11 month old over or under tired with short naps

[amanda55]

Hello, I have struggled since 2months with DS's naps, he always stirs at 30-35mins and either wakes fully (and more often than not poos!) or eyes open, moves about for a few mins and goes back to sleep.  Not sure if hes overtired or undertired (very rarely have a 45min nap which I understand to be undertired).

He has only had 2 30min naps all day today. First woke ok (poo), second woke crying (another poo).  He also poos a lot in cot, had a good couple of weeks before crawling where stopped doing it during naps a few weeks ago but since crawling seems to interested in things to have a poo and wakes early from naps with a poo!

Easy today:

E: 7:15 wake and 70z milk, 8:30 toast and water.
S: 10:45 - 11:15 (poo)
E: 12 solids, 2pm 70z milk
S: 3:10-3:40 (poo) woke crying. Was a bit late putting down as friends round with their twins so bit hectic.
E: 4:30 solids, 6:20 9oz milk
S: 7:10pm asleep. took ages to go thrashing head and was upset when first put down, calmed and went off on own but took 35mins.

Self settles for all naps and nightsleep with no props.

Help was really stressed today with crap naps, try not to get worked up about them but tried different wake times and still no correlation.

Yesterday was a real random day, had 1hr 40 nap in morn (awake for longer as kept getting stuck on tummy in cot and had to keep rolling onto back so up for nearly 4hrs as 40mins faffing in cot upset) then after being awake for only 3hrs, fell asleep in car on way back from grandparents for 20mins, doesn't usually easily sleep in car!

I usually aim for 3-3.5 in morn then 3.5 in aft and again 3-3.5 before bed.

[amanda55]

Just to say he only started crawling 2.5 weeks ago so don't know if overtired as just used to sit there and play now he's crawling round constantly of under tired as been on approx same wake times for a couple of months now. Any help much appreciated as I'm not getting wound up with napping lark as go back to work in a week and grandparent will be looking after him so want to feel confident in what I ask them to do nap wise!

[creations]

Hi there
Sounds like your LO is working towards the 2-1, dropping down to one nap per day.  This journey can take quite some time for some LOs who might retain two naps for a good while but having one longer and one shorter (capped) nap, whilst others are better moving more rapidly to the single nap.

he always stirs at 30-35mins and either wakes fully (and more often than not poos!) or eyes open, moves about for a few mins and goes back to sleep.  Not sure if hes overtired or undertired (very rarely have a 45min nap which I understand to be undertired).

Waking and being awake for a little while before going back to sleep is fine, it shows he can self settle and transition from one cycle to another. It may be a sign of being a bit UT or it can just be a developmental phase. Tracy did mention LOs waking bid nap and eventually goign back to sleep, mine sometimes spent ages awake when he was supposed to be napping but he was fine to just gaze so I left him to it and he'd eventually nod off.
The 30/35 min nap length could be his sleep cycle. Usually it is 40 or 45 mins long but I have seen LOs with 30 min cycles.  Either way, by around 12 months the sleep cycle lengthens as it matures and is more like an adults sleep cycle so it's going to change and the 'rule' of 45 min naps being UT is not going to be something to rely on at this age (or for LOs with a 30 min cycle).

The random day you had with the longer A time, longer nap and then a short CN in the car actually sounds good.  I'd suggest extending the first A time to see if you can get a longer nap and start the process of working towards one nap.  Sometimes those little CNs of 20 mins or so are hard to get if LO won't go down in the cot but it's not the end of the world if you APOP the CN as it will eventually be dropped, grandparents might even enjoy having a hold for the nap if they are caring for LO!

Here's a really rough guide as to how your day might look with a longer A time and longer nap
WU 7
A 4hr
S 11-12.30
A 3.5hr
S 4-4.20/30
A 3hr (shorter because it comes after a short CN)
BT 7

The first A time might get a bit longer over the coming weeks/months until a point where LO might be able to do a 5hr A (or a bit  more) and move to one nap.
hth

[amanda55]

Thanks for the reply.  I would love just one long nap a day but cant guarantee that as does usually poo then doesn't go back.

Today after only 2 30min naps yesterday and a while to go to sleep at night was awake early.

W: 6:20, left till nearly 7 but didn't go back, looked like trying and hadn't pooed for a change so wasn't that! 7, 8oz milk, 8:20 toast, yogurt and water.
S: 9:55-11:05 (poo)
12:15 solids, 1:45 6oz milk.
S: 2:55-3.25 (30mins, woke crying) left for 20mins as went quiet a few times so thought gone back then when got upset again went in and had pooed again! Was upset then for a bit after got him up! doesn't show any tired signs that I can see!

I wish I was in a situation where I could cap a nap but lucky if they are longer than 30 mins!

[creations]

By capped it can mean making sure one nap does not go over 30 mins, or reducing it to 20 or less as the journey towards one nap progresses.
The first nap there looks promising at 1hr 10. If you could extend the A time before it you might see it lengthen, and he might not poo until he wakes.  I imagine he wakes then poos rather than pooing in his sleep then waking unhappy about it.

[amanda55]

Thank you that makes sense as I do leave him to see if will go back every time wakes.  Would I need to feed something inbetween somewhere if keeping him up for 4hrs and want him to have hour and half as will have milk when wakes then breakfast an hour later is it too long to go from there till dinner when he wakes?

[creations]

At this age you'd be looking at 3 solid meals, 2 good milk feeds and an additional 2 milk or solids snacks.
For most this means WU milk, breakfast, snack (or milk), lunch, snack (or milk) dinner, BT milk and to fit them in where you can.  Chances are you can fit is a WU milk, breakfast and snack before the nap with lunch after. Another snack between lunch and nap, and dinner after the nap.

hth

[amanda55]

Ok, sounds good, today was up for 3hr 45 and had a 1hr 20min nap in morn then up for 3hr 45 again and woke after 30mins crying (no poo).
Hadn't pooed at first nap either so good day today. Do you think was up too long between naps and that's why upset?

[creations]

Possibly. it's hard to know on just one day though. See how it goes for a few days and if there is any pattern to the sleeps or his mood.