Nap advice - timings, dummy and shush/pat

[Sunnyday01]

Was also meant to ask, is the move from 3gr to 4he dictated by need for food or what sleep pattern is like?

[creations]

The A time is fine compared to the guidance times but taking into account the WU time getting earlier and the first nap appearing UT I would be tempted to increase the first A.  How about try 2hr 15 for a few days and see how things go?

[Sunnyday01]

Yes I'll try that I think! I'll let you know how I get on early next week!

Thanks so much for your advice, much appreciated

[creations]

Hope it's going the right way for you

[Sunnyday01]

Sadly not! Phew is still waking around 5ish - not the same time every day but most days have managed to resettle him for another 45 mins or so.

Unfortunately the morning nap is not getting any better - still 45 minutes or less (today was only 32 minutes - so guessing OT) but putting him in moses basket at 2 hours and letting him fuss for 10 mins or so. He wakes up happy and cooing to himself, so it's very difficult to get him re settked,  so I do wonder if he just doesn't need long for his first nap! I'm hopefully going to try the pram tomorrow to see if that makes a difference.

We are also on 3hr easy but think he could easily go 3.5 between feeds but not sure how that would work with his sleeps?

[creations]

If he will feed better on 3.5hr E times then you can move to that, some LO don't feed so well if the E is too short.  Just work out the E and A and S times as you go through the day and if you see one bumping into another bring E a bit earlier or later if it is anyway towards the end of a nap, he can prob go a little longer if he is asleep and eats as soon as he wakes (or he'll wake to eat if it is that important to him - either way he doesn't starve).  It's ok to have a routine such as EASAEASAE if the feed times work out better for him.

[Sunnyday01]

He's not draing his  bottle at 3hrs like he was which makes me think he could go longer but when I get him up from his nap, 15 mins later he is crying - maybe I'm think he is hungry rather than him being tired. The few times I have tried to put him back in his Moses basket he has really cried but maybe I should just work through it.

Having a longer time between E would be better as would give more time to allow for resettling

[creations]

Hmm..not sure.  He shouldn't really be draining his bottle, ideally there would be an oz or so left so that you know he has taken to his fill and needs no more. When LO is draining a bottle it's time to increase the serving size.

I do think it would be helpful to see how he responds to the first nap in his pram, it could help us to see if he would happily take a longer nap if he had the help of the pram movement.  If he does sleep longer then it's a decision about either sleep training in the cot (when you know he does need and can do a longer first nap) or continuing to APOP in the pram.  Some people like pram naps as it means you can get out and about.  Tracy's BW guidance was for naps in the cot...

It may be that he needs a longer first A time to be able to sleep well, mine needed a long first A time and a bit shorter for the rest.
It's quite hard to tell when his routine is to have a CN at home then a long nap in the pram later on, if it works for you that's fine, it's just at this point it makes it difficult to see where he needs A and where he needs sleep training. I hope that makes sense.

For now I would feed as close to 3hrs as you can, possibly 3hr 15 if he doesn't appear hungry at 3hr. If he is taking the milk at 3hr though I'd stay there for a bit.

[Sunnyday01]

With my LO however much I put in the bottle he drinks so unfortunately I can't just keep adding it - HV even advised not to do it so reluctant to keep adding more in!

Yes I think you are right I need to see if he will take a longer nap in the pram for his first nap to establish whether he needs a longer nap. If he dowes go longer than I know we need to do some sleep training to get him to go for longer. As you say it will also help with knowing if it's an increase in A times he needs or sleep training. I do like to go out for a walk each day to get fresh air etc but as he gets older I'd like it to be when he is awake rather than to get him to sleep if that makes sense.

I've got a good friend who is a fan of another method and she keeps telling me that he doesn't need all the sleep the BW suggests. She isn't helping my stress levels as I feel very confused about what is the right thing to do. He is so happy when he wakes up!

[creations]

I have only ever heard of babies eating to their fill and supplying what they need. I am very surprised a HV would suggest otherwise.
I've asked for additional info/support here WRT the feeding.

Thing is, if he is hungry then he is not going to sleep well.

I have already said that if you are happy and if LO is happy with the routine of a CN followed by a long nap and a couple more CNs then there is no need to change anything, however I think you felt very much that LO needed more sleep and I do agree that linking CNs together to make a longer nap is more restorative than short napping.

[Lolly]

How much is he having in his bottles at the moment? Is it still 6oz as you posted in the first few posts? If it it, I would absolutely increase those bottles to 7 or even 8oz and see if that helps. Creations is right that there should be a bit left in a bottle at the end of a feed, you wouldn't stop a breastfed baby feeding so a bottle fed baby does need the chance to stop because they are full too.

With bottle fed babies, many do seem to take a lot of formula in 24 hours in the early months but it seems to get to a point where it doesn't increase and as they drop bottles it steadily decreases (and with solids later). My two were definitely taking more than 6oz a feed by 3 months. By 4 months they drop a bottle when moving to a 4 hour E so you need him to be taking more than 6oz a bottle by then.

HVs don't *always* have the best advice, I had some great ones and some I rolled my eyes at (in my head ) and came here for advice instead! It's up to you though, but I would increase the bottles and see how that goes.

Laura

[FPT23]

Hi!

Just to chime in a bit as I've been following along since I too have a chronic 45 min nappper at 12 weeks old.

IRT,  downing bottles atm, you may want to consider a growth spurt which happens around 3 months and then again at 4 months. Something to consider ...you can just add a little bit at a time and see if it makes a difference? Especially if you are considering extending his E more, it makes sense to me that he might be a tad more hungrier than he was when being fed sooner, wdyt?

Also, I agree with Creations in that you should maybe follow your babies lead and if 45 minute naps and one long one, work for you- then have at it! ....if he's seemingly happy all day, he must be getting enough. I do have to agree that 2 longer naps are more restorative, and works better with a "schedule" and A times, sometimes this is also simply developmental. As creations said, you can definitely help and put in the time it takes to teach baby, and it will work... But you do what best suits you

I too am on 45 min naps and only 1 long lunch nap too! Maybe this is all "normal" ...I'm not expecting long naps anyway until closer to 5.5-6 months. I would like to slowly work on drifting off on his own and remove props but with a toddler around too, I just go with what works!

And the truth is, there is no "right" way really. We do what we can and in time it all adjusts. Just tune in to babies needs; some like long A times some are shorter. Some handle OT well, some are a disaster! kwim?

Still following and hope this helps a bit in letting u know that your not alone in the nap battles! and it seems very similar to my situation, so this could all just be part of it

Xoxo

[Sunnyday01]

Creations, thank you for all your advice, My next step is to try the first nap in the pram and see what happens although I have a feeling that sleep training is needed as the afternoon nap today was in Moses basket - he jolted at 35 minutes and cried upon wakings as he was still tired, couldn't get him back to sleep so picked him up cuddled him and put dummy in, got another 45 minutes!

He does well at night - pretty much 7-6 with a DF and NF so can't complaun too much. We seem to have resolved that night waking at 5 with the longer A time.

Lolly - he is on 7oz bottles every 3 hours, I've upped it recently as he started waking up 3 hours after dream feed so think that was his growth spurt but left it on 7oz. He doesn't always cry at 3 hours for food - I have a feeling if we could get longer naps he would go longer between feeds. I have thought that once we push 4 hours I'll probably need to up it to 8oz.

Agree on the HV advice - she is a lovely katy but doesn't believe in the BW so I just don't mention it now!

FPT23 - Thanks for your message - it's nice to know I'm not alone. I've been getting really stressed out by the short naps snd the fact he usbt conforming to the 'routine' as set out in the book, but as DH says our LO hadn't read the book and so he may just be happy doing what he is doing and as he gets older he will sleep longer!

[FPT23]

Your very welcome!!

I think the book is a great guide but unless you strictly and specifically followed since day one, your expectations have to be more flexible mine too! I found BW with my first around 5-6 months and he took awhile up get it together. Having known now what I do, it's a good guide and I parent my new LO keeping in mind my future goal which is to eventually teach I.S ...in its respectful time. Having two it's a bit more difficult but I do know that in the upcoming months I would prefer to teach him sooner than later than w/ my first. Naps are so tricky and even if you have good ones, they'll eventually mess up somewhere, yk? I think it's only sane to accept that these naps will sort themselves out a bit later but as Creations has said, there is a lot you can do now but you must be very consistent and take the time.

I hope everything sorts itself out for you- I know it will... For both of us ...try some of these tips Creations suggested?! Let me know how it works out... I'll be following

[creations]

I would increase the bottles right away if it was me.
If he then looks like he isn't hungry at 3hrs you could go a bit longer between.

Have a think about how you want to move forward with regards to routine and independent sleeping.
For what it's worth my DS never had a routine that was written in a book but we followed BW methods and EASY routine from 4.5 weeks.  The routines in the books are only guidance to show examples, they are not schedules like some baby books lay out. BW is all about respect for your LO, listening to your LO and finding what works for baby and family.