Nap advice - timings, dummy and shush/pat

[Sunnyday01]

Hi

This is my first post here so hopefully I've put it in th er ight place!

My little boy is 12 weeks old, and we have been loosely following the EASY routine for about 3 weeks,mon roughly a 3 hour routine. The thing we seems to be struggling with though is sleep, particularly naps.

DS is bottle fed, and has 6oz every three hours, we used to feed to sleep but have now broken that cycle with activity in between. He also used to have a bit of reflux so have to keep him upright for 20-30 mins after a feed which meant from an early age he was used to sleeping in our arms. However we have made progress and can get him to sleep without being in our arms or have a feed,

We have been using shush pat with varying success, we tried it on our shoulder but it didn't seem to work at all, so now we have started putting him straight in the moses basket and tapping his arms or chest lightly. Sometimes it works, but most of the time he gets extremely upset and will just scream and scream. We have resorted to using a dummy to calm him down, and it worked, but it seems now we can't get him to sleep without it. The bedtime sleep is different as he has a bottle right before bed. When he screams shush pat does not seem to work at all. I'm not sure if I should just persevere through the crying, and keep shush patting as eventually he will burn himself out or just hang on in there for a few more weeks until we can do PUPD method.

Anyone have any thoughts on the dummy - I don't want it to become a prop so I think maybe getting rid of it now whilst he isn't too attached may be a good idea?

In the day we also seem to have short naps in the Moses basket of about 40 minutes, I have tried differing lengths off activity time but it doesn't seem to make any difference he still wakes up - he does jolt/fidget quite a bit in his sleep though and at are ound 35 minutes always seems to jolt - I'm wondering if he is having issues going from one sleep cycle to another (although he doesn't at night). If we go out in the pram for a mid morning walk he always drifts off for a much longer period. It's hard to work out if he maybe prefers a short morning and afternoon nap and a longer lunchtime nap?

I feel quite confused about it all, and having red both books feel that once he gets to 4 months there is so much more we can do, so maybe just need to hang in there until that point!

[Bella89]

Hi there and welcome to BW forums:)

Could you please, write down your routine in an easy format for me to look at? For example:
7:00 WU and 6oz
9:00-11:00 S
11:15 6oz

Also, is he draining 6oz each time? I doubt it, but still worth asking:)

On the pacifier... First I want to tell you it is solely my opinion and advice. Just because opinions on that are so different. Or maybe I will tell you my story rather than give you advice:0

Your post is like our story a year ago!!! I was starting new thread about quiting pacifier every 3 months. It was bothering me soooo much. It still is.  I know my son needed the pacifier up to the age of 6 months I think. When he was born he needed sucking so much that he emptied my breast in 5 min max. He would never ever fall asleep without a pacifier. That's why I knew I had a sucky baby and pacifier is needed here. I tried to limit it and got to a point where DS was falling asleep with it and used it for comfort when woke at night (but I removed it when he was in deep sleep). DS is now 15 months. I have just put him down and said someone took the paci and he only left the cover from it. So DS was in shock for a while (but didn't cry) and fell asleep holding pacifier cover:p YAY me:)

What I am trying to say is... Pacifier is not evil, sometimes it's helpful!!! Think of it as bringing your child relief.
It's just what you do with it next. I think I lost first signs of being ready to quit it, and I had to wait so long (Until my son actually told me "NO" when I shoved paci into his mouth automatically at night:( It woke me up!! With second child, I know I will try to quit it sooner, at 6-7 months or whenever I will see the signs (sleeping longer when without it, smaller sucking need)

My advice would be:
-Leave it for now, if you feel your child needs it
-Take it out when your baby is in deep sleep
-Do what you're fully comfortable with, make your mind and stick to it
-Watch the signs

What do you think?
I'm here if you need anything
PS. Sorry I turned it into my story too much:'/

[Sunnyday01]

Thanks for your response Bella, our routine is roughly

6.45-7 - wake up, happy change and 6oz bottle (he does drain all his bottles and we find he pften wants the dummy after too)
7.15-8.15 activity - I generally watch for signs of tiredness but he's very vague as he yawns quite a lot anyway even after a big sleep abd rarely looks drowsy!
8.15 onwards trying to get him to sleep - can get alot of screaming but so stinks settles easier if has dummy
8.45 asleep
9.15-9.20 wake up - generally smiling etc but 10 mins later can be grumpy do activity until next feed

10 - feed and nappy
10.15-10.45 activity but generally grumpy so usually put him in pram and go for a walk
11.15-1.30 sleep - he often has a long sleep over lunch and I often have to wake him up
1.30 feed and nappy
1.45-2.45/3 - activity but can be grizzly even if had long sleep
3-4 - trying to get him to sleep/usually 40 minute sleep
4/4.15 feed and nappy
Then low key activity until 5 when go for a short walk to get a catnap - he struggles to get through to bedtime without this but at the moment u chsng get him to do it any other way
 5-5.30 catnap

6.15 bath, pyjamas on
6.45 bottle and bed

I really realky want to get to a point where I can put him in the Moses basket/cot snd leave him - I know we are a long way from this at the moment. I realise I have been doing shush pat wrong as I e never laid him in the Moses basket and let him fuss for 20 mins to see if he will go to sleep however I have a feeling he will just cry and cry, although even when I pick him up he sometimes don't settke snd still cries. It's do hard to wTch him go all red snd scream!

Thanks for the advice on the dummy, he does iften spit it out but I do wonder when he wakes up after 40 minutes if he needs the dummy to go back to sleep.

[Bella89]

Hi, so sorry for late reply, lots of stuff going on

Thanks for the advice on the dummy, he does iften spit it out but I do wonder when he wakes up after 40 minutes if he needs the dummy to go back to sleep

You can always try to settle him and give dummy if you feel like nothing is working.

I do have some suggestions that might improve things:)

First of all, I would increase his activity times. I notices you average it out around hour. Here are some hints:
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
Of course when you decide to increase them, try small increments like 10-15 min every 2-3 days.

About bottle feeding. 6oz is a good portion, but I think I got an advice on this forum that whenever LO is draining a bottle it's time to add an oz. Even if it means pouring it into the drain after. It's about making sure your baby is not hungry.

[Sunnyday01]

Thank you for your advice - with regard to activity times - is it 1hr 30 mins from wake up time to sleep?

[Bella89]

It's from eyes open to eyes closed

[Sunnyday01]

GreT thanks, he takes about 20 minutes to settle so at the moment it's just over the hour before going to bed again!

[Sunnyday01]

My LO is 13 weeks old at at present is tending to have a morning nap of 45 mins, a lunchtime nap of 2 hours then another 2 x 45 mins in afternoon, dies this seem ok? I'm worried as BW I dictates shoukd be 1 1/2 hours each time, apart from last one of the day.

I'm concerned that when we move to 4 hour, we are never going to get 2 hour naps!!

[creations]

An ideal routine in terms of sleep would be to link 2 of those 45 min naps together to make one long nap so that in the day there are 2 long naps and 1 CN. However if there is a reason why you can't do that and you feel LO is well rested on the 1 long nap and 3 CNs and everything is running in a consistent, predictable way then really I'd say it's fine.
Many this age are going through short naps (mine did from 3.5- 5.5 months) so getting one long nap is better then no long naps
Some people also run the EASY routine around other commitments or baby groups etc so sometimes the 45 min CNs give more flexibility to the day.

I wouldn't worry too much about what will happen when you move to the 4hr EASY, in my experience routines go off track and get back on track, and whatever you think is going to happen ends up not happening anyway.  If things are working for you now try not to worry too much about what might happen in the future.

[Bella89]

I think it is a little too short for his age. Try increasing it in bits

[Sunnyday01]

Thanks creations, he does seem to struggle with getting more than 45 minutes whatever I seem to do so think I'm just going to have to go with it for now. He's doing ok at night so can't complain too much!

[creations]

It could just be that he needs a slightly longer A time after than lovely 2 hr nap so that he is good an tired for the next nap, add a little soothing (W2S) at the 30 min mark to see him through the transition and he could end up linking those 2 45 min CNs together.

It's something you can try if you wanted to.

[shinysarah]

I think as long as he's not too overtired and it works for you then that's ok?
I've just got my 14 week DD to have a longer nap in the morning rather than the 45 minute mark...not sure if she was just ready or the shhh pat technique won her over, either way I'm sure it'll be different next week anyhow?!?!?
My afternoons are a little bit hit and miss because we're in the car/shopping/picking up DSs from school/baby group... but I think as long as she gets a couple of good naps and sleeps well at night then it's ok, even though it isn't an exact fit!

[Bella89]

Hi there,
just letting you know that I merged your topics as they were about 1 issue.
It keeps everything in 1 place but still gives you different perspectives:)

[Sunnyday01]

So I can't seem to get past the 45minute nap unless we are in the pram, I think the jolts are just that bit too strong and wake him up - so will just go with it for now and see if it passes. He is generally happy when he wakes although often still yawning!

Another thing that has started happening this week is he wakes up around 5.30am - and he is awake awake, happy, smiling and cooing, and gets upset if I try to resettle him. This is far too early for me, I'd prefer after 6, ideally about 6.30am.

He goes to bed about 6.45-7 as he's just had enough by then, is it worth trying to extend his bedtime to later in the evening! Say 7.15 ish? He has about 5 hrs naps across the day so also should I try and reduce this?