Desperate, how shall I retrain my 9mo to SS?

[Fifilottie]

Hello,

I am at the end of my tether. I spent months sleep training my DS, started with shh pat and never had to do PU/Pd. Got to a point where he could be left to SS, was great. However he has gone through milestones, illnesses and holidays that have set him back but I have managed to get him back on track. This isn't working now though. He is 9mo and for the past three weeks I have had to rock him to sleep. This started as he was ill, then we went on holiday and didn't like his travel cot and now he screams if I leave the room. I tried walk in, walk out with great success last week but now he has decided he wants to play in his cot. So, I left him to play and then after 10 mins he starts screaming and refuses to settle with walk in, walk out. He starts to try out chewing his thumb(always has been his method) but gives up and starts screaming, sits up and then stands up, screams then goes quiet and babbles, scream again. It is becoming impossible. So, where do I go from here? I have  to be very strict with the timings of his sleeps due to a school run and I think they are right as he always seems to be nearly nodding off during pre nap routine, I almost have to stir him before popping him down. Our routine is as follows:

5am wake up for a feed. He does feed back to sleep with a cuddle after, he always has done. I need him to wake up later than 5  for the rest of the day to go to plan.
WU 6am
E bf for a few minutes if that.
A 6 until 9.30 breakfast at 7.30 then School run(return at 9)
S 9.30( but when I try sleep training he can take an hour to get to sleep and this plays havoc with the rest of the day)
A 10.15 lunch at 11.30
E 13.00 7 oz of formula. . This calms him down ready to wind down but doesn't make him sleep)
S 13.20 ( if I try out sleep training he will again take ages to get to sleep and then I must wake him for a school run)
A 14.50 then school run, must be at school by 15.15
Tea at 16.30
18.00 7oz of formula
BT anytime between 18.30 and 19.00( if I try sleep training he may take over an hour). . This makes no difference to NW or WU
NW often 35 mins after BT. I can simply pick him up and in two mins he is back to sleep in my arms.
Sometimes he doesn't wake up then but will usually at about 11 pm if not. Again one cuddle and he is back to sleep. I have stopped feeding in the night.

Where do I go from here? He is going to the childminders for two days a week starting June and there is no way he will sleep there if he cannot self settle so I may always have an OT baby which will make everything worse. She also only gives the babys one nap a day. He will be 11 months then and am really sure he will not be ready for this. Please advise. I keep giving up with AP because of my time restrictions.

Thank you x

[becj86]

Are you purposely having a short nap in the AM? I wonder if something like this might work better for you?
6 - WU
10 - nap (should be longer than 45min, because A time is higher
11:30 - WU (though he may sleep longer)
3:30 - catnap (cap at 45min unless its naturally shorter from school run or whatever else happens in the PM)
4:15 - WU
7 - BT

I think given he's been an independent sleeper, once you increase his A time, it may well help because at the moment, you're working really hard to get him to sleep when he's not properly tired. Does he fall asleep more quickly for that PM nap? I think you're putting him down when he's UT then he's fighting sleep, becoming OT in the process of missing the sleep window.

What are you doing when you're trying to ST? What is he doing when you're trying to ST?

Which two days will he be going to CM and for how long during the day? He may well be able to cope with a short day with one nap twice a week.

I think those NWs are OT - not surprising given he's not having a long nap anywhere in the day.

[Fifilottie]

Hi and thank you for your reply, veer much appreciated and I do know what you mean about that short idle of the day activity time.

Sometimes he will take a morning nap of an hour but yet I am concerned by the short activity time after this in order to get him to sleep before the school run so have capped this. Not going in and completely waking him up but making noises around him. As your routine suggests if he takes a long morning nap the afternoon one is shorter so can be pushed later. I guess I am trying to get him used to one long after noon nap for the childminders as they tend to sleep from one until 3. He will be there Thursdays and Fridays from 7.15 until 5 or 6(my poor baby ). I guess that is why I am trying my best to make that morning nap not matter so much. The childminder says that he could take a morning nap in the pram while they are out and about but I know my curious boy might not manage that(won't sleep in pram)

I have always had trouble getting my son to take a catnap after 3 o clock. Even from four months when he really needed it. He adores DD and just does not want to sleep when he knows he can play with her.  We also go on little excursions after the school run(tires them out) and it would be a shame to stop that. I hope I am not starting to sound like I 'm pushing away all solutions. It just is a bit tricky but you can probably understand why I feel a bit lost on what to do. I am starting to think things will get better as he is older and does only need one nap a day and that I will have to try what I can until that point.

I have tried walk in, walk out for sleep training as he was once an independent sleeper. I do a pre nap routine, a few lullabys he hears every time. .these make him show a lot of tired cues and then I turn the white noise on and cuddle for a bit. Prior to this he will have his feed. He used to be a distracted feeder and I have always had trouble feeding him anytime other than prenap .he will only feed to sleep at 5 In the morning though . .strange.

I then put him down, he cries, stands up, I lay him down and shh and stroke him, he sucks his thumb and then I leave the room. I wait a minute until he cries again and this process repeats. Sometimes when I shh him he will push my hand away, sometimes he goes into settling mode but mostly he just isn't getting into it and wants to stand up. This can go on for about fifteen minutes or more until he gives up and plays. at that point I Rock him to sleep and give up. Sounds silly I know but I am conscious of time. I am happy to stay in the room and shhh etc... But the same thing just happened after trying.

Also, his afternoon nap is usually an hour and a half. He goes longer than this at a weekend, two hours sometimes but I have to wake him before three on week days to do the school run so for some reason he still takes this long nap after a a 3 hr 20 activity time. Maybe because his morning nap is short, I am not sure though.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, just wanted to get everything down. A little confusing I know argh. On a better note I managed to put him down for bed before he was complete
Y asleep tonight and he did fall asleep with shhh stroke. That was after four hours activity time(interesting hey:)).

Thank you for any help you can give me x x

[becj86]

Well, if you want to do a short AM/long PM nap routine in your transition, you're probably stuck with the AP for the morning nap if its going to be purposely UT. An UT baby cannot be expected to just magically sleep.

Does he have to wake at 6 or is that just when he does wake? 7hr A time is almost certainly going to be too much at 11 months however this gets sliced. I see what you're doing though, BTDT It could well be worth getting her to give him a big snack at 11ish and put him down for his nap at 12 when she does lunch with the other kids so he's got a better chance of sleeping there.

You could push that CN later if you could go out and do something fun once you've picked up DD then let him nap on the way home after? He really will need practice having a long A time somewhere in the day - you're just looking for a little 30-45min naps to get you through to a reasonable BT, so an OT 30min nap will do just fine too...

[Fifilottie]

Yes, I agree that an UT baby will not magically sleep and that is probably key to the troubles I am having with self settling. Interestingly he did not wake at 5 in the morning for a feed this morning. He woke at 5.40 and played in his cot until 5.50(he cries if he wakes normally suggesting hunger ??). I then fed him but he wasn't that interested to be honest. I the. Arrived home to do pre nap stuff  and he accidently fell asleep on me, no rocking nothin just turned his head and slept. I transferred not too gently to see what would happen. He banged his feet, opened his eyes and fell back to sleep. So that was after 3 hrs and 35 mins activity. I wonder if he woke earlier and I don't know or woke in the night for a bit and got back to sleep, hence tiredness. Mine is a tricky situation though.

Maybe an undertired first nap with help settling and capping this quite short and a long afternoon one might work. I will just meet more problems as time goes on I guess. Interestingly three weeks ago I also did a bit of a walk in, walk out to get him back on track and it  worked within a day. Then two days later it all went haywire. Is it possible for a baby's awake time just to suddenly increase like that. I guess so. I might cap this morning nap after 30 mins and then put him down again  at 1.20 so at least that is 3 and a half hours awake and see what happens. I guess average awake time for this age is four hours though.  Am I right?

Thank you for all your help bec. . My situation isn't an easy one to crack x

[becj86]

He is also at the classic age for separation anxiety, so could be partly that, yk?

Average by this age is such a wide range that its not really helpful, unfortunately.

I did a long morning A, capped nap at 20min and had a miserable baby for 1.5--2hr then got a glorious long nap when DS was around 9 or 10 months just before we dropped to one nap. There are so many options that really you just have to decide your priorities.

[Fifilottie]

Thank you,
Yes you are right. It is tricky. You crack it and then they change I think it will be a lot of trial and error and playing about and around the school run until he is ready for 1 nap. I will accept that( just hope it is soon) at least I am managing to shh him only at BT so that is good. I think it is a bit of seperation anxiety too. Argh, I will keep,trying and trying x