Author Topic: Does shush pat teach to self soothe? (Read 3861 times)

crazyyear · « **on:** April 20, 2016, 08:57:12 am »

Hi,
I'm trying to teach my 5 month old to self soothe as she's unable to move through sleep cycles during day time naps.
Will shush pat teach this or is pick up put down a better method?
Thanks!!!!

weaver · « **Reply #1 on:** April 20, 2016, 17:07:55 pm »

The first thing you need to do is look at your routine and make sure baby is tired enough but not too tired at nap time. Sh-pat certainly promotes independent sleep. PU/PD should only be used as a last resort, once routine has been sorted. Also, are there any medical issues interfering with sleep?

crazyyear · « **Reply #2 on:** April 20, 2016, 18:36:41 pm »

Thanks weaver, routine as follows:
7.00 feed
08.50/9.00 nap, 30 mins-60 mins while I walk to school
11.00 feed
11.30/12.00 nap in crib, shush pat to settle and to help through sleep cycles
2.30 feed
3.30/4.00 nap 30 mins usually out and about in car or buggy
5.00 small feed
6.30 bed time feed and wind down
7.00 bed
11.00 dream feed

She had reflux but is under control with medication.
I've recently took the dummy away, I believe this has got her into habit of waking after sleep cycles. She's doing great at night since but day time sleep is still a problem.
I have tried A time of 1.30-2 hours which is normal for her age.

Any other help very welcome!

Buntybear · « **Reply #3 on:** April 20, 2016, 18:59:05 pm »

Hi - average A time at 5 months is 2-2.5 hours. Could you try pushing the A times a bit? Soon (around 6/7 months) you will approach the 3-2 nap dropping and will be looking at A times of 3 hours.

crazyyear · « **Reply #4 on:** April 20, 2016, 21:06:15 pm »

Thanks Buntybear! I guess I was also putting 30 minute wake up to over tired but perhaps she's under tired of I'm putting her down too early? I try to watch for tired signals but all I get from her is she goes quiet and I'm taking that as a tired signal, if she gets over tired all hell can break loose so I've been acting quick to avoid that happening.
Maybe tomorrow I'll try push the A time out, I haven't gone over 2 hours so what would you suggest to push to?
I've tried everything else so worth a shot!!!!

Buntybear · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2016, 20:45:43 pm »

Hi - well normally you would push by the A time by 15 mins to avoid an OT meltdown, especially if she is prone to OT. Watching for OT signs can be hard. As they need an A time push, often dictated by short naps or refusals then you need to push through the sleepy signs.

How has it been today?

crazyyear · « **Reply #6 on:** April 22, 2016, 12:21:51 pm »

I've gone to 2 hours today, she was rubbing her eyes and getting fussy.
Still no sign of going past 30 mins.
Feeling really discouraged, there's so many tears!
Would you suggest to keep pushing A time by 15 mins every day to see if that helps?

weaver · « **Reply #7 on:** April 22, 2016, 15:16:15 pm »

Not every day. Hold the pattern for three days or longer if you think it's working. Sorry short post, pop back later if you have any other questions

Buntybear · « **Reply #8 on:** April 22, 2016, 17:21:54 pm »

Hi yes agree with Anne - sorry I should have said that in my other post. Push by 15 mins for a few days until she adjusts and then see if she can go another 15 mins if needs be. x

crazyyear · « **Reply #9 on:** April 22, 2016, 21:45:19 pm »

Thank you both, I will push to 2.15 for next 3 days and see how she does!

Buntybear · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2016, 20:29:24 pm »

Good Luck -let us know how you get on x

crazyyear · « **Reply #11 on:** April 28, 2016, 18:44:25 pm »

Hi Buntybear and Anne, just wanted to update you. I've increased the A time to 2.15 for the last week and it's made such an improvement....who knew 15 mins would make such a difference. She's settling quicker and transitioning through cycles easier! I also have confidence in knowing she is tired and ready for a nap instead of rushing her to sleep before she gets over tired.
I have another question, she's 5 months exactly by calendar date this week but she was 2 weeks early so corrected date would be 4.5 months-does baby whisperer go by actual birth date or due date regarding A times. I'm just wondering should I try increase by anther 15 mins?
Thanks for your advise!!!

creations · « **Reply #12 on:** April 28, 2016, 18:52:46 pm »

Quote from: crazyyear on April 28, 2016, 18:44:25 pm

she was 2 weeks early so corrected date would be 4.5 months-does baby whisperer go by actual birth date or due date regarding A times.

I don't think there is an official 'rule' as to actual or adjusted ages (although there is some guidance for prem and low birth weight LOs) and it's likely because all the guidance routines and times are just that, guidance, everyone adapts the times to what suits their own LO's needs so if you LO needs a bit more than guidance times that's fine.
I do know though that mine, 2 weeks overdue, had his 4 months regression at 3.5 months, got back on track at 5.5 rather than 6 months and often seemed like he ought to be 2 weeks older than he was. As time goes on though the difference in due dates and actual ages lessens so I really wouldn't worry about it.

weaver · « **Reply #13 on:** April 28, 2016, 20:31:09 pm »

hey that's great news! always good to hear positive results, and, yes it is totally crazy how much different 15 mins can make.

Creations has given you a great reply above, BW means listening to your baby so watch him and you''ll get your answer. We'll always be happy to help you work it out!

Buntybear · « **Reply #14 on:** April 29, 2016, 15:06:11 pm »

Thanks for coming back to update us - and so happy it is a positive one!

If things have improved I would stick with it for now. Keep that extra 15 mins uproar sleeve for when you need it!

Albeit when we were down to one nap - once I had got my head around Olly and his sleeping habits when he needed a tweak then I was able to add 15 mins on his A time and then shave it off the end of the nap. Just something to keep in mind

crazyyear · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2016, 13:13:43 pm »

So we've been sticking with A time of 2.15 and she's settling quicker and showing tired signs so I've no doubt it's the right amount.
However she is still struggling to transition through sleep cycles, I'm going straight to her and doing shush pat which always ends with PU/PD and I'm doing this for another half hour and end up putting her in the stroller and pushing her back to sleep.
I'm only working on one nap a day, have been doing this for 3 weeks and haven't got a nap longer than 30 mins yet.
Is this a developmental age thing do you believe? Feel myself wishing this time away and hoping she'll eventually learn to get the rest she needs!

creations · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2016, 17:43:30 pm »

It sounds to me like she could do with another A time increase to help with that resettle. It is a developmental phase where short naps are common but often it's a time when we mums tend not to increase the A time as rapidly as is needed (I did it too!), I would think you'd see some results after 3 weeks of trying for this first nap.

Not sure if you're trying a W2S at the same time? This is useful as it helps to avoid LO totally waking which means they can be easier to get back to sleep and to teach to transition into another sleep cycle. If you get 30 mins naps then I's suggest going in at 20 mins and beginning your shush/pat (or adapted) to sooth her right trough the transition and all the way into deep sleep, this could be another 20 mins. I know it sounds like spending almost the whole time in her room patting but it can be a useful tool for sleep training.

Buntybear · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2016, 19:55:27 pm »

Ah yes - W2S and HTTJ helped us with the transitions too

And yes another increase in A time might just help her to be tired enough not to rouse so much at the transition

x

crazyyear · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2016, 20:41:15 pm »

Thank you both, do you suggest w2s and httj once or every time they transition during a nap?
On w2s-do I stir her and then start shush pat to resettle? Or wait for her to start stirring then resettle?
On HTTJ- do you hold the arms down until after the jolt?
I will increase A time to 2.30 for next few days....
As always thanks for the advise!!!!
X

Buntybear · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2016, 21:20:16 pm »

I am sure there was a FAQ on this but I can't find it now!

W2S - TBH I would just watch closely and see if she needs shh/pat.

HTTj - that is what you do!

Do you know if she is jolting herself awake? If not the just try W2S.

creations · « **Reply #20 on:** May 02, 2016, 07:22:46 am »

Here's the FAQ
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
Have a look at naps option 1 please. This method of W2S is the best start for your LO, the post also covers holding through the jolts.
As I said above you will need to go in and begin your shush/pat at 20 mins into the nap (not 30 as the FAQ says, 30 is too late for your LO), continue to shush/pat right through the transition, and an additional 10-20 mins until she reaches deep sleep (it is usually 20 but with a shorter sleep cycle it may be only 10). The method involves beginning before LO is awake however you can adapt this if you find it more useful to hover by her with a hand ready to begin but then to not begin until she starts to stir then that is fine, all methods are adapted to what works best for your LO.

You can use W2S several times in one nap (I did this with mine when he dropped to one nap, I had to go in every 20 min to W2S but I only had to stay 2 mins, I had it down to a fine art through that tricky phase!) but this can mean staying a very long time in the dark room. Some parents are fine with this, perhaps just one nap per day and have enough energy to keep at it through the nap. Some are not fine, it can be quite depressing sitting in a dark room and getting no Y time or even a cup of tea so if you want to do it just once in the nap that's fine too, if it worked you'd still increase the nap from 30 mins to more like 60 which is still a step in the right direction in sleep training

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Author Topic: Does shush pat teach to self soothe? (Read 3861 times)