Author Topic: 4 month sleep regression?  (Read 3522 times)

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Offline Ulrica83

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4 month sleep regression?
« on: April 14, 2016, 12:58:12 pm »
Hi everyone,

My LO is now 4 months and 10 days old. On the same day he turned 4 months his sleeping habits dramatically changed (and we don't know how to fix them). He used to go down really well, napped for 1,5-2 hours with just some help around the 45 min mark. Now it's difficult to make him nap more than 45 minutes and he seems constantly OT and unhappy. During the nights he wakes up frequently, but goes back to sleep after we reswaddle/put paci back/shh pat. What can we do to get our rested, happy baby back?

I would really appreciate your advice!

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2016, 15:49:12 pm »
Hello!  Can you post your day in EAS format so we can take a look at what might be happening.  45min naps can be either a transition issue (between sleep cycles) or can also be UT (undertired) so it could be that you need a push in A times.

Are you feeding at night at all?  There is a pretty big growth spurt at 4 months as well so the more frequent wake ups could be hunger, or could be a result of being OT if naps are short all day.

We are right there with you in the 4 month fun!



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2016, 16:31:34 pm »
Thank you for your quick reply!

Here's what it's been like for the past three days:

W 7.00
E 7.15 (expressed milk + formula for every feed)
A 7.30
S 8.30-10.00 (this is the best nap, goes down OK, needs shh/pat at 45 min mark, sleeps for another 30-45 min, wakes happy)

E 10.15
A 10.30
S 11.45-12.30 (wakes up cranky, yawning, not wanting to eat. I try to resettle with shh/pat for 15 minutes, no success.)
A 12.30-1.30

E 1.30
A 1.45
S 2.15-3.00 (super tired when put down, I try to keep him up longer, but he can't make it since the nap before was so short)
A 3.00-4.15
S 4.15-5.00 (same as above)

E 5.15
A 5.30
S 6.30 (used to be 7 or 7.30 pm, but he is tired by 6 pm, so we start our BT routine then)

DF 11 pm
NW 2.30 am (resettle with shh/pat, reswaddle, paci)
BF 4 am (no formula here)
EW 6 am (resettle same as above)

He used to wake every hour during the night at 3 months, wanting to eat. My milk supply wasn't enough, he stopped gaining weight - so we started adding formula and everything improved. The nights are so much better, but the days are all off!

He manages fine with 4 hour intervals for feeding during the day. His first A time of the day is always the shortest. I tried pushing his A time towards 2 hours, but I don't think he's ready, a specially not with the short naps - or should I push them?

He has started rolling over, so we are now worrying about the swaddle. Should we remove the swaddle? The paci? Oh dear, I can't even think about it..

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2016, 18:26:42 pm »
I think a large part of the short naps are the A times, at 4 months you should be nearing 2hrs.  My DD is only a few days younger and we are doing around 1.50-2hrs most days.  Sometimes it can seems like they are tired earlier but they just need a change in activity.  I would try extending to at least 1.45 and see what happens.  I think you are in a UT/OT loop which means under tired for the first/second nap which result in a short nap, so then overtired for the remainder.

I hear you in the swaddle, we just started weaning today and it has been disastrous, sigh.

As for the NW have you tried feeding at the 2:30 one? I know my DD used to sleep through to 3/4am but she is now waking at around 1am for a feed and she is starving (we don't DF).  I am just wondering if you feed at 2:30 if it will eliminate your 4am NW.




Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2016, 15:04:42 pm »
Oh, excellent! Once again, thank you.

I tried pushing the A times today. First and second A time was 1,75 hrs and then 2 hrs. He slept 1,5 hours for the first nap! Didn't need any help/shh-pat at all.

This past night was horrible, he woke up at 1 am, needed shh/pat to fall asleep. Woke again at 3 am, needed to breast feed (hungry!). After that he woke every 20 minutes until 5.45 am.. Phew!

So today:

W 5.45 (earliest EVER. Had been shh/patting since 3.15 am, so both him and I were tired of it)
E 6.30
A 7.00
S 7.30-9.00 (woke happy)

E 9.30
A 9.45
S 10.45-11.45 (woke happy)

E 12.45
A 1.00
S 1.45-2.15 awake 30 min, then asleep 2.45-3.30 (woke almost happy..)

E 4.00
A 4.15

And here we are.. The E times are a bit off r/t the sleep issues. Now I don't know whether to put him to bed really early, at 5.30 pm? Or do I give him a cat nap at 5.30-6 and then BT 7/7.30 pm?

He has been fighting the last (fourth nap), so we were thinking of dropping it. But then this regression came and we lost track..

Any recommendations?

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2016, 15:11:10 pm »
Well at least the naps have improved! Nights...we are in the same boat honestly and I'm calling it the 4 month sleep regression, but as I said my DD is taking her NF a lot earlier so just watch for hunger earlier in the night :)

We are also having an awkward time in the evening with A times.  I think it depends on your LO, my DD can handle OT fairly well so we usually end up with a long A before bed, or if the weather is nice we go for a walk and she might take a 15 minute CN just to get her through to BT.



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2016, 16:00:55 pm »
You are amazing! So quick as well. :)

We chose to give LO a cat nap now at 5.30 pm, he fell asleep without any fuss in the stroller - we'll give him 30 minutes there. The naps today has been really good! Not as good as when he was 3 months old, but a lot better than yesterday. :)

Our little guy is not too good on handling OT. The first and last A times of the day are always a bit shorter than the rest - or else he gets really upset. So, we normally take around 30-45 minutes of winding down before he falls asleep at BT, and 5-10 minutes before naps, to avoid OT - and it almost always works. He rarely cries.

I tried feeding DS at 3 am last night, but he was still waking frequently after that (not wanting to eat). We were trying to push his 4 am NF forward until it coincides with breakfast, i.e., the 7 am feed. Is that a correct way of eliminating NF:s? Or should I decrease the amount of time I breast feed until it's down to zero? If I remember correctly, that's how Tracy recommends to eliminate DF when solids are firmly established?

Maybe you have saved us from the 4 month sleep regression? I'm not going to count my chickens just yet.. But you've got my hopes up. We can get through this!

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2016, 01:51:12 am »
I would maybe just hold off on any major moved to eliminate NFs right now.  It is perfectly normal for a 4 month old to need multiple feeds in the night, especially during growth spurts (4 months, 6 months).  My DD went from 1 NF back to 2 over the last few weeks and my DS didn't drop them until he was 8 months old. 

If he doesn't handle OT well then best to offer a CN if you can, it sounds like that worked well for you?




Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2016, 10:23:25 am »
Ah, OK, then we'll wait a bit longer before eliminating NF!

DS got his first cold yesterday: coughing and feverish - and also super tired. Napped 2 hrs in the morning, mid day and afternoon. Didn't sleep too well during the night, NF at 9.30, 1.00 and 3.00.. He even cried a bit (!), we figured maybe he had some pain in his ear/throat? Gave him some Paracetamol and it calmed down.

Today we're trying to push his A times still. He manages 1,75 hrs in the morning quite OK now. Aimed for 2 hrs second A time, but he was really tired and almost cried after 1 hr 50 min, so I sent DH for a walk with LO in the stroller - he fell asleep within a minute (LO, not DH). :)

We will keep extending A times towards 2 hrs, it seems like LO is ready for that now - which he wasn't a couple of weeks ago. And hopefully that will shed some light over this 4 month sleep regression.

How are things working out for you and DD? Would you mind sharing the routine you're using for her right now? It would be interesting to see how you do it! :)

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2016, 01:58:33 am »
If he doesn't make it to 2hrs that's okay, we sometimes bounce anywhere from 1.45-2hrs and I just try to watch her cues.  Also, if he's feeling a little unwell A times can really decrease.

Our routine has been a bit wonky lately because my DD needs to go usually 4hrs between feeds, so sometimes if she has a later NF she doesn't want to eat when she wakes up, so we sometimes end up with a A-E-A-S routine (like today).  Today was:

NF 4am
WU 6:45am

A 6:45 - 8am
E 8am
A
S 8:45am - 10:30am (woke after 45mins and I resettled her)

A 10:30am
E 11:45am
S 12:30 - 1:50

Then we went to friends so the day went wonky

A 1:50
E 3:45
A
S 4:45 - 5:15 (clearly OT!)

A 5:15
E 6:45pm
S 7pm



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2016, 09:34:58 am »
Same here! 4 hrs between feedings is no problem, but A times and sometimes naps are shorter than 2 hrs. Good to know that AEAS-routines also work. :)

LO is now well and happy, but I have a fever and not feeling to awesome. We'll stay in today and practice to take all naps in the crib (normally we take one of the naps during a 2 hr stroller walk). Wish me luck!

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2016, 10:24:00 am »
Try to get some rest for yourself if you are feeling unwell!



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 14:44:52 pm »
Thank you, I'm starting to feel better (after spending almost three days in bed sleeping or in the sofa playing with/feeding LO). :)

Just one more question:

If LO wakes up from the last nap around 4 pm - do I give him a cat nap at 5.30-6 and BT at 7-7.30? Or do I move BT to 6 pm? What would you do?


Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2016, 15:43:14 pm »
It really depends, I kind of play it by ear.  My DD can handle OT fairly well and she generally likes an earlier BT anyway, so I would opt for a long A before bed and maybe a 6:30 BT.  If I don't do that I would maybe take her for a walk after dinner and hope for a 15-20min CN in the stroller to get her through to a 7pm BT.  She is pretty well in bed by 7pm at the latest no matter what, she is not a party animal lol



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2016, 06:51:19 am »
I'm back again.. We have tried putting LO to bed earlier, around 6.30 and it has been working fine. He now manages 3 naps a day (1,75+2+0,75 hrs). The A times are also working fine.

BUT.. The past two nights have been awful. He sleeps from 6.30-10 pm, wakes and feeds. Then he wakes every 20-30 minutes almost all night long! It's exhausting, both for us and for him, the poor little thing. He's not hungry, won't take bottle or breast until around 4 am.

What's going on? What are we doing wrong?

The one thing that I can think of is that he's starting to Houdini his way out of the swaddle and so we leave the left arm out (we have never swaddled his legs). So now he rubs his face and accidentally pulls the paci out. We want to wean the swaddle since he's rolling over easily. Also, maybe we should wean from the paci since he wakes up when it falls out? Is this how the nights are going to be now??

Any help is SO appreciated!

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2016, 17:18:47 pm »
I would say that weaning the swaddle is absolutely contributing to those NW.  We tired to wean last week and had exactly the same experience after which I decided neither of us were ready and promptly strapped her back into that straight jacket lol.  If you are ready to wean then keep going, but just expect a few rough nights until he gets a handle on him having his hand loose.

I've heard of a product called a Zipadee Zip which is a sleep sac in a star shape that is supposed to help with swaddle weaning - they are able to move their arms but not enough so that they are flailing everywhere.  I haven't tried it myself but I've seen in recommended around here.

As for the paci, it is completely up to you, but if it were me I'd hold out a bit longer to see if he learns to put it back in himself with his free hands.  If he does then it shouldn't become a prop, if he doesn't then it might be time to think about weaning that also.



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2016, 06:15:23 am »
Yup, that's what I thought - I was afraid of weaning the swaddle.. But since he's rolling all over the place, we don't really have a choice. Tonight we just removed the swaddle all together. He slept solidly from 6.30-9pm, but then woke up maybe once every 60-90 minutes between 9pm - 4 am, then he fed and slept until 6.30 am (probably super tired).

I've been trying to get a hold of the Zipadee Zip (or the Baby Merlin Magical sleep suit) but they are nowhere to be found in Sweden. And delivery + shipping + customs from the US would cost me over 100 USD, so I just sewed a Zipadee Zip of my own last night. We're trying it for the first time now, during the first nap of the day: he fell asleep on his own (with the paci) after 10 minutes of babbling. BUT, the first nap has always been the easiest, so..

Regarding the paci, I think we'll keep it for now and see how it goes. If we're up all night doing the paci dance, then we'll just have to get rid of that too.

Thank you again for your thoughts!

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2016, 01:36:33 am »
Oh my goodness you must be exhausted!  I think you will probably have a few rough nights before it starts to get better, hang in there!  This is going to be me soon!

Good thought in the paci I think.  Once his arms are free and he can control his movements he may learn to replug himself. My DS did thank goodness, we'd just leave about 10 in his crib so he could always find one lol



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2016, 14:01:37 pm »
Update! Nights are getting better. No swaddle now for 6 days - and it has actually gone better than I thought. He now sleeps 7-10.30 pm, then wakes up for "dream feed". Sleeps until 2 am, resettle/paci. Sleeps until 4 am, eats, sleeps until 6 pm. Fusses/sleeps until 6.45 am and then I give up and just get up for the day! ;)

So, now we're starting to think that maybe we should remove the paci - since I believe that's why he's waking up/fusses in the early morning hours.. He's not able to replug himself yet.

A times are between 1 hr 45 min - 2 hrs now, and itīs going really well. We still have 4 naps per day most of the time, sometimes 3. Duration 1-2 hrs and a catnap in the afternoon. So over all - everything is improving.

How are things going for you? Have you started weaning from the swaddle? I can actually recommend the ZipadeeZip, it has worked for us (I think?).  :)

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2016, 16:47:14 pm »
Great progress!  You are a braver soul than I...we are still swaddling.  She just settles so easily with the swaddle I don't know how I am going to being myself to stop!  My DD wakes and rolls around in the early morning hours too, around 5am usually, and while I can usually resettle her, the sleep is more fitful.

If you find that he is regularly doing 1 nap that is an hour or less you may need to push those A times again.  They really move up fast between 4-6 months.




Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2016, 15:25:06 pm »
I totally understand - the swaddle is amazing when it works. :)

We removed the pacifier yesterday! He was waking up every single time it fell out, so we were doing the "paci dance" every nap and at night time.. We were a bit nervous about it all, since we just recently took away the swaddle. DS cried for almost 40 minutes around BT, but he calmed down with sssh/pat and holding hands. Slept really well for 3 hrs, ate, slept 3 more hrs then started to fuss. Cried off and on for 1,5 hrs, then BF, sssh/pat and fell asleep - and slept SO well until 6 am. Me and DH got another 2 hrs of shut eye - amazing. Every nap today has been really good without the paci: 1,5 + 2 + 0,75 hrs. So now we're just hoping BT tonight will be easier..

I will really try to push the A times! He's now managing 1,45 + 2 + 2 + 2,15. So the next step is going to be pushing the first A time.. Right?

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2016, 13:44:39 pm »
Amazing progress! You guys have done fantastic!

Yes pushing the first A is likely the next step.  I find our first A is always usually a little less as well, sometimes she can only manage 2hrs where the other A's she doing somewhere between 2.15-2.5hrs. 

I think we need to make the push to wean the swaddle as she's starting to want to sleep on her side.  I need to mentally prepare myself for the lack of sleep lol. 



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2016, 16:00:56 pm »
Thank you! Yes, we will continue working on the A times. I would say that has been the key for us in order to overcome this 4 month sleep regression. :)

BT yesterday: 20 minutes of crying/fussing, then sleep. Some crying after 3 am feed, but that was due to hunger.. The breast feeding is almost not enough for him now, so I had to add some formula even at night time. Naps today have all been amazing without the paci. Removing the pacifier har been the best move we've made so far (even though falling asleep is a bit harder now, he doesn't wake up so often).

I will keep my fingers crossed for you as you start to wean the swaddle! As you said earlier, just a couple of rough nights..

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2016, 14:23:06 pm »
Yes pushing the first A is likely the next step.  I find our first A is always usually a little less as well, sometimes she can only manage 2hrs where the other A's she doing somewhere between 2.15-2.5hrs. 

I need your thoughts again! Our third nap (the cat nap) has gone bananas for the last four days. LO is screaming, crying and will not settle. After maybe 1 hr of this, he falls asleep out of pure exhaustion. We're not used to him crying, and it's just awful. We've tried PU/PD, but it just makes him even more upset, so we're doing Shhh/pat - not so successfully.

Naps are 1,5+1,5+0,75. A times are now 2+2,25+2,5+2,25 hrs. Well, if you count the screaming/crying before the third nap it's up to 3,5 hrs - which is not good.

Any suggestions?

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2016, 00:17:08 am »
What time does your last nap typically end?  Sometimes if our 2 naps are long enough I pull BT forward a bit and we don't do the CN.  That said the morning nap needs to be 1.45-2hrs before that can happen otherwise it's too long of an A to BT with no CN.

I wonder if you stretch the first A a bit if it will get you a bit longer nap?  Even if the A is 15mins longer and the nap is 15mins longer that pushes you 30mins closer to BT at the end of the day, yk?



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2016, 05:42:56 am »
Thanks again for your quick response!

The cat nap used to be around 5 pm, but is now around 3 or 4 pm (as we're trying to go from 4 to 3 naps). We've adjusted BT to around 6.30 pm, otherwise the last A time is way too long. Also, our DS has now started waking up quite early.. The past 5 days it's been 5.45 or 6 am (it used to be around 6.45 or 7 am). So, that's one major thing that throws our routine off a bit and moves te cat nap earlier.

So, for the past 5 days it's roughly:

WU 5.45 (I let him babble and coo for 45 minutes, he doesn't fall back asleep - but he's not unhappy either).
E 6.30 (VERY hungry)
A 6.45
S 7.45-9.15/9.30 (He manages this on his own now, no need for help or resettling. Wakes super happy.)

E 10.00
A 10.15
S 11.30-1.00

E 2.00
A 2.15
S 3.15/3.30/4 (screams, cries, takes forever to settle. We've tried earlier and later nap times here, no improvement. Don't know if OT or UT?) Sleeps for 30 minutes, wakes not so happy.

E 5.45/6.00
A 6.15
S/BT 6.30/6.45 (cries for maybe 5-15 minutes)

As I told you before, the nights have improved a lot since we removed the paci. He sleeps from 6.30-10 pm, feeds. Then 10.15-03 am, feeds. Then sleeps 03.15-05.45, babbles happily until I pick him up at around 6.30.

So, I will try pushing the first A time even further, and maybe get a longer first nap? Do you think this may improve the cat nap situation? Do you have any advice regarding the earlier WU?

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2016, 11:42:35 am »
Okay, yes I see...the early starts are kind of perpetuating an early day in general.  I actually think that first nap might actually be a sort of extension of night sleep.   We get the 5:30/45am WUs too but I try to treat them as a NW or AP if needed.  So I first try to resettle in the crib and if that doesn't work I will rock her, bring her in with me, hold her...anything really to get her to sleep a little bit longer and start the day off later.  Even if I can get a 6:30 WU we go with that, which pushes everything out a little more.  I think if you maybe try that and a slightly longer first A then it will cut your naps down to 3 and hopefully he won't fight the nap in the late afternoon.  Does that make sense?



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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2016, 04:37:26 am »
Thank you again, I really appreciate you taking your time answering all my questions! :)

We tried yesterday pushing the first A time to 2 hrs 15 min, and he wouldn't settle at all for the first nap. He screamed for 1 hr and then "passed out" after 3 hrs 15 min wake time.. Then the next A time was short and he was quite cranky. Nap nr 2 was 1 hr (usually 1,5-2). And so, the dreaded nap nr 3: he cried so hard I was worried he would stop breathing. After almost 2,5 hrs of screaming, he went down for 30 minutes (4 hrs A time total). So, yesterday was a DISASTER. I think I cried almost as much as LO (and DH).

This night everything was off, he ate here and there, woke up several times. WU now 4.45 am. Left him to babble for 20 min, wouldn't fall asleep again. I tried to resettle in the crib for 20 min, wouldn't work. Picked him up, tried to feed him but he wasn't hungry. So, finally, after 1,5 hrs I picked him up and here we are.

It feels like we're going backwards.. We have an unhappy little guy who now cries for several hours a day (which he hasn't done ever) and I'm a mess. Please help!

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2016, 12:03:51 pm »
BW is all about listening to your baby so if you think the A time push was too much, then just scale back.  It is all trial and error so we never know what will happen until we try.  I tried a 2.25 A time the other day and ended up with OT naps, so I knew we'd gone too far.  The other thing to remember is that the odd bad day isn't necessarily a good representation of what your LO can handle, they have off days just like we do :)



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2016, 07:55:26 am »
Thank you, that is so true. I went back to 1 hr 45 min for the first A time today, and he went down without any crying. Only slept for 45 minutes though, so probably a bit UT.. Haha, it's so difficult to find the perfect A time! :)

We felt we've had to take a step backwards the past week. We're back to 4 naps. LO falls asleep more easily, without crying, in the stroller - so we go for walks several times a day. Even though the naps are only 40-50 minutes, LO seems more rested and happier. He slept really well tonight - and so did we. We needed to charge our batteries before starting over, with a new plan.

So, for now, we just do what works ("planned AP"), we figure that it's better to get some sleep - even if it's not in his own bed - than to scream your lungs out for 2 hrs and then only get a 30 min nap.. Hopefully the wind will change soon and we will be back on track!

Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2016, 11:18:18 am »
BW is all about listening to your baby so if you think the A time push was too much, then just scale back.  It is all trial and error so we never know what will happen until we try.  I tried a 2.25 A time the other day and ended up with OT naps, so I knew we'd gone too far.  The other thing to remember is that the odd bad day isn't necessarily a good representation of what your LO can handle, they have off days just like we do :)

Short update! We're back on track. :)

A times are now increasing (2-2,5 hrs), naps are improving (1,5+1,5+0,5 hrs), the NW:s are decreasing (2) and WU is later (6.30 or 7 am, thanks to a bit of AP, but still..). Hopefully the crying before naps was just a phase - we now have our happy LO back!

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 4 month sleep regression?
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2016, 11:50:27 am »
Sounds great!  The other thing I just thought of is that wonder weeks often have a big impact on their mood.  We are in a "cloudy" period ourselves!