Shh pat is hard, please help!

[oofy2016]

Hi Jessmum, creations and buntybear,

Thank you so much for your posts. Im not normally a forum/internet user but i can't tell you how good it is to have some support. I've been totally anti cio so far to the point where I have lost what I thought were good childhood friends over it. When we were in hospital I even had a 'lecture' from one of the paediatric nurses telling me I was a poor mother not to sleep train my baby so it's really hit my confidence over time, and I was starting to doubt myself.

Having your messages has given me a bit more confidence to follow the no cry path. I'm not going to do any cry type training. To be honest, for the past couple of nights I'm just back to feeding whenever she wants, but doing pupd for bedtime and for the first nap which I will consistently do in her cot. Thank you for the confidence boost not to take his step, which I would have really regretted.

I'll call the gp tomorrow. I called the pediatrician on Monday in tears and left a really long message with his receptionist saying I think she is in pain and she's waking every 30-45 mins still/again but as yet I've not heard anything back. She is now just under 16 lbs and even my friends with really poor routines don't get waking so like this...we are under the care of a gastroenterologist and a allergy specialist so maybe I should all the allergy specialist too, but I don't think we will get to see her as she is soooo busy. Her next appt with us is mid November.

My little lady is so happy giggly and smiley most of the time, this poor sleep is such a mystery. Do you ever get babies that are so attached to their mums that sleep can be an issue? (This is my mums theory).... But I think more likely discomfort?

Bunty bear, thanks for the other reply- I'll have a look at it now.

Thanks all of you. Hopefully I'll post in the future with good news to say things have improved.
Xx

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Some times some docs/paediatricians are comfortable to increase a dosage or offer further advice over the phone, even via their secretary if they don't have time themselves.  There's no way I would have increased my DS's dose without medical go ahead but I was able to speak to the pedi's secretary, tell her everything and ask for advice on dose. They then got back to me the same day with the new dosage which I could implement immediately rather than wait for official documentation to be posted to my GP etc.  It sounds like a good idea to call the allergy specialist and anyone who is involved with the medical care/welfare of your LO.

My little lady is so happy giggly and smiley most of the time, this poor sleep is such a mystery

This was very much like my DS.  Each time he saw a health visitor or a doctor (he say several) he smiled at them and was ever so polite and sociable, as a result they (mostly) called him a "happy spitter" and said he didn't need meds for his reflux.  They weren't there in the middle of the night when he screamed blue murder for hours on end or couldn't sleep more than 10 or 20 mins, yk?  It was only the paediatrician actually who said otherwise based on my answers to her questions rather than whether or not he smiled at her. Plus she ignored his smile and heard him refluxing.

Do you ever get babies that are so attached to their mums that sleep can be an issue?

Props and habits can be formed by mums are carers of course they can but in terms of attachment to their mums IMO the more attached the better, it gives them the confidence that you will always return when they need you and rather than needing you permanently they instead need you less because they are so secure in knowing they are responded to, they don't panic when you leave them because they know they only have to call out and you'll be back.
I think based on the amount of wake ups and the fact your LO has done a longer stretch of sleep in the past heavily leans towards pain.  Props might be formed in addition and especially if you have to do everything you can to help her sleep but in my experience my DS was happy and confident to return to independent sleep just as soon as the pain was relieved.  the thing is too with pain, they get comfort (and partial pain relief) from Mummy but chances are they also spend a good amount of time just screaming in your face - which is more than just wanting to be picked up.

Im not normally a forum/internet user but i can't tell you how good it is to have some support

Me too. I did try another parenting site for a while when I was first pregnant and until my DS was a few months old but tbh I was never comfortable there.  When I found this forum the support I had from the BW community was unlike anywhere else, and that's why I've stuck around for 5 years. It's a special place this

Good luck with your calls today x

[oofy2016]

I can't thank you enough...last night was equally rubbish, but guess what?
Her ranitidine dose was TOTALLY wrong. The gp gave me a dose that was LESS THAN HALF what it should have been and dosed her for under 6 months, when she is 8.5 months now. I'm SO cross!,

They admitted it and today we are starting on a new dose. I'm waiting for the specialist to ring back re other potential issues, but at least I can now dose her correctly.

They have said twice a day and timing relative to food is unimportant -is this correct? I had heard somewhere that it needs to be before food?

Thanks for the help and prompting me to hassle the doctor. I've been hoping I could trust them up to now, but it turns out you can't.

Fingers crossed it works. Thank you so much

X x

[creations]

Oh I am so so happy to read your update - this is a massive change in meds and I really hope this will help her feel more comfortable and so you can feel happier and get the rest you need too.  Even if there are additional factors this surely must help, it sounds positive!!

I was never really sure what time we were supposed to give the ran meds, it didn't really seem to make a difference I don't think. On the right dose it helped on the wrong dose it didn't.

The gp gave me a dose that was LESS THAN HALF what it should have been

Like mine. He was on about a quarter the dose he should have been on.
I am always grateful to the NHS, but they are only human and can make errors.

FX for you

[Buntybear]

Gosh - fingers crossed this can settle her poor tummy and allow you all some much needed sleep x

When you do sleep train there will be some crying - don't think that there won't be but if you follow the BW guidelines you will be there supporting your LO and teaching her independent sleep. It will be hard at first as she will have become attached to you but there will be support here for you! And it is 'easier' listening to the cries when you know she is not crying due to pain  don't want to frighten you just being realistic!

[jessmum46]

Well done for going and getting things checked, really hope this makes a big difference for you xx

[oofy2016]

Ok. So I have been doing the correct dose of ranitidine for 5 days now. How quickly should I see a response if silent reflux is an issue? A couple of friends have told me it's not likely to be an issue as reflux goes away at weaning....is this correct?

We had a massive set back as my daughter got a norovirus type tummy bug over the weekend that hubby and I then got and we are still in isolation here. It feels like one thing after another really and I really need a break.

However, last night, we had some changes. She had a rubbish nap in the afternoon, only half an hour, but then at night, slept from 8-1 and 1.10-3. However, she then woke every 20 minutes till morning. Why would we have such a good start to the night, and then such a rubbish end? i keep thinking about it and is there ever a situation with a baby this age, where they are sleepy in the night and not feeding properly, so they keep waking in hunger? Should I try changing her nappy and feeding with the light on at her first waking to see if I can get her to feed more efficiently and sleep for longer? I'm seriously considering stopping breastfeeding to see if bottles help too, but she is really unreliable on bottles and I don't want to create another issue, especially as her weight has been such an issue.

I have tried ringing the specialists we are under. I have called the one 3 times now, the other is on holidays for two weeks. I really don't want to call the gp, as they really have been useless and just think I'm a neurotic first time mum, and it makes me feel rubbish every time I speak to them.
I'm just going to hassle the specialist who isn't on holiday until he speaks to me.

Thanks for any advice.

[oofy2016]

Ps the only other thing is that when I feed her overnight it is really hard to keep her awake and she inevitably falls asleep. Do you think this could be the problem? If so, do you have advice on what to do about this? Do I need to wake her up fully lights on etc to keep her awake?

[creations]

Really sorry to hear you were/are all poorly

The night sounds so much improved considering how bad it sounded before.
My DS was very poorly around 10 months and it took a good while for him to fully recover, he had not had a night feed for a few months by then but suddenly needed night feeds again during his recovery. This was the way he made up for lost calories from his illness. Because their tummies are so little they can only take in so much so if they do need to feed themselves back up after illness they need more feeds for a little while. Now it may not be this but because she has been ill it *may* be this so I would go ahead and feed if she's waking like that even just to see if that's what it is.  I wouldn't put the light on though.
That's just my thought on it, others may think differently.

A couple of friends have told me it's not likely to be an issue as reflux goes away at weaning....is this correct?

For some it may be.  My DS had silent reflux all the way through weaning though, without the meds he was a mess and solids were well established when his dose of ranitidine needed increasing.  He stopped his meds at 2yo and then had to go back on about 3.5yo I think it was (hazy on the dates without looking back through hundreds of thread to look for it).  He needed the meds for a shortish period. This happened again, I'm going to guess around 4.5yo and just recently has happened again he is now 5.5yo. He is mostly OFF meds but when the flare up happens he starts waking in the night in pain and after a while I can see the symptoms, hiccups and I can hear him refluxing at times (there is no spit up or vomit) and the first big flare up he was trying to describe to me something in his throat.
The lovely BW community helped me to decide if we needed to try a ranitidine trial after he'd been off it for so long and that's when I discovered that some do need to go back on meds for short periods even as they are growing up.  This time (and the last couple) I'm only giving meds once per day and that seems to be enough to keep him settled.  He was prescribed twice per day so actually for us I'm finding the small does is enough to manage the level of reflux.

[oofy2016]

Gah. The last two nights she has woken 11 and 12 times respectively. I at the end of my tether.....

[jessmum46]

Has she only ever been on ranitidine?  Perhaps she needs something different?

[oofy2016]

Thanks jessmum. I'm going to call the pediatrician on Monday and just keep calling until he talks to me. I think she needs a higher dose and to try omeprazole.
Thank you.

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))), I really hope you get it sorted out xx

[creations]

How did the call to the paediatrician go?
I hope things get better soon for you xx

[oofy2016]

Hi there,

Thanks for asking. I took some independent advice and upped her ranitidine dose, and immediately went from waking 11/12 times per night to 4 x per night and last night only woke twice. I'm not celebrating yet, as I know that these things are very fragile, but it's a vast improvement and I haven't changed anything other than the ranitidine.

I have left five messages each for the two pediatricians I see, but so far have yet to speak to them. I'm a bit disappointed.

I am hoping to ask for omeprazole (losec mups) as I've heard it's slightly better and easier to give long term, than ranitidine.

I'm crossing fingers and toes that this trend continues. And I'll let you know.
Thank you for the help and support and for encouraging me to follow my instincts when I knew something wasn't right.

J