom in daylight just playing in our next to crib to get him more used to it, which I think has convinced me he's not scared of it, just not yet used to being left alone to sleep.

[Fifilottie]

As a hand on him seemed to help I would go with what you are doing. Patience goes a long way in helping them sleep. Just knowing your thereto shhh or help when they want to sleep will only harbour good sleep associations. Happy to sleep, in my experience( which isn't much) , surely is key. Let me know how it is going. Hugs x

[Babypantha]

Hi
Just wanted to report back that it took around 4-5 days but I can now put lo in crib awake and walk away and he will go to sleep by himself! It's truly amazing, sometimes he'll start making his self settling noises as soon as we put his sleeping bag on! Other times we need 1-3 pupds which is nothing more than keeping him calm and getting him in the mood for sleep. We have also noticed he sleeps better in his pram and no longer cries in the car as he will just go to sleep now if he's tired. Absolutely amazing, still can't believe it! One of the big helps was putting him on his front to settle - against guidelines but it's perfect for him.
Thanks for your help! Xx

[becj86]

Wonderful Keep watching for signs that he needs a touch more A time (taking longer to settle, fighting naps, naps getting shorter <1:20, etc.) and you should be golden for a while.

I know you know putting LO on his front is against guidelines - of course its important to watch him while he's on his front. Once he's able to roll both ways and he knows he likes to sleep on his front, you may find if you put him in on his back, he'll roll and that's fine.