Shh pat is hard, please help!

[jessmum46]

Could you post her whole EAS routine for us? 

I think a general rule of thumb is not over 2 hours in any one nap whilst still on 2 naps but if we can see your routine we can look if there are issues there x

[oofy2016]

Hi,
Thanks. Her routine is generally as follows:
7 up give omeprazole
7.30 E solids
8 A play
9.30 E bottle/breast
10 S asleep
12/12.30 A up and play/activity
1.00 E solids
1.30 A class/swim/park with other babies
3.30 E breast feed
3.45 S sleep
4.45 A activity
6 E solids
7.15 A bath
7.30 bottle/breastfeed
8 asleep

Any advice greatly received. I can't believe we've been trying to work on this since April!!

If her first nap is over 2 hours, should I wake her?

She is teething at the moment and is now waking about 5 x overnight again, but I only feed at 1 and 5.

Recently she has been very difficult to put down for naps and has really screamed...maybe OT? I do wonder if she needs her morning milk closer to her morning solids (ie earlier in the day) and then longer before her first nap, but I usually feed milk immediately before a nap and I'm worried that by not doing that association she might not sleep so well....?

Thanks,

Jess

[oofy2016]

ps. could she be transitioning to one nap a day yet? she woke at 7.30 today, if i change her A time to 4 hours, including in the morning (I'm trying this today) and she sleeps for 2 hours from 11 30, she will need a second nap at 5.30 which is very close to bedtime....I cant work out the maths with this one??

Thanks.

xxx

[jessmum46]

OK, it's been a long time since this thread started and I think she is about 9.5/10 months now??  Is that right?

If so, my suggestion would be to push her routine a bit so her morning nap comes later (assuming you want to keep a long morning, short afternoon routine) and shorten up the afternoon nap a bit to keep bedtime the same.  I think she could well be UT on her current routine as she is getting a lot of daytime sleep for a LO her age.  If she is more tired by some longer stretches in the daytime awake, she may be more soundly settled at night (assuming pain is not the issue any more, of course).

I would suggest pushing morning A time to 3h15 in the first instance, then 3h30.  Keep the second A at 3h30/45 for now and then see if you need to wake her a bit sooner from the second nap to preserve bedtime.

So for example:

WU 7
Nap 10.15/30-12.30 (wake by 2h mark)
Nap 4/4.15-4.45/5 (wake at 45 mins)
BT 8

I would work towards that and then see what happens to the nights.  You may need to push a bit more but start there

[jessmum46]

Oh yes, it is the early stages of 2-1 (but not time for one nap yet!!)

In the situation you described I would say do:

WU 7.30
Nap 11.30-1.30
(wake at 2h)
Catnap 5-5.30 wake at 30 mins (she may be ok to take this as an UT nap and will be easier to wake)
BT 8

[oofy2016]

Hi Jessmum,

Sorry for the slow reply, we were away for a week and the wifi was down in the place we were staying. Thanks so much for the advice. She is now 10 months. It's really handy to know how I can play it with the 2-1 transition. Again today she woke at 8, and I struggled to fit in two naps. But with your advice now I'll start waking her if her first nap is a bit long and look at an a time adjustment.

Thanks so much for the ongoing help. It's getting better but very slowly!

Thanks, x

[jessmum46]

Keep going, honestly I can say once both of mine settled on one nap it was so much easier, you've done most of the really tough sleep bit already

[oofy2016]

Thanks Jess mum.

It's gone a bit downhill again. She is back to waking hourly, even with pick up put down persistence.

Do you think I should go back to the specialist? It's difficult as he now won't give me a consult as he says she is fine, and keeps telling me to do controlled crying. BUT I do have private medial, and could use this to see someone else?

Agh agh agh.

Do you just get some babies who don't sleep, even if given the perfect conditions?

Thanks.

Jess

[jessmum46]

Personally I would use the private cover if you have the option, even 'not great sleepers' tend not to wake hourly yk?  The only time we have had wakings that often is with illness or pain.  When was the last meds change/increase?  Have you added in any new foods to her diet?  Signs of allergies etc?

[oofy2016]

Thanks Jessmum. I really appreciate the advice.

 Just plodding along a bit here, had one amazing surprise night where she woke once, and now back to 5x a night...but we are persisting. I've been particularly tired recently, so have resorted to feeding at every wake up overnight. Her wake ups are totally random, never at the same time each night.

I am also back to work, so she has started nursery 2 days per week.

I think the issue is partly that she is now taking a fair amount of calories overnight, and therefore not eating solids properly, or taking as much milk as she should be taking during the day. At nursery last week she refused all food including her milk, the whole day.

Do you think this could be the cause of the frequent night waking so? If so, Do you have advice about how to tip this balance, so she is taking more calories in the day rather than at night? She has taken to batting the bottle away and just throwing her solids on the floor, with is very disheartening.

Do I just choose 2 times to fed overnight, and pupd for the rest?

Any advice gratefully received. I realise I have been a bit high maintenance on this thread, but I honestly have no where else to go. I'd do ANYTHING for a bit more sleep, apart from cio/cc.

Thank you.

Jess

[Buntybear]

Hi - Yes I think she is hungry over night and you don't want to crete a habit on feeding at every wake up  I think your suggestion to feed twice is a good one, maybe at 11pm ish (like a DF) and 1 other?

How is your elimination diet going?Are you still off soy and milk? What foods is she eating now? How does she seem at the NWs?  Olly would wake with awful wind when it was food related! Teeth are going to be causing some discomfort at this age I would have thought too