getting started with 5.5mo who goes to sleep independently but short naps

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I think he doesn't want to see me when he's being resettled, and too much shushing keeps him up

It's ok to adapt to what works better for you. If he doesn't want to be shushed just jiggle. The idea is only to keep him asleep or help him get back to sleep more quickly rather than waiting for him to cry for you by which time usually LOs are harder to resettle.

I noticed you are still on 2hr 30 first A time.  Is this because you plan for a short first nap rather than trying to sleep train on that nap?

[hohoh1]

A shorter first nap would be more convenient until his A times are up to three hours so I guess I'm inclined in that direction but he was simply wiped and super grumpy by 2h30. Today I'm trying to push a little more but he was up twice in the night for over an hour so he's pooped (not sure what the night wakings were but suspect constipation from newly introduced solids because he eventually slept without any extra feeds and did a huge poo in the morning).

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Yes introducing solids can effect them as they adapt to the solid poos and can disturb sleep too.  There can be a bit of a catch 22 with reducing A times following long NWs though. If you reduce the A or keep it shorter then you don't get through the day so well and this can have a knock on effect to the night.  For instance with keeping the first A shorter (either due to convenience or because he is very tired from NWs) can result in a short nap so he doesn't get a chance for a restorative sleep in the morning, which then effects how long he can stay awake for the second A time and how well he sleeps for the second nap...
See how you go for a few days though,. It's certainly possible to have a CN in the morning if that's what you need to happen, as I said our own routine was not standard but we made it work for us

[hohoh1]

Got him to 2h40 this morning, he's down now - will see how this goes!

Really annoyed solids probably messed with his tummy, I'm already off dairy and egg as we suspected a reaction to them in my milk because he was waking a lot in the early evening (this has stopped since 2 weeks off both). And I'm severely gluten intolerant. Not in a rush to wean him but he is clearly grabbing at food and feeds himself very enthusiastically when given the chance. Will stick to fruit and small amounts of veg for a little while I think - a bit of porridge yesterday may have been ambitious/constipating.

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Try not to worry too much about the solids/poo thing. It can be easy to worry (don't we all?) especially when there are questions over certain foods already and you don't know for sure if there are negative reactions but honestly all babies poo changes when solids are introduced, it doesn't mean you messed his tummy up or that the solids did, it's just a time of change that's all.  I worried that mine was constipated after starting solids and he did get a bottle of meds from the doc but then a health visitor advised me that LOs do need to work harder to push a poo out after solids and that this is part of the learning process, that they learn to push and use their  muscles.  It can seem like quite an ordeal for baby to poo but this is normal... clearly you don't want to ignore true constipation but I'm just letting you know that looking like they are straining doesn't necessarily mean constipation in a baby.
It sounds like he is very keen to try your foods
There is a Feeding Solids Food board if you have any questions about weaning, and a handy thread over there on constipating and laxative foods - as example I found out from the boards that carrots can constipate (and did with my DS) so sticking to fruit and veg is not *always* a sure way to avoid constipation.

Good luck with todays naps

[hohoh1]

Well the fact that I'm able to type this post is testimony to the past few days - this is only the second time ever he has taken this last nap in his bed, and it's glorious not to be marching around with him for the final catnap (and means I have the energy to take him out after he wakes up which will fill some of the tricky time between last nap and bedtime routine). Today was:
WU 6.30
E 7
A 2h40
S 9.10
E 10
A 2h30
E 11.45 - he really eats at this feed which is good because it will get him through til after his long nap but he also drifts off to sleep while feeding which is less good. I'd like to make it earlier to avoid this, but have the fear about him not settling during the long nap due to hunger, especially towards the end. At the moment I think I'd better keep this here til he is sleeping his long nap without my help and then try to gently move to 4-hourly. We are currently trying to drop one of the 2 night feeds too and I don't want to cut 2 feeds too quickly - do you think this is the right approach?
S 12.10 - this nap was in 3 parts - 30 mins, 2 mins resettling, 39 mins, 10-ish mins resettling - 1 hour 20 in total
E 3
A 2h30
S 4.20
And he will prob wake at 4.50-ish so we're heading for usual bedtime of 7.15pm.

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I don’t have BF experience (I had to switch to formula in the early weeks) but from what I see on the boards 2 night feeds for a BF baby is absolutely normal at this age.  I would probably continue with both night feeds for now.

WRT day feeds.  If you are able to extend the E time for that second feed up to 4hrs, so feeding at 11 instead of 10 (you might have solids between meaning there are a few calories going in between), then you'd be able to not feed again before the nap.  E at 11 and then at 3pm is 4hrs, or at 2pm is 3hrs, the nap is roughly 12pm so you're looking at the opportunity for a good 2hr nap from 12-2 without the need for milk.  Make sense? Actually if he can't make it to the 4hrs (between 7 and 11) even 3.5hr would be enough, E at 7 and 10.30 then next is due 1.30/2pm .  He either takes a 1.5hr nap and wakes in time for the E or he sleeps longer which naturally extends the time between E anyway, many babies do this, they know they'll get fed when they wake so are fine doing a little longer between E.

[hohoh1]

Thanks for this. Tried your suggestion with the feeds yesterday but I don't think it went well - he wouldn't really resettle for the middle nap, got only stints of 6-7 mins out of him where previously I'd managed at least another 30 mins after the initial 30 mins. I think his belly needs to be more full at that time, for now. When the solids are filling him up better I'll try again.

Feeling discouraged but also like I have reached a point of no return - he has napped longer than 30 mins twice this week, both for the morning nap. Middle nap just doesn't work. He is much less difficult to manage on a 2h45 A time than before though, I think he might even need this throughout the day which is tricky because the implication is 2 naps, but this really won't work for us (bedtime will be really early, plus his middle nap needs to be longer and at the moment it just isn't). Keeping the final catnap for now and maybe shoving bedtime later. I can't really go back to the devil i know of 4 nap days when he isn't settling easily at 2h/2h30, so I'm just going to have to persevere... Today I get a day off from the prison of his bedside because we have a swimming lesson at 1pm which means a couple of car naps. Urrrghggh just don't know how to manage this. He is settling himself again at the usual 30 minute mark for the morning nap literally as I type...

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Do you have some set commitments at certain times of the day you need to work around?  if you do perhaps I can help with some ideas if you wanted to share when the times are?

I know you're cautious to increase the A times but if you look back to the earlier posts I had suggested you might be looking at increasing to 2hr 45 and then another increase to 3hrs. You could get a better nap on that (along with teaching him to stay asleep).

[hohoh1]

Maybe you're right.

I have these things to fit in:
3pm class on a Monday for which we must leave at 2.40
11am class on a Tuesday which we drive to and from. It's an hour long and about 20 mins drive.
That's it actually.

I also have worked with a sleep consultant who strongly recommended a 6.30pm last feed and a 7.30pm bedtime. Everything she's suggested for night sleep has been brilliant. The last feed was giving him indigestion and waking him up all evening. However the naps situation is all over the shop and I'm willing to believe his A time is longer than it seems by his tired signs. Any help you can offer is great..

[hohoh1]

I should add that the main problem i see with extending back times is that we don't quite lose the cat nap but that it does make bedtime really late, like extra feed late...

I feel really incoherent! It's been a long hard week

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I'll have a look at the times and routine when I have a bit more time and see if I can come up with an idea for you.

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Well, you could try something like this which would be a routine you could keep 7 days per week rather than chopping and changing each day.  The more you can keep each day the same the easier it is for LO to get into the habitual naps and easier for you to know where you are and when his naps need to be etc.
It looks like a routine for a slightly older LO with there being one shorter nap and one longer but what you could do initially is let him sleep a bit longer for nap 1 on the days you are home (1.5 instead of 1hr) and on the day you are out you might see some nodding off in the car during your journey.

WU 6.30
A 3
S 9.30 - 10.30 capped to make the 11am class
class 11-12 Tuesdays
A 2hr 30
S 1.00 - 2.30
Class 3-4 Mondays
A 3hr
EBT 5.30
I've put early bed time in as most LOs dropping a nap need EBT for a while.

[hohoh1]

Thanks for this. A 5.30 bedtime seems unlikely to work for our family or our fussy sleeper. Additionally we aren't getting the long naps although I'm stilll trying. I can see another way of being consistent though.

[hohoh1]

Just checking in to update in case anyone in the same situation has followed this - I had a lot of doubt right up until Saturday that this was working AT ALL, but Sunday, Monday and today my little boy seems to be getting with the programme. For a few days in a row, typically naps are longer and he either resettles very quickly for me or resettles himself in just a few moments after that startl-y 32 minute waking. I'm over the moon!! I'm sure this week will not be completely smooth and as you have pointed out, creations, having a little inconsistency to our days isn't helpful. However going with a shorter early nap and keeping the catnap until I can be more consistent seems to work for now. Thanks so much for the input.

To be clear I think what has worked is:
(a) resettling him when he wakes from a short nap, consistently - I haven't done this for every morning nap because these have been longer on their own, but I have literally camped in his room from 30 mins into the second nap to get this longer
(b) extending A times to around 2H40 mins...he seems to need this throughout the day except for before the catnap when he can be a little less tired (isn't sleeping for as long anyway)
(c) consistent timing of naps

Also insisting on him settling independently for a nap, returning to comfort/jiggle when he is crying but leaving the room otherwise...this relies on him not being overtired, so the nap timing is crucial. We had a terrible night the night before last thanks to some tummy issue (I strongly suspect a delayed allergy to something he ate or I ate) and keeping him up the following morning was a challenge, then he screamed into his first nap, so I had to settle him and it was a short nap. Second nap he settled on his own initially, and barely required my help to go back to sleep and make it longer when he woke after 30 mins.