Author Topic: Catnapping is back and seems here to stay (Read 2845 times)

Julie Kenwell · « **on:** May 01, 2016, 09:29:14 am »

Hi there,

I had posted previously about my baby catnapping at around one month old. Reducing the awake time really helped but I think it impacted on his night sleep as he would wake not even for a feed.
I had mentioned before my first baby had LSN and I suspect this one is the same!
At just under 3 months he has only been getting between 13 - 14 hrs sleep in every 24hrs?!
His naps have all become short. For a while I could have got one good two hr nap a day with the rest all short by that seems to be a thing of he past.
He seems to yawn around 1.10mins so I put him down with a dummy.
His night sleep isn't too bad. Does 10-10.5 hrs with one night feed and sometimes wakes around 6/6.30 but takes his dummy to go back to sleep.
I know my first boy was a catnapper until around 5 months but I'm wondering am I doing something wrong this time round that his naps are short and he isn't getting a lot of sleep each day?

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2016, 13:45:35 pm »

Hi
How long does he take to go to sleep? I.e. What is his total A time? (Time you put him down + time to fall asleep) I'm wondering if he might be a bit under tired at 1hr10 A time if he's like my DD and falls asleep quickly. If he takes 15-20 mins to fall asleep, like my DS used to, then that A tune would be right and we might need to look at something else.

How short are the naps?

Is he falling asleep easily or fighting it?

How is he when he wakes? Happy or crying?

As you found with your first, some babies do just take short naps around this age but there are sometimes things you can do to give them the best opportunity for a longer nap.

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2016, 15:30:55 pm »

When he wakes he looks up at me and smiles! The naps could be anything from 30 - 45, some times 40. He can take a while to go over, yes, sometimes up to 15 minutes. Today he didn't yawn until around 1.25 for his first nap which was 30 mins (again woke smiling and lay in his Moses basket for a while v quiet). Then the same for second nap, around 1.30 awake time and then he slept 45 mins.
My first boy stopped catnapping at five months after I did pu/pd at 4 months.
Do u think the dummy is the problem here?
It doesn't seem to be an issue at night.
There have been days this week I have had to give him six naps just so he is rested for bed!!!

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2016, 18:11:13 pm »

I should add that he woke very unhappy from his last nap today. Woke at 40 mins. I gave him a bottle and he started falling asleep as he fed for about 10 mins. I put him is his cot and after a while he fell asleep again for around 10 mins and woke happy again just before 7pm. His bed time is 9. I'm so confused by all of it. I have stuck to his 9pm bedtime as my older boys bedtime is 830. It means I can get the eldest down and then out the youngest down foe the night. But I'm wondering if his morning nap is short does it mean he wants to do a longer night? Could it also explain why I am having to add a sixth nap in some days? Maybe I should be putting him to bed earlier.
My only worry about this is if I put him to bed earlier will he wake more at night?!

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2016, 19:25:30 pm »

Hmmm, could you post his day in EASY format for me to get a better idea of how it goes e.g.
Wake up: 7am
E: 7.15
A: 1hr30
S: 8.30-9.15 etc

Happy wake ups from short naps are either UT or right amount of sleep but just a naturally/developmentally short napper
Sad wake ups from short naps are usually OT.

Most LOs this age can only manage a 12hr day, so if BT is 9pm, you'd be looking to start his day around 9am. Or if he naturally wakes earlier, he might need an earlier bedtime. Sometimes LOs actually sleep better with an earlier night because they aren't OT at bedtime.

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2016, 20:12:05 pm »

Ok, maybe that's where I'm going wrong then. His bedtime is 9 and he is up either 7/7 30.
I will keep an eye on his day tomoro and post it.

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2016, 11:54:29 am »

Hey so he had just over 10hrs last night. Woke at 2am but took his dummy and went down again and then woke at 5.30 again but again took his dummy. He stirred around 6.45 which would have been 10hrs, I gave him his dummy and he dosed til 7. That's the first night he has taken no night feeds, although he did still wake.
So today so far looks like this

WU 7am and eat
A until 8.10 when he started yawning
S 8.20 jolted at 8.55 but didn't wake until just after 9

E 9.15
A until 10.15 when he yawned
S 10.25 again jolted 10 mins later but didn't wake until just before 11.15

E shortly after waking - he was hungry!
A (yawned at 12.25 and I waited for another yawn to ensure this was tired cue. It didn't come so I put him down at 12.35 and he went over at 12.40 so I suspect this nap will be an OT 30 mins.

That's as far as we are today one 40min nap, one 45min and now likely a 30 min.
I should add he was happy after each nap, contented himself after his feeds by playing in his wee activity gym.
His feeds are v close together, but this is what it is like every day. He usually looks for it when he wakes, not by crying but making a sucking movement with his mouth. And j always fear that if I don't give him the feed then he will be hungry later and wend up drifting off on the bottle and that will mess the routine such as it is, even more!
Any advice you can offer is greatly appreciated. I will keep an eye on the rest of the day and post how it goes.x

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2016, 14:38:25 pm »

So the next nap was a 40 min one. He woke up happy at 1.20 and was v content.
Took a feed again andvthen yawned at 2.35.
This is where it went horribly wrong!
I put him down with his dummy, he didn't sleep til close on 2.55 and woke just before 3.10. I gave him his dummy because even by his standards this seemed far too short, he took about ten mins to go over again and then woke grumpy at 3.30?!?!

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2016, 15:50:45 pm »

Hugs, Short naps are heavy going.

Sounds like that last one was UT/OT- not tired enough to sleep when he went down so took ages to drop off then OT by the time he fell asleep.

1.20-30 would be average A time for his age & it looks like he's falling asleep easily at 1.20/25 but OT by 1.35 so I *think* your A time is about right, although you could try gently pushing it to 1hr30 tomorrow and see what happened?

The other thing I'm wondering is what his activity level is like when awake? I.e. What is he doing/playing with? Just wondering whether under-stimulation could be giving you the short naps and UT/OT issue?

As for feeds - if he's showing hunger cues I think you're right to feed him. I don't know much about bottle feeding but if he's going all night with no feed maybe he needs more frequent ones than average in the day?

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2016, 16:16:31 pm »

I have to be honest I don't know very much about bottlefeeding either!
My oldest was breastfed but I had a horrible virus when the second was born and had to supplement. He ended up preferring formula to my milk and I had no choice but to go with it, but that's a whole other story.
I think you're right about the ut/ot as he ended up sleeping for another hour after I tried resettling but woke up and seemed to want to go down again! He seems cranky, I gave him a bottle and he started dozing so I put him down again with his dummy. So hes sleeping again now (5.10).
I don't know what time to put him to bed at now.
I want him to have a good night so he can be rested for tomoro if I try pushing his A time.
I did notice one day at the start of last week he showed no tired signs for his first nap til around 1.30 and he ended up sleeping two hrs. The rest of the naps that day were all 30 mins though?

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2016, 16:19:02 pm »

Sorry, in terms of activity, I out hin on hos play mat that has music, lights and toys dangling from it and I also spend time talking to him or give him tummy time, he is very strong and has been rolling over to his back since he was three weeks old!

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2016, 18:29:37 pm »

What did you do for BT in the end?

Sounds like he's getting a good level of stimulation in his A time ...are you doing a wind down before naps too?

I think it helps to try to work out the pattern that suits your baby- I.e. A time and how much activity and wind down he needs, then you can run with that. My DS needed a long WD to nap (30mins) I did the same with my DD and she wouldn't go to sleep as she was UT and only needs a 10 min WD. It sounds like you're doing that by following his cues.

Sometimes you do all the things you can to give the opportunity for a long nap, and they still take a short one because they're in a short napping phase but you're putting all th right things in place so they'll start taking longer naps when they're ready/out of that phase.

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2016, 19:27:00 pm »

He fell asleep at 8 so fingers crossed he does ok tonight. He woke from the last nap about 6.15/6.20.
I don't really do much of a wind down for naps tbh. He yawns, I put him in his Moses basket downstairs, put on white noise and give him his dummy.
I wanted to keep it simple so other people could replicate it if they were looking after him but maybe I should do more?
I still put him down for naps downstairs as I felt id be running up and downstairs all day with his catnapping and since I have another wee boy, its easier!
I'm kind of waiting for the naps to get better and then I can put him up stairs for his naps (wishful thinking in my part!)
Do u think the dummy is adding to the problem here? I.e. He is drifting off to his naps earlier than he really should and waking from the nap depending on it?

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2016, 08:49:32 am »

I'm probably becoming a complete pest but....
His first nap today has not gone well!
He ended up doing about 11.5 hrs last night albeit broken, waking at 1, 3 and around 6.15 and up for the day at around 7 30.
He yawned at about 8.50 so I put him down and he fought the nap, he hasn't done that before!
Eventually went over at 9.20.
Has he clocked up too much sleep at night now?!

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2016, 13:40:24 pm »

Not a pest at all!
My own DD has just woken (early!) from her nap so I can't reply properly now but will this evening.
If you get a chance to post rest of your day, I'll take a look this eve.

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #15 on:** May 03, 2016, 13:59:00 pm »

Ok, its not been a good day here, three 30 min naps. He fought the first two which as I say hasn't happened before.
For all the naps so far though he hasn't been grumpy. I imagine the next one he will though!
I will post the day in a wee while. I just feel so disheartened that he is a catnapper just like his brother. I feel like a bit of a failure. I hear of all these babies who are doing three great naps a day.... not mine!

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #16 on:** May 03, 2016, 14:55:10 pm »

Hey so here is how the day has gone:

Wake Up 7.30 and eat
Yawning at 8.50 so pd.
Seemed to fight nap
Sleep at 9.20!!!

Woke up at 9.50 ( 30mins )
Eat
Yawned 11.05
Sleep 11.25
Also fought this one
Woke 1130
Slept again at 1140
Up 12.10
Eat
Activity
Sleep 1.30ish, no fighting this one
Up at 2
Eat
Activity
Yawned 3.20 didn't sleep til 3.50!!

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2016, 18:52:49 pm »

Huge hugs. Please do not think that you are a failure in any way because your little boy is taking short naps. It sounds like you are doing everything you can to observe and respond to him.
Please remember that short naps can be developmental, related to developmental leaps or the baby's personality I.e. Just the stage he's at or who he is rather than anything you are doiMy "right" or "wrong". FWIW my DS was a chronic short napper until 6mo, I can understand your frustration & feeling disheartened.

Here's a few things to consider:

How many weeks old is he? Could he be going through a developmental leap?

Do you know what his BW personality is? This can help understand what he needs for naps:
The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz"
The Five Types - Everyday Moments
Touchy and spirited babies tend to need more careful balancing of stimulation and wind down than other types.

Might he need a longer or shorter wind down?
What does a good wind down consist of (Includes 4S ritual)

Fighting naps and getting into an UT/OT pattern could be linked to A time; activity vs wind down; personality or a developmental phase- the challenge is trying to work out which it is!

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2016, 20:19:39 pm »

He is 11 weeks today.
Oddly enough he was in such good form despite all his naps being OT today. He didn't fall asleep for his lay nap until two hrs after he had previously woken. And he was genuinely happy and content both before the nap and after?!
From the quiz he is coming up as mostly textbook, which I suppose would make sense with the length of time it can take for him to go over to sleep for naps.
So I'm a bit stumped as to where to go from here.
Do you think the dummy is a bit of an issue?

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2016, 20:52:06 pm »

Do you think he's waking because dummy has fallen out? Does he go back to sleep if you replace his dummy?

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2016, 21:09:35 pm »

A lot of the time the dummy is still in when he wakes and then it falls out! And no 9/10 he has no interest in going over to sleep again when I reinsert!
I was sure he would want to go over again for at least one nap today given that they were all OT but no, he just looked up at me and smiled or started talking!
That is what hes been like, he will wake and just be v quiet in his Moses basket for a while and then decide he wants out or fed.
Even when he took his bottle today, unlike yesterday, he wasnt dozing off as he fed either.
Hes a funny one!

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2016, 06:25:35 am »

Ok- slept on this & have a couple of suggestions:

I don't think it's the dummy as he's not waking because of losing it.

I wonder if it is worth choosing an A time and just sticking with it for a day or 2, then going up or down if you feel it is too much or too little? I would go for something between 1hr20-30 but he's early 3mo so no more than that to start with. I'd also try a slightly longer WD, so 10-15min before you want him to be asleep, take him to a quiet place (where he's napping?) and do a quiet activity and some WD- see link I posted above.

It will be a bit of trial and error to see what A tone suits and how much WD he needs. BW advises to "watch your baby not the clock" but sometimes the click helps as a guide when baby's cues are unclear.

Only other thing I wondered is whether he is waking from hunger?
How much does he take per feed & is he draining bottle? Any signs of discomfort? Could wind or reflux be disturbing him?

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2016, 06:48:00 am »

He has definitely been spitting up a lot more recently, long after his feeds when he is on his playmat. Even sometimes when I put him down in the cot he will spit up a bit, not much though.
Her taking on average 4oz per feed, I suppose because his feeds are close together, and in most cases in the last week or so they have been drained.
Maybe I should put him down for his naps upstairs in his crib instead of in the living room where my 3yo is playing?
The short naps still happen on days my older boy isn't here anyway though.
So I start wd as soon as I see yawning or before I anticipate the yawning?
I'm really starting to believe he is lsn like his brother. Even when his naps were good, he had a really long a time before bedtime of around three hours - nothing I did would get him convinced it was bedtime! That was in the early weeks and I put it down to witching hour but he wasn't cranky or annoyed, he just stayed awake til 9.
I took it as him setting his own bedtime so that's why I stuck to it so rigidly.
He woke at 12 last night and refused to go back to sleep without a bottle. Then at 4 but I gave him his dummy. He stirred again at 6 which he seems to be doing quite often and then at 7 he took a bottle and went back over to sleep.
Maybe i should be feeding him twice at night and he wants to do a longer night?x

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2016, 19:06:23 pm »

It is possible that he is LSN, especially as it sounds like he is happy and coping with short naps. If he is, then I think you might be looking for him falling asleep easily as a sign of having found his current A time, rather than length of nap.

Wow- he's napping in the room your 3yo is playing in too? I am impressed at his ability to drop off to sleep like that. MyDD is way too nosey to fall asleep when her 3yo brother is around and my DS was/still is "touchy" so needed a good long wind down and total darkness to sleep. That said p, I have a friend who could put her little girl down on a mat in the middle of a baby yoga class and she would go to sleep. Thinking about it though, the nap refusal yesterday might be because he is tired but wants to stay and keep watching his big brother! And he might not resettle because he wakes and wants to join in fun again!

It really is all trial and error- you could try taking him upstairs for a nap and following the 4s routine and see if it makes a difference. I do think as babies get older they do get to a point that they need to wind down and be in a sleep environment but only you know your baby and whether he might be at that point now or not.

For timing when to start the WD, that all depends on your baby and is trial and error again (sorry). My touchy DS needed to start WD before he yawned, if we waited for tired signs, it was too late.
You said yourDS is more like a textbook baby though. My DD is too and if I try a WD before she yawns or eye rubs, she'll be UT...so if he's a textbook baby, maybe try taking him upstairs for a short WD when he shows his tired signs?

I'll see if I can find another pair of eyes re feeds

Xxx

Julie Kenwell · « **Reply #24 on:** May 04, 2016, 20:21:45 pm »

Well we actually had an ok-wish day today. His first nap was a fail, fought it like he had yesterday and it ended up being 35 mins long (is 35 min nap even a thing?!) but the next nap was 50/55mins long after an A time of 1 hr 30. The nap after that was 1 hr 50 after an A time of around 1 hr 45. But his last nap was really short as we had to go out and I just didn't get his A time right at all.
Its definitely a balance of getting the night time sleep right and the A time during the day right for him.
It looks like he wants a bit more A time than Av for his age.
Even when he was in my tummy I could feel he was an active baby, so this should come as no surprise to me!!
I just want to say thank you so much for your help and guidance up to this point.
No doubt I will be back on again soon! Xxx

Lolly · « **Reply #25 on:** May 04, 2016, 20:27:30 pm »

With regard to feeds, at 3 months 4oz is on the lower side of volume for a formula fed baby and if he is draining his bottles then you need to add more to them. If you can get him to take bigger feeds then he should be able to go 3 hours between feeds and you can work towards 4 hourly feeds over the next month.

With a bottle feed there should be a bit left in the bottle so that you know he has stopped because he is full and not just because the bottle is empty. If he has a nice full tummy it can help with settling and sleeping through a nap.

If you need some more thoughts on the feeds let me know, or post over on the bottle feeding board

Laura

Scottishmummy · « **Reply #26 on:** May 04, 2016, 20:51:56 pm »

Hooray for longer naps today! Fingers crossed that pattern continues.

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Author Topic: Catnapping is back and seems here to stay (Read 2845 times)