Cat naps and not connecting sleep cycles?

[Anika920]

My LO is 15m! How did I ever survive?!    He has started waking up a bit earlier for the day and only getting about 10-105h at night. 11 was pretty typical for him prior. He might be in the 2-1 transition, but his naps are still pretty crappy and the early mornings are not helping. It seems that the early mornings started happening when he naps got short and I started trying to figure out if I was keeping him up too long or what?! He might have been ready for the 2-1 transition at that time, but now he seems so thrown off if I try for 1 nap he wakes at 30m and cries. Sometimes he will go back to sleep, sometimes not and then there doesn't seem to be enough time in the day to try again and we are stuck in this vicious cycle of EBT and EW. So I am holding onto 2 naps right now until he can get back on track a little, but it's not particularly working well. He is waking up in the morning and pooping right away. I am not sure if this is what is causing him to wake. When he was doing okay with naps he was pretty consistent about pooping at all his meals. Now he is pooping at random times and often times it is during naps, so it is keeping him from settling When things got off it was like everything got off. I can't seem to figure out why his first nap no matter if I stretch him is not longer and why that sleep cycle is not connecting but his 2nd nap he typically does pretty well with. He seems to fall asleep with 3.5-4h wake time but he fights sleep also. ( I was/am a sleep fighter myself)

here's a typical day

awake: 6-6:30 (used to wake 7-7:45 7:30 on average)

1st nap falls asleep between 10-10:30 usually only 30m occasionally 40/45m rarely 1h

2nd nap falls asleep between 2:15/3 and usually an hour long nap.

BT: 7:30/7:45 Asleep by 8 (BT used to be

He is not known to be a great napper. Typically he naps on the low side where 1h is considered a good nap at our house.

[ginger428]

Hi there, just wanted to say hugs for the troubles. And I totally share the sentiment "how did we/are we survive(ing)!" Gosh, I don't miss this stage at all! But every few months we're in another sleep struggle along with some wonderful development and cuteness overload. =P

I could be wrong but I wonder if he's ready for the first nap to be a catnap, 15-20min, and the second nap brought forward/earlier. There's a link on BW about this, have you seen it? This may help him be more tired for bedtime. We did this when we were transitioning to 1 nap. And often, our first catnap was as early as 9:30am (APOP in car) because he was OT from the adjustment. It took a several months for us because DS transitioned so early (10 mo), but he eventually consolidated and elongated his nap to 1.5-2 hrs. And our set nap time started around 11:00 once we lost the catnap, and in a few weeks got to 12:00ish. Closer to 19mo/20mo we were around 12:30. And now at 23mo we're at 1:00, but hit some a patch of EWhths so naps are happening slightly earlier.

[Anika920]

I was working with a sleep consultant who had him on a 9a nap then 3h nap 2 and BT at 4.5h.  The first day he did okay on it. After that things were all over the place and the EBT started just causing even EWs and even night wakes! I don't know what was going on with all that, but his whole system was thrown off. He was waking around 5:30 and pooping then falling back to sleep around 6/6:30 and up for the day by 6:45ish. I didn't realize that when he was waking at 5:30 he was pooping until after finishing working with her.  I almost wonder if I would have changed him and put him back in the crib if he would have slept longer.

I honestly hate EBT. I have fought it and fought it and once I finally did EBT it seems like he is waking earlier and not particularly getting more night sleep. Dad doesn't get home until 6:30 most nights so honestly having him in bed before 7:30 just does not work for our family. SO I would like to keep a set BT of 7:30/8. We have been putting him to bed around 7:45 and he is usually asleep by 8:20. but that means barely a 10h night 10.5h is good anymore. 

I don't know if he would fall asleep in the car. I could try seeing if he will take that earlier catnap because I do think that he would benefit from an earlier 2nd nap. My issue with getting him to sleep is he is a fighter. He pretty much always has been so some days it feels like that all we are doing is hanging out in the crib and getting little actual sleep. He has currently been in his crib since 2:10 and I think just now fell asleep at 2:55 (maybe). He looked like he was sleeping or settling around 2:20 but then he gets up and fusses, sitting/standing just anything to stay up. So I do think that I need to get more BTC. I read the link on BTC thanks for pointing it out to me.

What would you suggest as far as timing for early cat nap and brought forward nap times? Thank you for your time!

[ginger428]

We used a sleep program too. I'll be back to respond more thoroughly but I forgot to mention that we also had poop issues and EBT/EW issues for a while. Your post sounds just like mine months back.  I think I deleted my thread on that unfortunately. I'll be back!

[ginger428]

Pooping during naps and early morning was the bane of my existence during this transition.  Apparently, sleep rhythm correlate with the hunger/digestive cycle as we both realized. I think 2-1 is a messy transition. I think if you hold with a new routine, the pooping will eventually work out. It did for us.  Until then, I would change the diaper and put back down as if it was a night wake, just like you mentioned.  I APOP'd this too, so held him back to sleep if needed. I wasn't a fan of EBT either but you might have to compromise and put him down at 7:15, 7:30 latest for a little while, until his naps consolidate.

What time is he falling asleep at bedtime? Still 8?

What's BTC?

As for nap times, something like this...

WU 6:00/6:30
CN 9:30-9:50 (20 min at first)
N 1:00-2:00 (3.10 to nap)
BT 7:30 (5.5 to bed)

TBH, BT seems a little late for this transition period. You'll probably get some OT if you don't bring BT slightly earlier temporarily. I think it's super hard for lower sleep needs babies (as mine was) during this transition because there are too many awake hours and the WU time and nap lengths affect the routine... and they can't quite handle the super long A's yet.

What do you think? Do you think your DS can handle this?

Maybe after about 3-4 days, reassess and see if you can shorten the catnap to 15mins. It took us a couple of weeks, actually, to go from 20 to 15, eventually to 5 mins and dropping the morning cn.  We ended up having to reverse the cn to the evening after that point because then the first and only nap was so early and DS couldn't make it to bedtime. So complicated!

[Anika920]

We seem to basically have this but he is not falling asleep quickly so he tends to push everything around. It drives me nuts! He rarely falls asleep in 10/15m it's usually 20m on a good day and 40-60m on bad days! He just fights it and I can't tell if it's over or under tired. He shows sleep cues but won't sleep! He's a stinker about sleep.

BTC is by the clock

So you're only expecting him to have an hour nap? That's basically what he is doing now just later times. And his cat nap is 30m wakes on his own. If he  pushes his wake time a bit sometimes that first nap is 40-60m and his 2nd nap is 30m that's what happened today. But it wasn't very restful sleep for him. He had a hard time settling and then woke and resettled himself for the first nap. It seemed like he wanted to go back to sleep for #2 but was unable.

When we were doing EBT prior it was way early like 6 so he was waking at 5:30. One morning even 4:30!!! But like I said I know now it was poop. I was just leaving him and he would resettle and not fuss much I just knew he was awake.

Yes he is falling asleep a little after 8. He was in bed by 7:40 though tonight. Asleep by 8:15
I wouldn't mind putting him to bed earlier if I knew it wouldn't just mean he would wake earlier. I really don't know how to deal with that aspect. It's throwing everything off that he's napping poorly and only having a 10h night. He was doing this with EBT too. But TBH the bedtime was 4.5h not 5.5. That is more realistic