Author Topic: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!  (Read 3395 times)

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Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2016, 19:21:14 pm »
That's all true but some LOs take  a bit longer to get up to 2hrs A time, and some like shorter A time at start of the day. Getting 2hrs at end of day suggest he's gradually transitioning to longer A times.

It's great that he's settling in the cot. I'd try the following to extend nap in the first place:
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

If that doesn't work then you might want to try pushing A times a bit more, as FPT23 suggests.
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Offline Gappyranks

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2016, 08:18:42 am »
Hi

He is 4 months this week. Still not found a method that works for us. I'm exhausted he is exhausted and all I want tp do is him to lie next to me and fall asleep.  So tough. 

Offline FPT23

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2016, 15:13:24 pm »
I'm so sorry :(

Many hugs!!

What has been happening?
Fabi






Offline Gappyranks

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2016, 19:37:34 pm »
His feeds have reduced and he's not interested in feeding that much. Also the naps have become a battle so I have had him in the sling again even in the sling he wakes after 50 mins.

I'm tried todau to follow his lead more than clock watching as it's become an unhealthy obsession of mine. This is how our day went

5.00 awake feed back to sleep
7.30 awake
Play feed
9.15 nap
9.45 awake very cranky
Play feed
11.45 roughly nap
12.25 awake
Play feed- very cranky
13.30 nap sling went for a walk
14.30 play feed
16.45 nap while nursing he doesn't do this he hardly ever relaxes while nursing- chats, and sometimes gets annoyed with my flow
17.15 awake
18.15 start night routine bath massage
18.45 feed- wasn't interested just wanted to comfort suck
19.15- 20.00 slept but woke a lot and needed to rock him back
Will wake for 2 more feeds at night and I will have tp rock him back to sleep

Your help would be great xxx

Offline FPT23

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2016, 03:57:38 am »
Hi there, so sorry your still struggling with naps. It is very common however.. I'm struggling myself ;) hang in there! They are tough! Between 0-3 months they work on extending their night hours. 3-6 they work on their day sleep and extending naps. Even then, after that you have to handle nap transitions and teething... So much fun isn't it ;) many hugs and know your not alone!

First thing I see is his nap lengths. He took a 30 min first nap which to me normally means over tired. Perhaps he personally does prefer a shorter A time in the morning. Many do, and longer A times twds the afternoons (assuming good naps of course as well through out the day) Have you tried to extend the nap? When he wakes, go in and soothe him back to sleep to continue napping/help through the sleep cycle? I do suggest trying that when/if you can.

I also noticed that after the short 30 min nap, his A time was 2 hours. After short naps such as your morning one, he will definitely be OT. It makes sense that his next A time will need to be reduced and a low key A time might be helpful to prevent too much OS with an already cranky OT baby.

As far as the naps while nursing and/or as you mentioned "wasn't interested" in nursing, could very well be from all the OT from his day. If it is unlike him to nap at the breast, he must've been tired, yk? I know my baby, when he's OT, takes in less of a feed bc he's so tired. He doesn't eat as efficiently. That is why BW suggests the EAS routine... Normally after a baby wakes it is when they are most active or "up" so they clearly eat best than say, when they are tired and falling asleep on the breast/bottle, kwim?

I would suggest that you cut back your A times after these short naps and try to help resettle if possible to lengthen the naps. For example, he went from 14:30-16:45 A time ...that's a 2 hr 15 min A time which for a barely 4 month old, is too long of awake time. Especially considering all the short naps of the day and the OT that was built, yk? Average A times for a 4mo is 1 hr 45- 2hrs; just keep in mind, after short naps you reduce the following A time to prevent too much OT. By the end of the day, A times may be cranky. It happens often though and it's hard, I know but before you know it, you'll be in a stage where you will be capping naps! ;)

For the next few days work on that and keep us posted! Many positive vibes your way! Xo!
Fabi






Offline Gappyranks

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2016, 15:15:26 pm »
Hi Guys,

just an update- still really struggling! feel awful for not knowing what my baby wants!

I am even considering a sleep consultant but this is money I dont really have.... but need something I can stick to and get the support.

I have been stretching his awake time but he still is not letting go.

- his cues are not obvious to me at all. when he does rub his eyes its usually too late and he would be on my shoulder when I’m starting to put him to sleep
- feeds are all over place
-very sensitive sleep- we have to tip toe around when he is sleeping
- fights naps ALOT. will start crying full on as soon as i start trying, looking around everywhere in the darken room. I have been doing PUPD and when its time to put down he starts crying straight away- arching his back and arms shaking in the air. Shh pat does not work on him
-I can’t do much, such as visit cafes or meet friends as he kicks off as he can’t get to sleep in his pushchair or in my arms. I do baby classes and have to leave straight after the class as he starts crying.
- wakes crying most of the time
- when he does go down for his nap which can take 1 hour these days he will nap 30 mins- 40 mins or yesterday after doing pupd for an hour he slept for 1.5 hours
- we have a great night time routine but still doesn’t go down without a battle. He wakes around 2-3 times at night for a feed, but does do down straight after a little feed. Does a long stretch 4 hours then its 3 hours and 2 hours.
- He has had the habit in the early days since he was 3 weeks sleeping in the sling while we paced around the house pating him, but we have reached our limit as we couldn’t even sit down!
- He likes being in the pushchair, but as soon as I think he gets tired he starts crying full on, i HAVE WALKED WITH HIM FOR 40 MINS CRYING! and he hasn’t ‘let go'
- he will sleep in the sling if I go for a walk, but now he wakes as he gets hot i think.
- his awake time he is very needy, requires me to entertain him or he starts fussing, I am aware there is a lot going on for him in this month and have heard of sleep regression but I want to help him through it.
- refuses the dummy
- when he does sleep he likes to have his face in the muslin- not sure why but I think its comforting.

I have become very sensitive and get very upset as well as angry as I am sick of obsessing over his sleep. I doubt myself for not knowing what my baby wants.

I would like to know while I’m sleep training can I still organise things to go with him to? like I have a baby sensory class on fridays at 11am, how does sleeping training work when you have to get on with life?

Before I go and pay £500 for a sleep consultant I would really really appreciate someone giving me advice and a plan for my now 19 week baby

Please help. x

Offline FPT23

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2016, 19:27:31 pm »
Hi and I'm so sorry for your struggles. Hugs!

How old is your LO now? Can you try and layout your EAS for us? See if there is something we can tweak or work on? :(

I don't know how you do things but personally, my approach second time around is a bit different. Maybe it can help ease you a bit for now. If I can't get DS2 to nap, and/or it takes more than 20 mins to nap him or resettle him... I stop. I also don't expect long naps for now at least until he's older... They can't handle much A time and sometimes it's not enough A time for a long nap as opposed to 8+ month old babies who have like 4hr A times and naturally are more tired. It really is a process. If you feel you need a sleep consultant, then do what you feel you need. I remember I felt the same with DS1 and the truth is, I found all the help I needed right here. I swear. The sleep will get better I promise you that much. If I'm having a bad nap day, I leave the house! No thanks. There are times I purposely avoid being at home so I don't focus on another nap ::) ....naps will go one day. The work will lessen! Many hugs and hang in there!

As far as sleep training and having plans-- maybe you can focus one solid week on removing any props baby may have and gently help her find another way to sleep/sleep independently. Will it be too much if you miss one class? Or even so, plan ahead before Friday comes around? ....sleep training is not as long and horrid as it may seem! He might surprise you. Why don't you layout a plan- start with working on his routine a bit better... Sometimes that's all it takes! :) ...if things haven't improved, point out your babies props... Paci, swaddle, rocking to sleep/movement, etc... Then you can work on weaning one thing at a time.

If he's fighting naps and your taking over an hour to nap- it can mean a lot of things. If you can please try to write your EASY and show us. Maybe one of us can help some :) as far as being "needy" when he's awake.. That too can mean different things. Maybe he needs extra stimulation or less! Maybe he's tired too. I know my LO when he seems that way, he's OT. I need to carry him and distract a lot! Again, try and post your day. The best you can.

Many hugs and I hope things get easier. It can be tricky sometimes but I promise it gets better! That's for sure-- but expect things to change when they do get better haha ::) the joys! Try not to focus so much on all of the sleep too. Short naps are common during this time. Hope this helps! Xoxoxoxo
Fabi






Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2016, 20:28:54 pm »
Offering support too, and echoing everything FPT23 said. Your LO sounds very similar to how my DS was and I beat myself up about his sleep...& did pay for a sleep consultant..who told me just to accept the short naps and try not to stress too much about them!

Your DS sounds similar to mine as a baby. Do you think he might be a "touchy" baby?
The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz"

Touchy babies can get overstimulated really easily and then struggle to wind down for naps.  They need a really good wind down routine.
One of the things that made a difference for my DS was a longer wind down before naps & bed, so starting quiet activities 30 min before a nap and an hour before bed, then doing sleep wind down 15 mins before nap.  He also needed a very dark room (black out blind and curtains) & white noise.
If he likes the muslin, would a comforter in his cot help too?

Please look after yourself & be kind to yourself too, all this shall pass. I didn't believe this when people said it to me, but it did and DS is a good sleeper now (but still v grumpy when tired!)
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2016, 05:51:40 am »
Another thought ...

My DS' tired signs were also unreliable- by the time he yawned it was too late. I had to go by the clock & judge "right" A time by him settling fairly quickly (within 15-20mins) rather than nap length as he also took short naps until he was 6 or 7mo. I tried everything it had to just go with it in the end and do a routine with 4 short naps. However, spending time getting his WD and A times right worked in the end as he did start settling more easily extending his naps when he got older.
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"Textbook" DD



Offline Gappyranks

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2016, 08:01:13 am »
Thank you for his support. Means so much.

I do also think I need to go by the clock as his tired signs are very unreliable. 

It's difficult for me to do a EASY example as I have not really been doing this as his feeding has been all over the place.

He wakes at 6.30 but only fed an hour ago.
Then we play, change and I try to stretch his awake time to 2 hours. 20 mins before I take him to his room to unwind play relaxing music, gradually close the curtains,  then I walk and pat to him for 10 mins then I start pupd. At the moment I leave him for 9 minutes then gp back in pick up and calm him then try again. I carry on doing this for an hour and sometimes he won't sleep so ill try again once I see a to red sign or he gets cranky. If he sleeps it will be 40 mins
9.30 Then awake for 2 hours but sometimes he is even ok with 3 hours but I try to head out for his nap in the sling as he 11.30-12.30- would do 1.5 hours
2pm Awake and play then ill try for the most difficult afternoon nap again pupd for an hour.
4 pm nap attempt usually very short
5pm he cluster feeds a lot.
Depending if he slept in the afternoon I would start bedtime at 6. If he did sleep I start at 7.
Bed by 7-7.30
Wakes for feed at 12 goes straight back to sleep
Wakes for another feed at 3
Wakes for another feed at 5
Then up at 6.30

Sorry it's all over the place but I really try to fit 3 naps in.

I would love to get a suggestion of EASY I can follow. Xxx

Offline weaver

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2016, 10:28:13 am »
Hi there,
At the moment I leave him for 9 minutes then gp back in pick up and calm him then try again.
I'd be concerned about this - please don't watch the clock, listen to his cry. If he's crying with an 'I need you cry' then respond immediately, if he's just chatting to himself, then he's fine.  But watching the clock for a set number of minutes before responding is Controlled Crying and it is not something we support on BW.  Tracy said that 'crying is communication' so we listen and respond :)

Sorry you're having such a tough time.  Will come back later and see if I can help a bit more ((hugs)) for stress
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2016, 19:01:19 pm »
So you're usually getting 2 short naps (1st & 3rd) & a longer 2nd nap? That's actually a pretty good routine at that age and typical for some babies.

I notice you're using PUPD to get to sleep.  It seems to be taking a very long time to get him to settle.  I think you must both be getting wound up with an hr of PUPD. I wonder whether PUPD might be too stimulating for him, especially if he's a touchy one? Would he fall asleep if you continued patting or holding him but in the cot? (Sh-pat approach) That's what I had to do for my DS (with some APOP rocking thrown in at least in early months, I have to admit) & avoids the leaving to cry.

1st nap- you say you try to stretch him to 2hrs.  Do you think he's tired before then? Wondering whether he's OT for nap? 2hrs is at lower end of average for his age though, so other possibility is that he needs slightly longer for that first A, especially if he can go up to 3hrs later in the day.

3rd nap- He will soon be at the age he drops this, this might be why it's so hard to get it.  I think it's ok to APOP this one in the sling or however he will sleep easily as it's only a short CN to get to bed and will go soon anyway.

I think it's trying to untangle whether his not going to sleep is due to A times or support to sleep. The sleep consultant I saw suggested doing one-two days of all naps in the sling, just to get an idea of right A times.  A couple of days of sling naps won't make any long term difference to sleep training and gives you both a break. Once you get your A times, we can look at how best to teach him to settle independently

Xxx



"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline Gappyranks

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2016, 08:12:02 am »
Hi.

So I have realised my baby is a spirited 19 week boy. Sh pat really doesn't work for him. We had 3 out 4 success with pupd yesterday but I went up early and re all relaxed him and sang to him before I put him in his bed. However it's always a 40 min nap and he wakes up crying so he is still tired. I tried to carry on pupd but he wasn't having it and as soon he calmed and I put him down he would cry so it wasn't a success at all. How can I extend his naps?

He still really struggles to be awake for over 2 hours- he just starts crying and for the first time gave me a few tired cues.

Xx

Offline weaver

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2016, 12:00:32 pm »
It'd be really helpful if you could post the timings that go with what you describe above.
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline FPT23

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Re: Napping issues since 4 weeks now 15 weeks!!!
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2016, 16:23:22 pm »
Hii! As weaver mentioned, times would be great to list! As I had also mentioned, if you can, for the next few days jot down your easy. It can let us see more into the routine and we can try to throw some help your way! :) ....remember, A time is eyes open, eyes closed too.

If you have a spirited LO, then those tired signs can also mean he needs more stimulation and is bored! Or he could also be over stimulated as well! Sometimes at that age, tired signs can mean they need a change of scenery. If they get fussy sitting or laying in one spot, try switching his location or view. Maybe he wants moms attention too; try walking around the house with him talking etc.

Also, how long before the nap do you attempt PU/PD ? And how long is it lasting before it "works" ? It's possible that PU/PD is taking some time and getting him OT by the time he's down and settled/asleep, know what I mean? Keep that in mind ;) ..it can be extending his A time.

Please try your best to jot 1-2 days for us. Come back and let us have a peek! Hugs! Xoxo

:)
Fabi