9 month old erratic naps

[Mum2lucy]

Hiya,

I had a post in night waking which seemed to resolve itself and now has returned with a 5.30am wake up. Anyway I'm dealing with this but her naps have gone wonky again.

Can someone cast an eye over her easy to see if you can see anything?

She was doing a big nap in the morning and a shorter pm nap and this was fine but when the am nap goes wrong, the day tends to go wrong. She doesn't really show tired signs until she is overtired. My morning nap has gone wonky so my days are off too.

Sunday:

Fed 05.50
Wu: 06.20
A
S 9.50 - 11.20
E
A
S 14.50 - 15.35
Bt 6.45

Yesterday was:

E: 5.30
Wu: 7.10
A
S 10.40 - 11.10 (30mins)
E
A
S 14.25 - 15.05 (40mins)
E
A
EBt 18.30 due to poor naps

Slept 18.30 - 05.30, fed, wu 7.25

Today

Wu 7.25
A
S 10.53 - 11.33 (40mins)

I'm wondering how Sunday and days before can be over an hour and then it suddenly becomes 30/40mins naps. Do you think a needs pushed? She has been teething but it's settled just now.
She settles independently for naps. I've never been able to work out a set A time for the afternoon. It's always just a guess.

Thanks
Gillian

[Mum2lucy]

Update: I tried pushing the A this morning to 3hrs 40mins and I got a nap of 37mins. She wouldn't resettle either after 20mins of trying and 10 mins of leaving her rolling around the cot not crying

[creations]

I would try another 10 min or so increase on the first A time. It does sound like she may be UT now for that first nap. So perhaps 3hr 50 for the first A.  You may not need to increase second A time as you are only planning for a short nap in the afternoon anyway.  I'd just increase the second A if she is refusing to take the nap, but perhaps cap at your regular time to maintain the same A time to bed.
hth

[Mum2lucy]

My worry is that she is overtired from the no naps if I keep pushing the A time she'll just get more overtired??
To be fair she isn't napping much anyway :-(
If it's developmental for why she isn't sleeping, maybe the A is changed temporarily?

[~*Nicole*~]

I would only focus on increasing the first A time and if you get a short nap, keeping the second A time a bit shorter to compensate. Then she might settle that OT and the longer first A time will actually get you a good nap. Just might take a few days of her body adjusting. Right now it could be in limbo, needing more A to nap longer, but getting OT from short napping. A fun UT/OT cycle if you will For some, this is an age where they consider moving to set nap times for the most part and adjusting only slightly if bumps in the road come up. Focusing on only increasing that first A should be okay because it's after a full night of sleep so she should be rested enough to handle it without getting too OT.

[Mum2lucy]

Sorry if this sounds daft but how do set times work? Is it set times in the day irrelevant of wake up and how the naps goes or is a set A time?

I went to 3hrs 50mins this morning and got 1hr 15min nap :-)
However she now majority didn't want to go down for her pm nap. Tried her down at 3hrs 50mins and she just rolled around her cot and got upset at 4.30. I ended up feeding her to sleep (bad I know) at 4.40 as I need her to have a sleep before bedtime. Now bedtime will need pushed back as her nap is so late.

Any help or advice is really great thanks

[Mum2lucy]

I should add re the nap. 4.30 was the time as in 4.30pm. She eventually fell asleep on boob at 4hrs 20mins A time

[creations]

I went to 3hrs 50mins this morning and got 1hr 15min nap :-)

Yay! Great news. I would stick at 3hrs 50 for now then.  Sometimes after a few days they need another increase, so if you see the nap go shorter again in a few days maybe add another 5 to 10 mins on.

With some LOs you don't have to increase the second A time much but it seems your LO is refusing the second nap after a good first nap so I would  increase the second A time.  I'll show an example EASY of how you might fit those naps into the day, allowing for a longer second A time but keeping the second nap short (40 mins, may need capping shorter as you move towards 12 months, capping the nap shorter also helps to in increasing the last A time).  Depending on whether she refuses BT or not you might be able to manage a 7pm BT (after roughly 3hr A because she has only had an afternoon CN) or if there is resistance you may need to either cap the nap shorter or move BT later.  You wouldn't move directly to an 8pm BT but I'm just showing the option there as many people do find a later BT helps for a little while as you move forwards towards the dropping the second nap and having just one nap per day, it is only needed if LO needs a longish A time before BT.

So this is not a set routine, it is a guide:
WU 7
A 3hr 50
S 10.50 - 12.05/12.20 (1hr 15 you got today or 1hr 30 would be common)
A 4hr
S 4.05/4.20 - 4.25/4.45
A 3 - 3.5
BT 7.25/8.15

hope this helps

[Mum2lucy]

Thanks for the reply.

If she goes down at 10.50am for 1hr 15mins it would be 12.05 for wake up and then 4.05 for nap for 30mins. I can usually get a short A before bed. Tonight I did a 2hr 40mins A to bed after a cn of 30mins.

It doesn't look like a 7pm bt is achievable for her just now so I'll have to go for 7.30/8. I just feel it's late for her as she doesn't do a 12hour night either.

Will see how things go for a few days
Xx

[creations]

Oops, sorry, typing up EASY times when my head isn't fully engaged!  I went back to modify it.

[~*Nicole*~]

Yes, regarding set times, it would mean set nap times during the day with some wiggle room. Like you'd adjust for a really bad night or illness, etc. But with how much resistance you're getting with shorter a times I'm not sure it would work anyway.

[Mum2lucy]

Hiya,

A wee update:

I've been doing 3hrs 50mins in the morning, uncapped nap which usually gives me 1hr 10mins to 1hr 25mins.
However I'm still struggling with the afternoon nap. I understand I'm looking for an under tired nap of 40mins but to get this, I'm having to walk her in the pram which is APOP as she won't go down in her cot under tired. Do you think this is ok as I don't want her to need the pram to sleep in general?

Last few mornings I've had 40mins again in the morning. Maybe add on some more morning A? It seems like she isn't sticking to any A time for very long at all. Is that common for A to stretch at 9.5months?

Thanks

[creations]

Last few mornings I've had 40mins again in the morning. Maybe add on some more morning A?

There is always a chance that something else disturbs sleep for a few days, such as teething pain or a cold coming on but the symptoms not yet showing, if you feel it is not anything else then yes add some more A time.  FWIW mine will have been doing more than 4hrs at 10 months as he was always the high end or above the guidance times for his first A of the day - subsequent A times were not as long.

I'm having to walk her in the pram which is APOP as she won't go down in her cot under tired. Do you think this is ok as I don't want her to need the pram to sleep in general?

The good news is that the prop or habit will likely only be linked to this one nap and not every sleep, and the other good news is that you will only need to APOP until that nap is dropped so it isn't for ever it's a shorter term thing and very useful if you can cope with the APing (honestly it can be hard work but for instance mine just needed putting in the car at the right time and we were set for the nap, I did have to drive every day for a few mins to get him off to sleep for the APOP which can feel like a drag if you don't want to go out every day but overall I didn't mind really).
Mine always continued his first 2hr nap at home in his cot totally independent and night sleep remained independent too. From my experience on the boards habits are made per sleep so just don't pram nap the first nap and you will be ok.

Is that common for A to stretch at 9.5months?

I wouldn't say it is common but for sure all LOs are different and some do need a long first A, others need a long last A or they will refuse BT, it's just about adapting to your LO.  It is also not unheard of for a LO to drop the second nap and move to 1 nap even at 10 months. Mine was quite early at 11.5-12 months moved to 1 nap but some are even younger. If it turns out your LO is on the way to dropping that second nap early then it's likely better to go with it than fight it.  When you move to one nap you will need that long first A, a decent second A and an early BT to avoid OT.

hth