13 week old baby with nap issues

[kellymjervis]

Hi everyone, hope someone can give me some advice please.

Matthew is 13 weeks old, conceived via IVF, bottle fed, has silent reflux and seemingly hates naps. I've been halfheartedly trying to implement EASY for the past 6 weeks or so, but in the past week have been following it as much as possible. The main issue we have is naps. I'm pretty sure he stopped having naps over 45 mins around 8 weeks ago, which was when I (stupidly) decided to stop bringing his basket downstairs and expected him to sleep on his beanbag or bouncer (I'm a first time mum, please don't judge me too harshly!). Now the only way he will nap is on me or in his Close Caboo and even then it's a fight! Having read The Baby Whisperer and browsed the forum I think the issue is he's a touchy baby (followed close 2nd with textbook!) who is overtired most of the day. Oddly enough he sleeps well at night and I think that can be attributed to our nighttime routine of; upstairs at 6, bath/wash, book, bottle, cuddles and asleep for 7.30. He then has a dreamfeed at 10ish, wakes at 2 for another feed, back to sleep and wakes us up at 6.30/7 by adorably cooing at us from his basket. So I pretty much know what the problem is (OT) and why it's happened (silly mummy, much longed for baby with reflux who has been constantly cuddles/rocked to sleep), I just don't know how to solve it! The couple of times I've attempted to put him in his basket when I think I've just "caught him" before the OT kicks in, his startle reflex wakes him up 

All suggestions and advice greatly received!

[creations]

Hello and welcome to BW forums

Don't be too hard on yourself for holding your refluxy baby, sometimes it's the only way refluxers will sleep.
Sounds like your night are great though!

Could you post your EASY times please so we can have a look at what is happening during the day.  Post what actually happens in a real day rather than what you hope/plan for. Please post it something like this format which we find helpful:
WU (wake up) 6.30
E 6.30
A 1hr 30
S 8.00 - 8.45
E 9.30
and so on
put a little note about if you tried to resettle, for how long, what the result was, what his mood was.

Is your LO on meds for the reflux?
Have you been using shush/pat to sleep train and is your LO able to self settle and go to sleep independently for any naps or night sleep? or do you cuddle/rock to sleep at night too?

Meanwhile, just one suggestion, have you tried him upstairs in his night bed (basket) for his nap?  My LO decided at 10 wks old that he would no longer sleep in the travel cot downstairs in the family room and wanted to go up to his night bed, I had planned to keep him napping in the family room as per SIDS guidance to keep LO in the same room until 6 months but my DS had other ideas and I tried the night bed out of desperation after he'd been refusing to nap for a few days, he smiled and went straight to sleep like that's what he'd been asking for all along.  It's a personal choice though, obviously the SIDS guides are there for a reason and sleeping in the same room you are in is the safest place.

[kellymjervis]

Hello, thanks for your reply

I've had a look at the logs I've got and they're honestly all over the place!

WU - generally between 6.30am - 7.15am
E 15 mins after morning WU, 5 mins after nap WU
A between 1hr 30 & 2hrs
S daily naps consist of 1x 30 mins, 1x40 mins & 1x45 mins (with the occasional 1hr nap) and sometimes a small "catnap" of 1x20 mins - very little in the way of tired signals so by the time I've figured it out, he's in meltdown mode and it takes 15 mins to settle him.

He's no longer on medication for reflux, just a thickened anti-reflux milk.
He's fairly independent for bedtime; bottle, 5 mins cuddles and in his basket. If he wakes during the night/after feeds he generally self-settles although occasionally likes a little extra cuddle. He seems to like having his head stroked which I think may be not only his head being stroked but his eyes being covered and blocking out the light? We do have black-out curtains in our room but we do also have a nightlight so I don't know if maybe that could be causing an issue. Was considering buying a blackout blind as well - all the darkness!
Naps he's rocked, head stroked and shush/pat.
Took your advice and (attempted) to put him upstairs in his crib for naps and I think it was semi-positive (we just changed from basket to crib yesterday, he seems ok so far with the change). I also made nap setting similar to bed time so curtains closed & white noise on. 1st nap I attempted to swaddle him, he's not a fan but did calm with 1 hand out. Placed hand on his chest as startle reflex woke him a couple of times. Nap 3 I put him in Grobag sleep suit thingy and again put hand on arm/chest to stop startle reflex. Reflex was less with the swaddle but not sure how likely he is to let me swaddle him at every nap!

Today's EASY times;

WU 6.40am
E 7.10am 3oz of 6oz bottle (daddy was distracting him!)
A 7.20am-7.55am
   8am upstairs and remaining 3oz of previous bottle, story and cuddles
S 8.35am - 9.15am (in crib)
   9.15am wakes up and won't settle further in crib despite being tired, falls asleep on me after being rocked and shush/pat and head stroking
  9.50am - 10.45am (on me)
E 10.50am 6oz
A 11.05am-12.05pm (wind down from 12.05pm)
S 12.20pm-1pm (on me)
E 1.05pm 2oz
A 1.15pm-2pm
E 2.05pm 4oz
A 2.20pm - 2.50pm (wind down 2.50pm as looking tired)
S 3.05pm - 3.45pm (in crib)
E 4pm 4.5oz
A 4.20pm - 6.25pm (colic massage at 4.45pm in the hope he might be snoozy afterwards)
(S - totally refused nap despite both me & daddy trying between 5pm-6pm)
A 6pm-6.25pm bath/story (quite grumpy, except in his bath, as has realised he should have probably napped earlier!)
E 6.30pm 2oz (fell asleep eating as so tired)
S 6.45pm - 7.10pm (woke up grumpy as he was hungry because he didn't finish his bottle because he fell asleep because he was tired and should have napped earlier!)
E 7.15pm 2oz
S 7.25pm

He's normally much better at taking his bottles and doesn't usually snack like today, he's just had his milk increased to 6oz (for most bottles anyway) so I think that's what has thrown him, plus despite me saying he wouldn't need fed until 2pm my mum still gave him a bottle at 1pm, he only took 2oz as clearly wasn't hungry but is just a bit greedy! Completely refused his cat-nap between 5pm/6pm but did want a small extra feed, which then meant he wouldn't take his bedtime bottle fully, plus he was exhausted from refusing his catnap between 5pm/6pm! It's just me & him tomorrow so I'm hoping that we'll both be able to stick to the routine a bit more.

We were dreamfeeding him at 10pm, but he started waking every 3 hours (despite dreamfeed) as was hungry. When established on 6oz for every bottle we might try again.

I think the main things I want to sort out are;
1) improving his naps to longer than 45 mins for each nap
2) getting him to sleep in his crib for all naps (even if I will miss the extra cuddles)
3) getting him to completely self-settle when he wakens (naps and at night)
4) making sure he takes all naps and doesn't skip the catnap between 5pm/6pm - daddy usually comes home then and I think he gets distracted by him being home that he then gets OT again. If I can get him to fall asleep before my hubby gets home, they can have time when he wakes up. Was thinking of putting him in the sling whilst I get stuff done around the house.
5) get him to let someone else i.e. daddy put him to bed. Just now he gets rather upset if I don't do the whole routine, but I think that's because I've done 99% of it since he was born.
Obviously it's not going to happen at once as it is quite a lot to reverse, plus he's had weeks of me "training" him to sleep in my arms at nap time but it's better for him to have a better sleep routine. And for me!

Thanks for your help

[creations]

Transitioning to a crib is another disturbance for him, but it's a great time to do it now as you enter this phase of sleep training so he can get used to his 'new bed'

So, your A times look roughly ok at the moment, there is nothing which leaps out as being 'wrong' with them but as you teach him to sleep independently it may become apparent that he does better on a slightly longer or shorter first A time or a slightly longer or shorter last A time if you see what I mean.  Babies are all different so although we have the guidance times we generally look at the individual to see what suits best.

For now I would focus on putting to sleep in the crib for every nap apart from the last CN which you've suggested using the sling for, this may well help him get that CN in before Daddy comes home
For the other naps though I'd put him in the sleep sack or gro bag and put down in the crib, it's ok to help with your hand on for soothing and to hold through the jolts, it's also ok to shush/pat or stroke his head in the crib to help him gain confidence to sleep there.  You might find that a sheet over him and tucked tightly into the mattress may help with the startle.

You can try a W2S (wake to sleep) for the naps in the crib, this is where you helps to sooth your LO through the transition between one sleep cycle and the next. So whilst you are teaching him to go to sleep in the crib instead of in arms, you also need to teach him to take a longer nap and to let himself sleep when the first cycle ends rather than fully waking and calling out.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
See the part naps W2S option 1.  You help him right through the transition time. Do this for 3 days then hold off for a day to see what happens, re-start the next day if he still fully wakes at the transition time.

If he wakes during W2S you can continue to try to resettle in the crib, if he needs picking up do so, fully calm in arms, and then I suggest putting him back down in the crib rather than letting him sleep on you for the rest of the nap.  I'd do this for at least the first nap of the day if not all naps.

At the end of the day if there is nap refusal and you've been trying a while I'd quickly reassess the situation, I'd likely feed, skip bath and move directly to a quick wash, nappy change, feed and into bed for an early BT to avoid that last A becoming over long.

getting him to sleep in his crib for all naps (even if I will miss the extra cuddles)

Believe me your LO is going to need you for a loooong loooong time yet. There are going to be *so many* times he needs extra help even after he is fully independently sleeping.  Every time a tooth cuts, when he gets poorly, when he starts sitting and topples over bumping his head, when he toddles, trips and scrapes his knee, every developmental leap when he wakes in the night and needs you, the phases of separation anxiety...oh a million and one times he will need your cuddles.  An independent sleeper certainly doesn't mean no more cuddles, it just means you get time for a shower and a cup of tea during his nap after you've had a rough night of being up half the night with him suffering with a cold or teething.  independent sleep is (IMO) a gift you give your child, not to reduce cuddles but to increase their confidence in themselves through having total confidence in you, and to help you be the best parent you can be because you get to have a little break to recharge your batteries rather than trying to run on empty.

Good luck - let us know how it goes. 

[kellymjervis]

Thank you for the advice I'll give it a go and let you know what happens.

[creations]

Hope things are going well for you.

[kellymjervis]

Hello!

He's sleeping in his crib for all naps now, even if most of them are short naps.

Yesterday;

WU 7.30
E 8 2oz
E 8.30 2.5oz
A 7.30-9.15 (1hr15 play, 15min wind down, 15min to fall asleep)
S 9.15-9.45 (30 mins)
S 10.05-10.45 (40 mins)
E 11 4oz
A 10.45-11.30
S 11.30-11.50 (20 mins in pram)
A 11.50-1.10 (1hr 40min as had cat nap in pram, 10 min wind down, 40 min to fall asleep)
S 1.10-1.45 (35 mins)
E 1.55 3.5oz
A 1.45-3.15 (15 min wind down, 5 min to fall asleep)
S 3.15-4.45 (1hr30, fussed at 4pm, dummy given + head stroked)
E 4.50 4.5oz
A 4.45-6.45
E 6.30 4.5oz
S 6.45-7.10 (25 min, this is previously when he would fall asleep for the night!)
A 7.10-8.30
E 8.15 3.5oz
S 8.30

Total day sleep = 4hrs

Tried putting him in the sling at 6 for a cat nap but he wouldn't sleep and wanted to look around! He used to always be asleep for 7.30 but now seems to cat nap at that time, then wake and not go to sleep for the night until 8.30/8.45. Looking at the logs, his 2nd afternoon nap means he's waking at 4.45/5 so obviously won't then cat nap between 5/6. After his 6/7cat nap should I take him down stairs/give him actual activity rather than battling to get him to sleep again? Also noticed that he doesn't want his bottle when he first wakes up so this morning I waited and he wanted it just before his 1st nap.

Today so far;

WU 6.30
A 6.30-8.15 (1hr10min play, 10 min wind down & 20 min to fall asleep)
E 7.40 4.5oz
S 8.15-8.40 (25 min)
A 8.40-9.05 (5 min in crib to see if would settle, 5 min cuddle, 10 min shush/pat out crib, 5 min in crib)
S 9.05-9.40 (35 min)
E
A 9.40-

[creations]

Great news that you have progressed to all naps in the cot

I wonder if one or two of your A times might be a little long. How about trying to aim for sleep to come 1hr 30 after WU rather than any later?  I'm just looking at a couple of short naps where the A time goes a bit over this and he might be OT and waking early with a OT startle.  It's worth a try, although also bare in mind that he needs to learn to transition in his cot too, when a LO hasn't yet learned to transition from one cycle to the next alone it can also lead to short naps, although I'd expect then to see the nap more like 40 mins rather than 25/30 which I see on your record.

Keep going, you are certainly making great progress

S 3.15-4.45 (1hr30, fussed at 4pm, dummy given + head stroked)
E 4.50 4.5oz
A 4.45-6.45
E 6.30 4.5oz
S 6.45-7.10 (25 min, this is previously when he would fall asleep for the night!)

You asked about him cat napping rather than going to sleep for then night. This here looks like a 2 hr A time before S which is likely too long for him, making him OT and then he can't settle down to sleep for BT meaning the OT NW 25 min into the sleep.  He needs a CN much earlier (at 1hr 30 or less, sometimes A can be reduced to give a CN) say 5.45-6.15 nap then 1hr 15 to 1hr 30 before BT, so BT at 7.30/7.45.

hope this helps
When the other naps consolidate into good length naps you won't have so many little CNs in the day. You might be able to have just 1 CN at the end of the day or perhaps if it suits you better 1 CN in the middle of the day in the pram so you can get out and about.

[kellymjervis]

Thanks again for replying.

His A time was far too long, because he woke late (for him) at 7.30 it threw me & I couldn't figure out when he should have a cat nap 

His startle reflex seems to have gone, and he's also not waking up grumpy after naps so that's a positive too.

Since my plan getting him to cat nap in the sling for his final nap didn't work, I might take him out then for a short walk & hopefully nap after 5.

That's all great, thank you. I'll give at go and let you know how we get on in a couple of days if that's ok?

[creations]

Oh gosh I know how it is to lose track of the day!  I always had to write things down to make sure I knew when the naps and milk times would be!  Once we were settled into a routine I stopped recording our times but then I'd always start again if things went off track or he had an odd day or two.

Oh, yes, please do let us know how you get on

[kellymjervis]

Sometimes I feel like we're getting somewhere but then it just seems as bad as ever I've been trying to W2S but he doesn't actually appear to stir, he literally goes from asleep to awake! Can't seem to get him to have a CN between 5/6 so again his usual BT becomes a CN which pushes BT back.  His feeding is also becoming erratic during the day as he doesn't appear to want fed every 3 hours so isn't taking full feeds.

Yesterday;

WU 7.40
E 8.40 4.5oz
A 7.40-9.10
S 9.10-9.40 30min
A 9.40-11
S 11-11.20 20min
E 11.50 4.5oz
A 11.20-12.50
S 12.50-1.25 35min
E 1.40 1oz
E 2.30 3oz
A 1.25-3
S 3-3.45 45min
E 4.45 3.5oz
A 3.45-5
S 5-5.15 15min
E 6.35 4oz
A 5.15-6.50
S 6.50-7.10 20min
E 1.5oz
A 7.10-8
S 8


Today;

WU 6.30
E 6.30 4oz
A 6.30-6.45
S 6.45-8.15 1hr30
E 9 3oz
A 8.15-10
S 10-11.35 1hr35 (on me as we were at a friend's house)
E 11.40 3.5oz
A 11.35-12.50
S 12.50-1.10 20min
E 1.20 1.5oz
A 1.20-2.40
S 2.40-3.25 45min
A 3.25-4.35
E 4.20 3oz
S 4.35-4.50 15min
A 4.50- 6.45 (far far too long!)
E 5.40 3oz
S 6.45-7.20 35min
A 7.20-7.45
E 7.20 4.5oz
S 7.45

When he has one of his 30 min naps, should I then reduce his next A time? I haven't been and now think that's probably not helping the situation. He doesn't seem to need a long wind down, just more time to settle to sleep so planning on reducing that too.

[creations]

Gosh he's really having short naps.
Can you describe how you put him down for sleep?  Are you putting him down awake but drowsy and are you continuing to shush/pat (or adapted) in the cot to fully asleep or is he going off on his own?

I wonder if you can spend a full nap with him, he did well to get a full long nap when he was held so the A time is likely close to what's needed but he just can't manage to stay asleep in his cot yet.  If it was me I'd spend the first nap of the day with him, by the cot, if he can fall to sleep without you touching him or if you usually leave the room before he nods off I'd still do that (as it is a good sign of self settling) but then I'd go almost directly back in and give assistance throughout the nap to teach him to stay asleep for a full nap.  A hand on him or shush/pat or a firm hand with slight rocking in the cot through the nap may help him to stay asleep.  Whilst this is not independent sleep it does teach him a big step towards independence, to stay asleep in his cot.

If he fully wakes I would keep him in the bedroom in the dark and 'tell' him to go back to sleep. So using shush/pat or rocking in cot, picking up to resettle in arms if needed but when he nods off put him back in the cot and continue with the shush/pat, rocking or firm hand in the cot again.  I would suggest continuing with trying to resettle for 45 mins.  If he nods off for a while then wakes again you can again try to resettle right up to the time a full nap would end (1.5hr from beginning of sleep).

I imagine you wouldn't be able to do this every nap throughout the day but if you can then great, that would be even better.

If you do the above I would suggest counting the A time from when the nap should have ended, it actually ends up much longer than the 1hr 30 and risks some OT but to be honest I'd expect to see 20 min short naps with OT so really the risk of it being worse than you are already getting is minimal as you are already getting such short naps.
If however you get him up from the very short naps I might reduce the A by say 10 mins.

WRT the E times.  He may well be ready to begin to move towards a 3.5hr E time now, and moving towards 4hrly E at 4 months (not all LOs move to 4hrly at 4 months but that is the guidance).  I notice some of your E times are less than 3hrs, this may be adding to the problem of him not taking a full feed.  When he wakes from a short nap you do not need to feed immediately, the EAS routine is intended to give a predictable routine and avoid feeding to sleep prop rather than LOs needing to be fed every time they wake.  During phases of short naps or when nap routines change it is fine to see EASAEAS, when E and S might be about to bump into one another you can feed a little earlier than the 3hrs to avoid feeding too close to sleep time but otherwise try to keep the E times 3hrs or more if he is ready to go longer.
If you choose to go forward with the sleep training as described above (keeping him in the room to resettle until the end of the nap time) he may be resistant and may cry in frustration that you are not getting him up for a play.  So long as you are there with him supporting him this is normal and he knows he is safe.  He may be hungry a bit earlier than normal due to using more calories if he is really putting a lot of effort into crying and has not slept more than say 20 or 35 mins, in that case keep an eye on the clock, know the feed time and bring it a bit earlier if needed (but also if he is crying is does not always mean he is hungry, which is why I say keep an eye on the clock as it will give you a good idea if it is hunger or frustration making him cry).

Hope this helps some.

[kellymjervis]

I was thinking about that earlier (at the 5am feed!) and I don't think I'm actually consistent with what I do for the pre-nap routine. It's a combination of things which must be utterly confusing to him. Decided to start afresh today so wind down is now around 8 mins and is similar to BT routine; upstairs, close curtains, nightlight on, in sleep bag, white noise on, cuddles for 5 mins or until drowsy then in crib with head stroking if necessary. At night I sit (away from him) at the edge of the bed for 10/15 mins to make sure he's ok so going to do that as well. I was going to try 3.5hrs for feeds today, he fed at 5 with me but then hubby told he'd also had some at 6.30! Hopefully I can get a full feed in at lunchtime then take the timing from there. We've got an appointment this afternoon but apart from that, I'm going to spend the next couple of days working in on this.

Thanks again for your help.

[creations]

Your very welcome and your wind down and plan for going forward with training sound good.

Let us know how it goes