What to do with the 5am NW

[Lindsay27]

I don't mind her being OT, she can handle it fairly well, but sometimes it gives us those early NW from BT to about 11pm and it can be every hour.  That wasn't the case last night thank goodness, she actually slept from 7pm (probably a bit earlier) to 4:45am, fed and back down at 5:15am, but when I woke at 6 and I checked the monitor she was awake just rolling around in her crib.  Can't complain about the night though! It seems like no matter what her days are like, good solid naps or not, the EW happens no matter what.  I actually kind of thought it wouldn't happen today since she went back down at 5:15am.  Doesn't matter anyway because DS was up at 5:45am...what is with these two!? Lol!

I am kind of aiming for 2 decent naps and 1 CN. So yesterday was actually really good - 1.20/1.50/30 - our first nap is the most consistent so I am not messing with that.  She has a decent first nap no matter OT or UT.  The other 2 fluctuate and are more prone to OT/UT scenarios. 

Today we have to go out and about as both kids desperately need clothes so I've put her down for the first nap and she's already been down a little over an hour, and the rest of the day is going to be car/stroller so no expectations for today.

[FPT23]

So happy to hear things are looking up!!

I assume the swaddling issue passed too?

[Lindsay27]

Yes she's completely unswaddled and just sleeps in a regular sleep sac.  She did fantastic, it was about a week to wean.  I had tried twice before and it was clear she wasn't ready but this time there were absolutely no issues.

[FPT23]

Well that's great! I might need you when it's time to wean myself

Aaaaaand how to lengthen these pesky naps haha!

Well I'm glad things are looking up

[Lindsay27]

This post isn't really about NW anymore so it you want me to throw it somewhere else let me know.

This EW is just really wreaking havoc on us and I'm not sure what to do from here.  The problem is if she has a good nap day then we could probably drop the CN...if we didn't have this bloody EW! I can't drop the CN because her naps are too early in the day.  Plus, with good naps and a CN she ends up having UT NW.  Here was yesterday:

WU 6am
Nap 8:30-10
Nap 12:30-2:20
CN 4:45-5:15
BT 7:15

She then had a NW at 12:30am which I resettled, 3am where I fed and then it took me nearly 1.5hrs to get back to sleep...she was all chatty and happy so clearly UT, then up for the day at 5:45.

I really don't think her A times are unreasonable for her age, but we need to be starting naps later in the day than 8:30 in the morning.  Her nights are better on days she hasn't napped as well and is more on the OT side...but if I start capping naps then I am moving BT forward which I think only perpetuates the EW.  In fact, it really doesn't make a difference she has an EW no matter what,  good night, bad night, good naps, bad naps...EW. 

I don't know, the whole day needs to shift forward by an hour and I don't know how to get that to happen since nothing appears to make a difference.   These EWs have been going on well over a month now, I clearly have no ideas lol

[FPT23]

EW are so horrible. As I've mentioned before... I haaaaaate them too. Grrrr....

And there's absolutely no resettling at the ew? Is she upset? Or can you leave her and then go get her at a more reasonable WU time... So you don't accustom her that 5am is a time to start the day, yk? If she's safe in her cot and all, can you leave her to it?

Well, I know you say her A times are reasonable and your day looks awesome! (Wish I had days like yours still haha!) ....but if you look at her daytime sleep, she's getting about 4 hours. That's quite a bit don't you think? Typically between 4-6 months 3 hours of day sleep plus 10-12 hours at night is average. She well may need to have more A pushed and get that CN out of the way soon? It's always a long process...

But just another suggestion. I'm sure she's not ready at all for the transition. She needs longer A times and she's not short napping which would suggest a push in A time and a sign of 3-2 usually... But she just might be getting to much day sleep? Just another suggestion that we haven't brought up just yet. She has a long afternoon nap... 2 hours almost... Maybe pushing that A to that CN can help push BT to maybe 7:30/7:45?

Hugs!

[Lindsay27]

Yes I realize in that particular day she had too much day sleep, and I know we are definitely in th 3-2, but it is just nearly impossible to get rid of the CN when her 2nd naps ends at 2pm.  Also, every day obviously doesn't look like that, yesterday she did 1.5+30+30 (so 2.5hrs of day sleep) and still EW, it just doesn't seem to make a difference.  I do often just leave her to it but she doesn't go back to sleep.

I'm not sure there is anything I can do until her A's increase to 3ish hours.  We just pushed to 2.5 and she's doing well with that so I don't want to push her too much too fast since I think this is an appropriate A time for her age.  I'm sure over the next few weeks she'll increase to close to 3hrs.  We will just try to ride it out for now. 

[Martini~]

Have you thought of cutting the first nap and letting her sleep longer on the second one. I did it in 3:2 transition as DS was not ready for 2 naps and 3 was too much sleep for him. Than you can eliminate catnap and go back to 2 longish nap.

[Lindsay27]

Hmmmm no I hadn't thought of that.  I guess I haven't messed with the first nap because it is our best and guaranteed good nap of the day...she does 1.5-1.45hr with no resettling so I'd be afraid to mess with that!  The second nap I usually have to resettle, and more times than not she goes back down, but sometimes she doesn't...like yesterday.  And actually yesterday was 1.5+30+30 and her WU was 6.15am this morning which is an improvement...so maybe that is the way to go?

[trimbler]

What do you do for daylight savings? You may well be right when you say you just need to shift her day by an hour. At this age we've done that slowly, ie aim to push later by 15mins over three days, and repeat, until you're there. So to start with I tried to get LO up later than usual, even if it meant a little fussing in the cot after the initial WU. Then go for first nap 15mins later (or 10, if less brave!), expecting a 30min OT nap, but attempting to resettle that, even if it takes a while. Muddle through the rest of the day and hope that things start to shift

[FPT23]

Hi!
Sorry well I was just going off the schedule you gave me and it seemed like another suggestion to add that you could consider

Well I suggested a push in A times a couple weeks back  and the amount of day sleep-- perhaps you should try and pick one and stick with it for a bit and see if there are changes? maybe work on pushing out those A times until the CN is out of the way? If you don't like the idea of capping the nap either, well then try your hardest to resettle the second?

Best wishes! Soon it will pass hopefully sooner than later! Hugs! EWs suck!

[Lindsay27]

We had a 2 nap day today and no CN...it was a looooong A to bed but she made it.  Both naps were good so I think if we did the CN it would have definitely pushed us into too much sleep territory.

We have been pushing A times, I think a week or so ago we were at 2.15 and now we are at 2.5hrs so we are moving in the right direction

Today was:

WU 6:15
Nap 8:50-10:45
Nap 1:20-3:20
BT 6:30

We will see what happens!  For daylight savings I honestly don't do anything lol,  after about a week I find it just sorts itself out and I just put the kids to bed at their regular time. I did push her first A this morning, she normally struggles even getting to 2.15 but since it is her most consistent nap and she generally naps well at this time no matter if she is OT, we ended up doing slightly over 2.5hrs.  I think if I can get that first nap to 9am even we might be headed in the right direction.

[FPT23]

Sooooo great to hear!!

Yes generally I've seen 3-2 go something like naps around 9am and 1pm. I'm sure you'll be there before you know it!

Good luck!! I can't wait for 2 naps a day   

[Lindsay27]

Well I'm never doing that again.  This morning she was up at 5am on the dot and I tried for 45mins to resettle her with no luck, after also being up with her 3 times in the night.  Ughhhhh.  I hate this transition so much and it is a constant cycle of EBTs/EWs that apparently only get worse with OT. So never mind a 9am nap...today it will be a 7:30am nap.  I mean...we are just so far off where we need to be.  Anyway, this post has absolutely nothing to constructive to say, I'm just exhausted.

[FPT23]

Many hugs I'm so sorry! That's so tough!

Well, I think it's best maybe to try to stick with it for a few more days, wdyt? She's going to be OT no matter what and you will need to push anyway, yk?

I think during these transitions it's going to be this way- I remember them well. I was desperate myself w/ my first with all the EWs mostly. So I understand. It's hard! I remember a wonderful mom on here told me the same- you have to just go for it and adjust them to it regardless! It will come with some interruptions but it will pass. She's going to probably ew anyway, and nw as this goes on.

Keep consistent and try for at least a week to push her. She's OT anyway yk? Keep compensating with EBTs and trying to AP a CN or resettle for longer naps. Hang in there