23.5 mo LSN help and input

[ginger428]

DS has had a few 9.5 hr nights, with capping nap at 1.5 hrs and waking before a certain time. It's frustrating because he is SO cranky when he gets less than 10 hrs. But he takes forever to fall asleep at night!

He seems really tired some mornings and fell asleep more than an hr before his usual nap time one afternoon. We might be in an UT/OT cycle? What do I do with that?

Our usual routine-

WU 6:30
Nap 1-2:30
BT 8:00

Lately it's been:

WU 6:15/6:30
Nap 11:45/12:30 (he fell asleep in the car or was yawning and starting to meltdown at home)
BT between 8:00-9:00 (even with a 7:20/7:30ish put down, tried 7:45)

Naps are between 1.10-1.30.

Any help is appreciated.

[ginger428]

DS woke at 5:45! Asleep at 8:20. That's less than 9.5 hrs. Ugh!!
Am I putting him down too late?

[Haribo2012]

I'd go for a much earlier BT rule out OT. Could be developmental of his Bday is coming up too x

[athenasmom]

We just went through a cycle like this with DD. Our LO's seems very similar as usual  I totally think it's developmental. I noticed with DD that this occurs about every 2-3 months. She usually falls asleep within minutes easily but when she is in this cycle it takes her longer and she gets OT from it. EBT does not work here either, it just prolongs the BT struggle and/or leads to EW. Sorry, not much help but with us it is just matter of riding it out. How long has this been going on?

[ginger428]

Thanks Zoe and Suzanna.

Zoe, I am going to try for an earlier BT depending on his nap today. Sometimes he fights BT and cries during our routine, or wakes more during the night when I do this, like Suzanna mentioned, but I think the OT is catching up.

Suzanna, yes, I remember how similar A and M are. It's been a couple of weeks. You are so right about this happening every 2-3 months, except lately it's been every few weeks off and on. I'm sure it's a combination of developmental leap, growth spurt, teething, and illness. It's just overwhelming for me as I tend to obsess over his sleep and being a FTM doesn't help. I wish I could relax and let it go better.

My current dilemma is that he seems to be self-regulating his short nights with naps and will sleep longer if I let him. But just a month ago or so, I was here trying to figure out how his sleep needs were changing and ended up capping his nap and waking at a certain time.  Do I let him catch up? It certainly does mess with BT though. What did you do?

Oh yeah, and about 3 weeks ago, he refused a nap! What a strange stage... haha.

[athenasmom]

I have the same dilemma but because she is in daycare this is pretty much out of my hands  I asked the daycare lady to cap her naps to 1hour 45 min - 1.5 hours but she has not really followed that. I am not sure whether it would have helped or not though. On weekends I capped her naps and it did not do much

[jessmum46]

Wanted others to comment first but I would also have suggested a much earlier bedtime to rule out OT.  I think Ben is probably a bit higher sleep needs but with your routine of WU 6.30, nap 1-2.30 he'd be in bed for 7pm rather than 8.  I'd be putting down for 7 for a bit and see where it gets you x

[trimbler]

Hey there Ginger sorry can't read through properly now so just dropping off hugs and will be back later We're also going through a rough patch with DD and nights Tried earlier BT tonight and seemed a bit better settling so we'll see what the rest of the night brings...

[ginger428]

Thanks guys!

Nap was very broken and he's acting so off and loopy, I'm definitely going to go for an earlier bedtime and see if that will catch him up. Not a Ebt really, just a put down-30 mins earlier to see if he'll settle sooner. Katherine- if only it were 23 hr days or M slept 11 hr nights right? Haha. .

*Update-
Ugh. Everything was off. Nap was 12:30-2:10, with 3-4 resettles. Was aiming for a put down at 7:00. Tried for dinner at 5:30, he wouldn't eat until after 6. M got hysterical during BT routine and cried for 20 mins. Finally got him down at 7:30. Fell asleep at 8:05.

Trimbler, sorry to hear about DD and nights. Thanks for the hugs! How much earlier did you do with DD?

[-Maya-]

Hugs Ginger! I know too well what you mean about being obsessed by ds sleep. To us ebt does not work very well to rule out ot. I put ds in bed 30min earlier when he is very tired but it usually takes 30 to 45 min for him to fall asleep. In terms of total sleep does not help but it helps to avoid further stimulation for him. Ds usually catches up ot in very rare long naps coupled with very low key days.

[ginger428]

9 hr night. EW at 5am. Nap was 1.10. I tried hard to get him in bed by 7, but met resistance and more crying. Same thing happened the other night I tried to put him down early. I only tried twice but he seems to want at least 5.5 to bed (which is what he was doing consistently before it was thrown off). One of the last 3 nights, he went down around 7:40 (we were out and got back late) and he went to bed fine. Morning was fine too.

Suggestions for nap and BT today? Should I let him catch iup on sleep? He's been yawning all morning. 

[jessmum46]

Hugs, I know how frustrating this is for you. Yes I would let him catch up, because I suspect whatever this started out as it has now become OT.  Remind me is he teething?  When canines were coming through here's literally nothing worked routine wise and we just had to stick with our normal plan on the basis at least we knew what we were doing that way. 

Ok just going to throw this out there - yes I totally get he could be very LSN.  (Not my realm of experience really, DD was lower needs but did long nights with her shorter naps, and B is not LSN).  In which case I would say once you get a good day you need to start capping his nap to 1h and see if his nights get better.  But what if really he's not LSN at all?  I just wonder if the fact that you say he only does x hours at night or needs x hours before bed prevents you trying something that may just work?  Just musing and please ignore me if you wish!  But to me a 5am WU, 1h10 nap and crying at 7pm bedtime would have said way OT by bedtime, not UT.  I just wonder if you get super-brave and try a really really EBT one day whether it may just pay off?  Say he always wakes after 9/10 hours....what if you had him in bed for 6pm?  He'd wake at 3/4am and no way is he going to start the day then, his body clock won't let him!  And you should (eventually) get a resettle and maybe get him out of this cycle?

But as ever, mummy knows best and I will readily admit that super LSN is not my forte . Just wish I could make it better for you! 

[athenasmom]

I agree with Katherine that you can try one night to see if he catches up like that. This little sleep and loooong day definitely causes him to be OT now. what happens when he gets hysterical at BT? What do you do? I am just asking because with my kids I know that when they are OT I will have to help them get to sleep. And it is OK ... you know because once they are past the OT they get back to independent sleep just fine. Does maybe patting or holding longer settle him? When DD is OT I will stay next to her crib until she falls asleep and even pat her or rub her back. It feels like a step back for sure but I know that she needs it. Also, I know this might not be something you want to do ... but I have used melatonin in cases like that with DS and with DD too. I only use it maybe a couple nights until they catch up then stop using it. Melatonin is over to counter here in the US and you can pick it up in any pharmacy. It is not a sedative just a natural way to help an active brain to settle down for sleep 

[ginger428]

Maya- thanks for the hugs. Great points about the stimulation. Especially when OT.

Katherine, I always appreciate your valuable input. Thank you so much!

I agree it's currently OT along with whatever began the cycle. Yes, he's teething... canines are halfway through. Those were my thoughts, too... if he has a good day, to start capping nap at 1 hr. We have had a few 1 hr naps that don't seem to change the following WU, so does it take time for that to change? You actually suggested on fb to shave 15 min off nap at a time, and we were on our way there when sleep went awry. (And some sickness, etc... mixed in).

Oh, I know what you mean Katherine...thank you for the suggestion because it's good to evaluate all possibilities when sleep goes south.  I am scared of doing early BT because he has waken as early as 4:30 or will have long NWs.  One day 2 weeks ago he woke at 3 and was up for 2 hours.  I also thought about him being LSN, and I went back and scoured previous sleep logs and it seems like that no matter what I did, he gave me consistent 10-10.5 nights, with an occasional 11 hr night mixed in. He was also averaging 12 or so hrs/day back at 18 months. And when he was younger, we always did early BT, around 5:30-6:00pm, but NWs were plentiful and his total sleep always added to about 12-13 (for when he was under 1yo).  Also as a baby, he never met the 15-16 hrs/day that I heard of. He was always about 2 hrs below the average.  Some posts on here helped me finally realize that he might be LSN and it was such a relief in a way. I constantly felt like I was doing something wrong.  I've come to learn that it is such a HUGE guessing game and that in the end, our bubs will come out fine. The ride there, however, is devastating for parents, isn't it? Haha.

I am so confused... haha. I wish you could make it go away, too. LOL. Thanks for the hugs. I had been positive for so long regarding his sleep and now am back to feeling so exasperated. I also feel extremely guilty because there are more important things in life than obsessing over his sleep!

As for today, I think we'll do an early lunch and nap, and hopefully an early BT. We'll see if that yields a good night sleep. Thanks so much!!!

[ginger428]

Suzanna, hi! Yes will try an EBT today. And yes, I stay and pat or hold to help calm him. Had to do that this morning also at 5am when he woke... he was upset and crying. I held and rocked to see if he'll fall back asleep. Then laid him down and tried patting. Then once calm, I lay next to the crib, but he never fell back asleep.  Maybe it is teeth. Who knows. A couple nights ago, DH also had to stay in the room and pat to calm him. Thanks for all the suggestions!!