Help with 2-1 transition gone wrong

[ginger428]

Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #27

Start on page 8 (newest to oldest order) or even further back, and you'll see how some of us coped with the 2-1.

[JennVanessa1083]

Wow thank you so much!

I love the the bullet points and the plan. I can definitely work on this for the next week or two.

So quick question: if I were to go the long am nap route, I gradually push it out until I fade out the pm CN right? At what point do you stop pushing out the am?

[ginger428]

For me it was when DS reached appropriate A for his age and desired nap time.
Ex:
14mo
Wu 6:00
Nap 12:00
Bt 7:00

18mo
Wu 6:00/6:30
Nap 12:30
Bt 7:30/8:00

24 mo (now)
Wu 6:00/6:30
Nap 1:00
Bt 8:00/8:30
And we're in really early stages of 1-0 naps! Eek!

Totally different from some of the other 23/24 mo toddlers here. Some are transitioning 2-1 now!

[JennVanessa1083]

Wow this is interesting...if you don't mind me asking what was your EASY at 11 months?

Is 2 hours total day sleep low for his age? I'm finding it hard to fit everything in to at most get a 13 hour day 

[ginger428]

It was all over the place and I don't quite remember if it was 11 mo.  Hence why I sent you to read previous posts for 2-1. Something like
wu 5:30/6:00, cn 15 min cn around 9:15, nap Around 12:30, bt around 6:30. Then it went to nap at 11:00/11:30, cn around 4 or 5. BUT, ds was totally sleeping independently, also why we suggest you focus on that.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ok thank you for that! I did read the thread and it was helpful 

[Scottishmummy]

There are also sample routines here:

chronological EASY samples, 10-12 months

Whatever you do, I think you really need to choose a schedule (short am/ long pm or vice versa) and stick with it for at least 5 days to see if it works.  It looks like there is still chopping and changing.

Also stick with A times & capped nap lengths for at least a couple of days before increasing A times by 10-15mins or capping nap further by 10-15mins.

He is close to a year so you could try a set nap approach for a week to take off pressure of thinking about routine & give you headspace to focus on night weaning and independant sleep.

[JennVanessa1083]

Thanks SM!

At this point set naps sound appealing but he never took to it too well before. Observing him lately and logging makes me feel like he's not tired enough for naps then ends up OT at the end of the day. I'm currently doing long am short pm since nights look better this way. So this is where I'm starting:

WU 8 am
S 11:30-1 pm (hopefully)
S 5-5:45 pm
BT 8:45 pm

I may need to increase the first A but I'll see in a couple of days.

[Shiv52]

Jenn did you not find before that long am led to afternoon nap resistance?

[JennVanessa1083]

Yes but I'm finding he goes down better with around a 4 hr A after a longer am nap. I tried the short am/long pm route and get short pm naps then lots of OT by bedtime.  I don't know...I figure I'll try this and hope that it sticks this time around I'm getting tons of resistance for the am nap.

[Shiv52]

I see!!!

I do think you need to just stick at it for a run of days. I would make sure as well to maintain a consistent wake up time even if he's had a bad night. M

I see you have BFing Thread for weaning night feeds. Have you started this yet?  I weaned night feeds by not feeding until 1am and you have to keep going until they are asleep even if it hits 1am. First two nights were awful but then she got the idea. I then moved the time by an hour every few days until we were done. My lovely friend had a LO who didn't respond to that and in the end her DH took over at nights. First night she cried on and off for hours but daddy was there reassuring etc. Second night again several hours of protesting but third night only a bit of protesting then just resettle no issues. Sometimes it needs to not be mummy as they expect milk. My friend had to promise her DH she wouldn't interfere as it would mean all the crying was for nothing. She said she cried in her room but they needed to sort the NFs out.

Also bear in mind to keep going toward IS. Honestly at this age props cause huge issues and even a perfect routine will be rubbish if a baby can't self settle. My concern is you will end up thinking this is a routine issue when actually its an IS issue and routines are much easier to work out when you have a baby who can get themselves to sleep.

[JennVanessa1083]

Whew ok I'm prepared for some tears. He actually doesn't feed until around 1-2 am now then wakes up again 3-4 hours later for another feed then awake again 2 hours later for the day. So I can definitely start pushing the first night feed in hopes of consolidating the first and second NF then eliminating the Second NF.

I am also continuing the process of IS which has been interesting to say the least. Funny things is he used to be a independent sleeper until his top two teeth were coming in. From then on it's been one thing after another 

Today I got a long am nap at 3.5 (i did have to resettle) so we will see how the next few days go)

[JennVanessa1083]

Quick question: the last few days DS has been waking up wired wanted to crawl around and stand after only a 10 hour night. Is this generally UT or OT?

I have been doing this for the last 4 days:

WU
A 3.5
Nap 1 (long am; usually broken at different times but ends up between 1:15-1:30 depending on the night sleep)
A 4 hrs
Nap 2: 36-45 minutes
A 3.25
BT

I'm thinking of extending the first A then shortening the last one to 3.

[JennVanessa1083]

I need hand holding with doing the gradual withdrawal.

I finally put him down awake and he isn't going to sleep!! I put him down for 3.5 and it's not about 4 hours A. He is just starting to cry. Before it was playing around, babbling.

I don't know if I'm doing this right. I have my back turned to him. When and how do I comfort? Do I pick up?

Update: it was a disaster! He was screaming and crying plus the teething stuff definitely wore off which made matters worse. I tried comforting him in the crib but he was grabbing me and trying to pull himself up into my arms so I would lay him back down which he definitely didn't like.  I couldn't take it anymore as this was 45 minutes of this so I picked him up and tried to APOP but he was crying so hard that it took another 10 minutes to lull him to sleep. I felt terrible and broke don as I never let him cry like this before. I let him fuss around and he used to sometimes fuss then put himself to sleep. I don't know why he has forgotten.  Is there another way? Did I do something wrong? Maybe I should wait until his teeth finally come through?

[Scottishmummy]

I'm sorry it was so hard yesterday, how has today been?
GW should be a really gentle approach, I'm sorry yesterday was so upsetting for you and your DS

Could you describe how you're doing GW from start of wind down onwards? I sleep trained my DS with GW and it worked really well but we took tiny steps at a time.

In the very first stages I would hold him until almost asleep, put in the cot and hold him in cot until asleep.
After a couple of days I put him in cot a little sooner and stopped holding when he was almost but not quite asleep.
Then gradually with putting him in cot a little sooner and letting go a little earlier, got to put him in cot relaxed but awake and just having my hand next to him.
Then standing next to cot
Standing behind cot
Standing at door
Standing outside door

As you can guess it was a slow process and took a few weeks to take all those steps...but was really effective for us and he has self settled for naps and nights ever since.

Have you read the GW part of this link?
Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)