Input for a friend's DD please! Nearly 3 Spirited and horrid BT

[nevinsmama]

I offered today to help with my friend's DD who is 3 in June and has never had healthy sleep habits and screams for HOURS at BT. She sometimes naps around 3 ( only in the car) and gets up around 5 ish and is often up past 9. Pending her actually wanting my help I was thinking a Gradual Withdrawal plan with Mom sitting quietly in the dark ( she is in a BGB) repeating "C, it is sleepytime , you are OK" or would a WIWO be better. LO is VERY Spirited and LOUD and NEVER stops. I am hoping a quiet chat about routine and maybe turning the TV off sometimes might come about as I think LO is usually over stimulated.
She is going through a rough time right now with her DH and the screaming BTs and lack of sleep are not helping. Older DD is just as intense and has ADHD. No idea if she will let me lend a hand, but I do hope she will and I wanted to confer with you experts so I don't lead her astray. Right now I am so grateful for all the Shh.pat, routine, awareness of OS and OT and all that PUPD I did back in the day! Pays off in a big way when I have 2 12 hour solid sleepers that wait nicely for their clock and "tick-lights" to turn on so they may get up. Whew, what would I have done without BW! 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I always think of wi/wo as more of a standby for a child who has already been sleep trained and is having a rough patch so I think gradual withdrawal in this case might be best and might help build trust if she has ever done CC or CIO. I really hope she is open to your suggestions re tv and routine as that will certainly help get things more calm at bedtime. The nap at 3 is probably working against her at this point...not that some kids dont still nap at this age but I know my spirited ones would have been wired with a late nap like that!

[becj86]

I'd say you're on point there, get rid of that nap, my spirited would also have been wired after a nap, ever 5min was too much and would result in BT 3hr later than usual. Turn off the TV at least an hour before BT and ST with GW, planning for it to take at least a month or two to get out of the room, all going extremely well. Its a big change for LO, poor kid must be so OT and she will need help to get to sleep those first weeks just as she recovers from the OT and learns to sleep rather than crash.

ETA: She should expect NWs - if LO is sleeping 9-5, when she moves BT to 6 or 7, its quite possible LO will wake habitually 8hr after going to sleep but it'll be the MOTN and she'll be easier to get back to sleep because she's used to sleeping at that time and hopefully one can explain to a child of nearly 3 that its still sleep time. I know when DS woke habitually 9hr after BT, I did SEBT and he woke at 2am instead of 4 and I could show him the stars and the moon and the darkness and coldness and quietness of outside in the MOTN and he was much happier to go to sleep again so he'd have energy to play when other people were up and about to play with

[nevinsmama]

Thank you both so much! I do hope she will want to help her little girl. The child has some crazy OT built up, as does Mom I am sure! However, I can only help if she wants me too. She is the type who will have a hundred reasons why it won't work and why her kid is different. I can only remind her that if she wants to keep doing the 3 hours of screaming, that is, of course, her choice. Fingers crossed!

[weaver]

Best of luck Maryn, she's lucky to have you!

[nevinsmama]

Best of luck Maryn, she's lucky to have you!

Thank you, Anne! No word from her, it is so strange how people decide things "are the way things are" and don't want to change things up or consider other options. Even my casual questioning was met with WHY it was the way it was. 1st thought, turn the blasted TV off!

[weaver]

That's often my first thought too! But if she doesn't realise/is desensitised to its effect on her, she's not going to change for her children.

I've had so many people complain to me about sleep and then refuse point blank to try to do anythjng about it.