What to do with the 5am NW

[Lindsay27]

Curious to know what you ladies think I should do about these NF - they are really beginning to impact her daytime feeding.

2 nights ago she had a 6oz bottle before bed (this is a full feed for her) but then woke at 12:30am - I fed her but she only took 3oz, so she obviously wasn't that hungry.  She woke again at 4:15am so I fed her again and again she only took 3oz.  When she woke for the day at 7:15am she refused to eat anything and I only managed to get 2oz into her before nap time.

Today she woke for her NF at 3:30am, took a full 6oz bottle.  We had a hard time getting her back to sleep (I think it was around 5am) so she slept later this morning and woke at 8am.  Again I was only able to get her to take 2oz before her nap.

I fully believe she still needs a NF but what to do if it means she basically doesn't eat anything when she wakes in the morning?  Reduce her NF bottles?  I don't think I had to do that with DS until he was like 8 months!

[lily_layne]

I fully believe she still needs a NF but what to do if it means she basically doesn't eat anything when she wakes in the morning?  Reduce her NF bottles?

Do you think that would help with the NW? Is she just too busy exploring the world in the morning to want to stop and eat?
 
Sorry, I have limited bottle experience so I may not be much help. I find it interesting that it changes your view when you can see exactly how much your LO eats during a feed. With nursing, it's all just a guess based on behavior so it's sometimes easier to roll with it when LO doesn't have a great feed because you never really know how much they took! I would really feel the need to get on top of it if I knew LO was only taking 2 oz!

[Lindsay27]

I have to take her into her room, blinds closed, door shut to feed her...she's too distracted otherwise.  But even with that her first bottle of the day is always awful, 3oz this morning at 7am after a 1am NF.  Surely she should be hungry!? Anyway, I may post on the bottle feeding board about that. 

She's been in her crib the last few nights which is going well, only problem is often when she wakes she doesn't cry, she just plays in her crib so I have no idea what time she's woken up.  Makes naps tricky because I really need to watch the clock with her and I can't since I don't know what time she woke.  This morning I woke at 5:45am and checked the monitor and their she was rolling around and sucking on her lovey . I suspect she woke at around 5:30am since that's been her norm - 1am and 5/5:30am.

Anyway, we are just really taking it day by day, that's all I can do for now thought it is frustrating that her 1am NW/NF has not started to push back at all, it's just kind of odd.  I almost wonder if that is a habitual waking too?  It is usually +/- 30mins but she never seems really hungry then.

[lily_layne]

She sounds a lot like my DD with the waking quietly. My mom and MIL would never believe me that DD was awake because she was always so quiet - I had to show them the video monitor to convince them that she could be awake without making a sound. She also needed well timed naps so I get how tricky it can be. Eventually I figured out how long DD would play quietly before crying/chatting and then I could figure out her actual wake up time from there (she usually went 45m-1h).

It is pretty normal for 4 month olds to have a NW around 12/1 and not really be hungry. It's a developmental thing. That said, both of mine woke for a NF around 1-2 for aaaaaaaaaaaaaaages. It never really got later, they just eventually dropped it.

[Lindsay27]

Omg what is happening!? She has woken every hour tonight!

She had a ton of wakings in the early part of the night then and then did a stretch from 11pm-12:45am at which point I fed her and put her back down at 1:15 and then after that she has woken every hour to the minute...literally to the minute...2:16, 3:16, 4:16, 5:16. 

The only thing I can think of is the last 3 days she has refused any nap after 3:30pm.  I haven't been able to resettle her pm nap if she's woken for it early nor have I been able to get her down for a CN, so she's has long A times to BT.  But really this is insane.  I don't know what has happened, up until 3.5 months she slept from 7pm-3/4am fed and went back to sleep until 7.  Now we get 2 regular NW at 1am and 5am and now this crazy night.  I don't understand what is going on.  Ugh, I am so tired.

[lily_layne]

That is a truly horrible night! I remember those all too well (and the foggy day that follows). I would suspect discomfort over OT with waking like that. Does she have a cold coming on? Ear infection? A bug bite? (I know it's early in the season but DS had a bite last year that led to a night like what you described.)

[Lindsay27]

I honest to goodness don't know what's going on.  Last night she woke 5-6 times between BT and 11pm and then finally settled, woke briefly at 1am and then ate at 3am.  Tonight same thing, it is 10:30pm and she's already been up 5 times.  Her days have been fantastic, happy, napping great, eating well, no illness or anything, but now these crazy NW?

I know NW in the early part of the night is usually OT but like I said she's had decent naps...usually 1.5hr each in the morning (sometimes the morning is 1.45) and afternoon and a late afternoon/early evening CN.  I'm honestly completely stumped as to why this is happening.

Any ideas?

[FPT23]

Oh my that's rough! Not looking fwd to the 4mth again! Positive vibes your way!! Hope this resolves soon!!

How is she when she's waking at these times? Crying right off the bat or babbling/fussing? You say her days are great (hurray for that! It's always one or the other though, isn't it?! Sigh) ..so could it be UT? Maybe A time push in her schedule? Is she nearing 5 months?

Just random thoughts...

Hope it gets better soon! Xoxo!!

[Lindsay27]

Her A times are about 2.15hr, sometimes her second A is a bit longer if she's had a good morning nap.  That said I'm finding it hard to keep her first A time up because she's so tired from her rough nights.  This morning she was completely hysterical after a 2hr A time so I didn't have much choice but to put her down.  I find in general she does seem to be a bit on the lower side of A times and a little HSN.

I don't think she's UT (but really, what the heck do I know at this point?)...she's typically taking 2 x 1.5hr naps and a 30-45min CN which I think is normal for her age?  And that said her naps have only really gotten more consistent/good since her nights went to pot.

She just seems really restless and unable to settle in the early evening.  My only other thought is she is still swaddled so maybe that is affecting her?  But at the same time she does tend to really like the swaddle - the other day for her nap she fell asleep as I was swaddling her.  It really is her cue for sleep.  And the other night she was really restless and I re-did her swaddle and then she settled.  She does seem to want to sleep on her side though which is difficult swaddled.  We've tried to wean it twice and it was a complete and utter disaster both times.

[FPT23]

Awww such a tough time I'm sorry!! I just had a brutal night myself.... 
Hopefully your getting some much needed rest!!!

Well, you said you've ruled out pain? Could maybe teething be a factor, perhaps? If she still needs the swaddle I wouldn't remove it yet then! If it's not broke ....why do you think the swaddle is affecting her?

I'm sorry I'm not of much help ....

Maybe it's developmental as she sorts her day sleep now? They don't call it the 4 month regression for nothing

Hopefully it all sorts itself out VERY  soon!!! <3 xoxo!

[lily_layne]

More (((hugs))). She sounds a lot like DS in regard to sleep needs. Do you think an earlier BT would help? DS's nights started to get goofy and on my mom's advice, I brought BT a bit earlier and it did help. Since he was already getting more sleep than DD I didn't think he needed a longer night but he did. That said, it does sound a lot like when DS had an ear infection (that I missed for quite a while) - good naps and awful nights.

[Lindsay27]

Her naps yesterday were mega long and while I would normally say that's a recipe for UT, she was still shattered by BT, and today she seemed to want to feed closer to 3hrs than 4, so maybe a little growth spurt or something? Or maybe she was a little under the weather yesterday hence the long naps.  Who knows!

Routine wise I think we are okay, her BT is generally 7 but it floats +/- 30 mins based on whatever time she wakes up from her last nap.  Generally though she's not up later than 7 (she's like her mother and likes to be in bed early!) and lately we've had more 6:30s.  Today was decent, naps were 1.15hr, 45min, 1.45hr and 7pm BT and so far no wakings and its 10pm! . So, not really sure what was going on as I don't think it's a routine issue, but hopefully it continues to improve

[lily_layne]

Vibes for continued improvement~~~

[Lindsay27]

Ugh this bloody 5am waking, I want to bang my head into a wall.  She had her NF at 1am so with with 1am NW always comes the 5am one, which I can't for the life figure out.  If she wakes at any other time for her NF we don't get the 5am one   It's gotten more complicated as for the last month DH has been off work so I was normally able to get her back down and she'd sleep until 7ish, but now with DH up and showering etc. I couldn't get her back to sleep so the day started at 5:30am.  Before DH took this time off and was up for work at 6ish she was sleeping until 3/4am so was in a deep sleep when he got up so it was never an issue. 

It feels like the only way to fix the 5am NW is to fix the 1am one, and I don't even know if that's possible.  I know she needs a NF but now when I feed her at 1 she doesn't even take a full bottle, and there are plenty of days where she can sleep longer.  It's just so random so I know there is nothing I can do, just frustrating.

[Lindsay27]

Sorry for my moaning lol.  The other thing is, last night when I went to get her at 1am she had rolled back to tummy while swaddled and got stuck, so I need to wean that ASAP.  So I am just going to go cry in corner and accept that sleep is gone forever lol.  She loves the swaddle!